Landers Frary and Clark

[FRJ]

Two very nice examples. Bill.

[BWT]

Thanks Joe, hope to get more of them, but no more cellouid, the office knife is metal. I would like to remove those spots on the blades but so far no luck with metal polish.

[tongueriver]

I hope somebody bought this one; I was torn. It's pretty cool, I think.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-HUNT ... true&rt=nc

[danno50]

Nice ones, BWT! Here's one I just picked up from a local gun shop.
Dan

[BWT]

Thanks Dan, that is a good looking ole knife, I can never get lucky and find anything at a pawn shop. You did good.

[danno50]

Thanks Bill.
Dan

[DemonV]

Frj sorry don’t get on here often so it does not have a lock ! I’ll try to get picks up soon it was pulled out of the mud in northern Minnesota and I was seriously impressed by the lack of rust and edge on the blade did they ever make an ivory one the material looks just like a hand carved Harley Davidson ivory necklace I was given

[DemonV]

BWT the small brown one is the first exact same style. to a FNG like me would it look like a broken lock on the back bone the one my friend found and told me to keep looks almost brand new I just assumed that’s what it was I’ve always carried buck ever since I got my first folder when I was 8 I’ll get picks up ASAP the history so far is intriguing and does anyone know if there’s a museum this little thing deserves a better home then my work bench

[DemonV]

[LongBlade]

Nice knife DemonV ... (and welcome to the forum!)...

The handles on your knife are called french ivorine (or ivoroid) - it is a celluloid handle which was an old synthetic plastic made back in late 1800s-early 1900s. The knife is a 2 blade pen or shadow pattern - no bolsters. Sort of has an office knife appearance to me as that was a popular pattern by many companies (especially Miller Bros) but often is was inscribed "Office Knife". It is a fairly common old pattern and not particularly valuable. Knife does look to be in good shape to me. Often celluloid undergoes a phenomenon known as outgassing where the handle shrinks and worse yet it gives off sulfuric acid gas which can destroy the blades etc of that knife and any other knife that it is near. While it looks good now I wouldn't store it with other knives as the outgassing is unpredictable - a knife can go 100 years with no problem and it can start outgassing for no apparent good reason. Only advice is to store it out of sunlight and at a constant temperature.

As an aside LF&C was known for making synthetic handles - some were celluloid but most were black composition plastic (the latter does not outgas but can shrink overtime). They made some but not many MOP and wood handled knives but rarely bone or ivory if at all... I do have an old LF&C fixed blade hunter with stag from 1890 but that is the only bone/stag I have ever seen on their knives (other than kitchen knives). They just didn't do them in folding pocket knives.

Hope this helps...
Lee

[DemonV]

Lee damn thank you for the wealth of knowledge ! Is there any way to stop the gassing process and I don’t have many collectors knives just my NRA lifetime member buck and 75th anniversary buck it was just a luck find there was all kinds of odd things at t the job I worked up north started as a truck stop then antique shop then storage facility I wouldn’t be surprised if the wasn’t a lot of LFC stuff there but inside I left it alone but when my friend a I went for a hike she literally pulled it out of the mud

[LongBlade]

My pleasure DemonV ... In reference to outgassing - first I should say your knife looks good right now from looking at the photos and I am not seeing any signs of outgassing... for what it is worth I have heard that the french ivoroid or ivorine is more stable as celluloid so that is a bonus. Best one can do is keep it at a fairly constant temperature and not sitting in sunlight... However I know some people who believe if it is carried in your pocket more often that it is best - unfortunately the trigger of outgassing is not well understood for celluloid in terms of what sets it off... there have been a few discussions on outgassing on AAPK - here's a link to one that may be helpful - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54367&p=604427&hili ... ng#p604427 ... I would enjoy the knife and do as you please with it (carry or store it) as it is not particularly valuable - I think it is pretty cool that it was found in the mud - certainly doesn't look like it.

Cheers
Lee

[Miller Bro's]

The backspring is broken, still good for parts or restoration

[LongBlade]

Good catch Dimitri ... I missed that in the post if noted and I think when I browsed down through pics I was thinking that was a blade in the liner .... celluloid still looks good at the moment but less of a concern now ...

[FRJ]

Here's a nice Landers Frary & Clark stockman with the composition covers still very much intact. 4 inches closed.

[LongBlade]

Joe - That's one nice LF&C stockman ... I'm guessing 3 5/8" closed????

[FRJ]

Thank you, Lee.
It's 4 inches closed.

[peanut740]

LF&C big cigar jack,salesman sample.

[BWT]

Really enjoying all your Moose patterns in all the different threads Roger! You really did pick up some really nice ones, thanks for sharing all of them

[LongBlade]

Very nice LF&C Roger ... The black compo handles even look good !!

[bleasure]

Hi everyone - I'm grateful I came across this thread! I was recently given my great grandfather's pocket knife. It's a Universal Landers, Frary & Clark jackknife that lived in the far North Country of NY most of its life. I could use some help getting more information about it, if there's any to be had. The knife was completely rusted when I got it. I've done some rust removal and cleaning up with a [very brief] vinegar bath for the blades, some 400+ grit sandpaper, and steel wool. Before I do any more, I want to know more about what I'm dealing with.

This thread has helped me identify the handle material - well, as far as "rubberoid" is illuminating, lol. I'd really like to learn its make/model/age if anyone can help with that, along with anything else about it I can. Should I assume the steel is 1095?

Tang markings are:
LF&C
USA

Serial no: looks like 02623

The Universal etching on the blade was already half gone underneath the rust, seemingly from wear more than oxidation. I'd like to avoid any further damage to it, while getting as much patina and pitting out as I'm able. Does anyone know if rubberoid might react badly to evaporust, or if something like Flitz would further harm the etching if I tried to use it on the blades?

[FRJ]

Hi bleasure, welcome to the forum.

You have a very nice dog leg jack there. May I suggest you stop cleaning it.
Certainly up to you but considering it's age will probably wear the rest of its history well.
Patina can sometimes reflect credibility.
You are fortunate indeed to have your Great Grandfathers pocket knife.
The handles are holding up quite well.
How long is the knife closed?

[bleasure]

Thanks FRJ! I agree, I'm really glad to have it. And thank you for the type name. It's 3" closed, and the larger blade is 2". The handles are in great shape, save for what I'm assuming is a little shrinkage at the edges.

As far as cleaning goes - I agree. In another life I was an archival worker, and am averse to any destructive restoration unless it's literally necessary. In this case, what I've done has been light, and aimed only at arresting further decay / restoring it to a sound, useable state. I don't intend to do much more than I have already. It's gone from zero detent, and universal rust masking all of its marks, to surprisingly crisp half stops for both blades for instance - the larger esp. I wish I'd taken pictures before I started, I'm shocked at how well it's come along.

That said, I'd still love to know about materials and interactions