Lets show some Old and Rare ones.

[BWT]

Thanks for the info Lee, now I don't have to wonder as much about it, couldn't get much info on Google

[LongBlade]

My pleasure Bill ... BTW - I forgot this as you alluded to it in your post of the knife - you referred to the pins looking like they were clipped off - I think they were hammered (perhaps the proper term is peened?) which was not unusual on the old knives - I don't think spun pins were used until the 1900s if I am not mistaken.

[BWT]

Thanks Lee

[Miller Bro's]

It sure does Dimitri, that is a good looking knife, and love the wharncliff blade I don't have any of that style yet but it sure does look good. I believe that is called a serpentine isn't it???

Thanks Bill!

Yes it is a serpentine pen knife.

[Miller Bro's]

Nice old rare one Dimitri ... Cool MOP wharncliffe in a shadow pattern ...

Tidmarsh is indeed a mystery in a sense and no doubt old and rare - Tweedale doesn't even have him listed and I think Tweedale did a pretty good job including lots of Sheffield makers with background (of course he may have missed a few despite him being pretty comprehensive) ... I have seen a few Tidmarsh patterns online - This percussion pistol knife is way too cool ... and if I understood the description for this one the percussion pistol actually did work ... Not my knife but here is the photo:

Tidmarsh Knife-Percussion Pistol.jpg

Thanks Lee!

I seen that pistol knife, it's so cool

I have another Tidmarsh knife but it is a worn out pruning knife.

[LongBlade]

Here's a pretty old and rare one that was gifted to me from my buddy Barry W - It's a little battered with a broken blade but I think it is a cool old rare stamp ... a cool old wharncliffe ( the master still has some snap ) with tortoise shell and a stamp that I can not find in any reference "Fletcher/Gloster" - which is on the tang that remains from the pen blade but there is no stamp on master (perhaps worn off). Now after some searching I did find that Gloster can be a shortened version for Gloucester England (near the Cotwalds and Wales) and I did read in an old reference that there were knives made in that area at least back in the 1500s - this knife is not from the 1500s but suggests perhaps it was made in that area at a later time (probably mid to later 1800s as a guess) - I can't find anything on Fletcher so it is a mystery for sure... I wanted to share it on this thread because of the stamp... Any ideas or knowledge would be great

[LongBlade]

Another old and rare one along with the one above - James GREEN & Co. - Pen & pocket knife manufacturers 50 Fargate Pigot's 1841 Sheffield Directory... This one was figured out a few years back after playing "Wheel of Fortune" with the few missing letters in stamp - Thanks to smiling-knife for figuring it out ... Some other experienced collectors think it even dates earlier than 1840 given the cow horn handles - it does have integrated liners and bolsters. Most likely it was a sheepsfoot blade. While it was repinned by somebody long ago it has cracking opening and closing snap and tight. No doubt this knife is an old soldier

[BWT]

That's nice Lee, just surviving all these years and still in working order, thanks for sharing

[LongBlade]

Thanks Bill ... There's just something about that knife despite being an old soldier that I find really appealing.... probably because it has had lots of use without serious abuse and just wear from a hard life - and no doubt, and like you said, still survives in working order after 180 years or more...

[djknife13]

Lee, those are really great old knives, but especially the James Green. Knives like that are what keep me digging for gold. ____Dave

[LongBlade]

Thanks Dave ... If only these "old soldiers" could talk as they say

[PA Knives]

I wanted to comment on the so-called Fletcher knife. I have always preached reading the knife and not stamp first. So if you look at the construction it does appear to be of English descent or is it?. Notice that the bolsters are not polished nickel! The pins are not flushed smooth with the bolster. This is more typical of German manufacturing. The handle material looks like celluloid, but closer inspection would be needed. It does look like it has shrunken a bit, but to be that old, it would be rare to not have been burned out. It has a designed shield, again not aligned with 150 year old knife. The wharncliff blade is well known Not sure of the length or what the back spring and liners are made of. That may tell more too. My guess and that is purely what I am doing at this time, it that it was made in Germany for import to USA and made to sound like an English made knife. Not unusual at all. I have written several articles that mention this old trick to get US buyers of lesser quality German knives. I would date it turn of the century but again, I would have to see it close up to make further remarks. My point is "read the knife" then the tang. Others may have additional revelations about its construction and style to make even better investigation.

[LongBlade]

I wanted to comment on the so-called Fletcher knife. I have always preached reading the knife and not stamp first. So if you look at the construction it does appear to be of English descent or is it?. Notice that the bolsters are not polished nickel! The pins are not flushed smooth with the bolster. This is more typical of German manufacturing. The handle material looks like celluloid, but closer inspection would be needed. It does look like it has shrunken a bit, but to be that old, it would be rare to not have been burned out. It has a designed shield, again not aligned with 150 year old knife. The wharncliff blade is well known Not sure of the length or what the back spring and liners are made of. That may tell more too. My guess and that is purely what I am doing at this time, it that it was made in Germany for import to USA and made to sound like an English made knife. Not unusual at all. I have written several articles that mention this old trick to get US buyers of lesser quality German knives. I would date it turn of the century but again, I would have to see it close up to make further remarks. My point is "read the knife" then the tang. Others may have additional revelations about its construction and style to make even better investigation.

Thanks David! I agree with you on the old adage - reading the knife and not the stamp - and did take that into account particularly based on a stamp not readily identified in any reference or search. The knife being of German descent has indeed crossed my mind and am well aware of the German phase of wanting to sound like it was made in England - so many examples of "XXX Bros" are classic German-made Sheffield "wannabes" ... Yes indeed the brass content of the bolsters is reminiscent of German-made but I can show you Sheffield made knives (as well as American) that have a fair amount of brass content as well. I think - right or wrong - I often associate the pins on German knives being iron (or steel) and they stick out like a sore thumb to me and that is not the case here ... However my pin remark is a generalization and not always the case - and multiple examples exist to the contrary (though I do not collect German-made knives sans a couple that fell in my lap). The pins not being flush can be due to use in the past - again seen that on heavily used knives both made here and in Sheffield. The handle material is not celluloid and is tortoise - and I can assure you of that as I took a close look at it in hand. I have also seen old tortoise have some slight shrinkage and it is probably due to poor storage over the years... The back springs are iron and liners are brass. I am not sure what you mean by the shield being designed? Do you mean specifically customized for this knife?? I am not leaning towards German-made but it is a possibility - one can not rule out any possibility at this point. Nonetheless it is still a mystery. BTW - the knife is 3" closed length.

[PA Knives]

Perhaps this research would be the answer you are looking for then. Yes then it must be English but not made by them, which as you know is typical of knives, very few were made by the name on the tang.


Fletchers, Gloucester, gunsmiths and sports dealers


Anthony Fletcher

Administrative / biographical background:
(Sources: notes by Claude and Anthony Fletcher; Tewkesbury parish registers; Gloucestershire trade directories; Gloucester diocesan probate records; 1851 census returns)

The firm's founder, Thomas Fletcher, had gunsmith's premises in Westgate Street, Gloucester, by 1829. His father, William, may have been one of the two gunsmiths by that name recorded in Tewkesbury in 1820 (Thomas was baptised at Tewkesbury on 3 January 1808); his younger brother, also named William, worked with him at Gloucester but later set up his own business. By 1842, a Gloucester trade directory lists Thomas Fletcher at 161 Westgate Street and William Fletcher at Cross Keys Lane.

After Thomas' death in 1858, his widow Elizabeth carried on the business until her own death in 1890, when she was described in a newspaper obituary as Gloucester's oldest business woman. Their son Frederick then took over until 1909, when he, too, was succeeded by his widow, Rose. By this time, gun production had virtually ceased and orders were being put out to Birmingham gunsmiths. Claude Fletcher took over at his mother's death in 1921; his own son, Anthony, joined the firm in 1952 and became a director in 1957.

The Westgate Street premises were left in 1931 in favour of a site in The Oxbode, King's Square, and an additional Gloucester shop was acquired in 1960 in the Grosvenor House development in Station Road. Branch stores in Cheltenham and Tewkesbury opened in 1962 and 1975 respectively.

The business was incorporated as a limited company in 1938, and in 1970, management was divided between Claude and Anthony Fletcher: Fletcher (Prams) Ltd. in Grosvenor House under Claude, and Fletcher (Sports) Ltd. of King's Square under Anthony.

By the late 1960s and throughout the 1970s, financial difficulties beset the trade, and both companies were put into liquidation in 1978.

The records

The only substantial record to have survived for the early gunsmith's business is a repair journal for the 1850s. The bulk of the collection relates to the 1950s-70s, although a good (if incomplete) series of accounts for 1924 onwards has also survived.

Detailed registers and records concerning the gun trade were required to be kept by law, and therefore provide full particulars of the types of firearms handled by the firm, as well as information about the scale of its business in the county and issues affecting the gun trade nationally. There are relatively fewer records for the areas into which the firm had diversified by the 1890s/1900s (cutlery, sports goods, and later prams, hobbies and toys).

[LongBlade]

Thanks very much David ... I did come across that in a google search and saw alot on the firearms from Thomas Fletcher 158 Westgate Gloucester - but importantly as I read your post I saw possibly the key - I didn't focus on "sports dealer" which can include knives which is why I am sure you referenced this - after all "guns and knives" go together like "bread and butter" ... I did search for just a location of Gloster and that is where it was noted that it was a shortened form of Gloucester - and as one can imagine Gloster was easier to fit on a stamp - be interested to see if by chance their guns were marked at all with the "wild chance" that they also used the shortened form if indeed this Fletcher was the maker/retailer of the knife... though I would think the guns if indeed marked had plenty of room for the long form of Gloucester...

David - I really appreciate you taking the time to run a search as well and posting this information as I am not sure I saved the link from my search ... very helpful and a good possibility for the origin of the knife!!

Note in edit after this post - I just found that some of their guns were marked Fletcher Gloucester - interesting

[espn77]

That's pretty cool how that whole conversation just went.

[peanut740]

It was.Glad to see you stop by David.Don`t be a stranger,you add a lot.

[TripleF]

Can't find any info on this pattern Robeson Cutlery Co (arched Robeson) over Cutlery co.

Pattern i 672284 or C72284

[djknife13]

Can't find any info on this pattern Robeson Cutlery Co (arched Robeson) over Cutlery co.

Pattern i 672284 or C72284

Scott, the first digit would be a 6, for pearl and the arched Robeson, according to Goin"s would be made from 1896 to 1922.____Dave

[TripleF]

Can't find any info on this pattern Robeson Cutlery Co (arched Robeson) over Cutlery co.

Pattern i 672284 or C72284

Scott, the first digit would be a 6, for pearl and the arched Robeson, according to Goin"s would be made from 1896 to 1922.____Dave

Thanks Dave! And Charlie (Robesonsrme) has the tang stamp identified to 1900 - 1916
viewtopic.php?f=93&t=39003

[RobesonsRme.com]

Actually, pearl would be a "7".

I'm a bit confused by the pattern number. I'm not sure what the "C" actually represents. They did use a prefix "C" on their early celluloid knives. The number might well be 722084. They often omitted the zero on knives numbered from 001 to 099.

They made that knife in two, three and four blades.

Here's my three blade. It has no pattern number on it.

The pearl handles on the OP knife have faded, but they originally were this so-called "Rose Pearl".

Charlie Noyes

[RobesonsRme.com]

I did a little work on this photo.

Charlie

[BWT]

Very nice Charlie!!!

[313 Mike]

Here is an old ebony handled knife that I think is pretty uncommon, if not exactly rare. Not sure exactly who the maker is, but the tang stamp BUDBRAND WINSTED, CT
Not much info available on it, except that the tang stamp indicates early 1920's.

[BWT]

Nice Mike, I have one I posted last week on knives made before 1960 page 76. It's a well made knife, not sure if it was a contract knife or not. Thanks for sharing yours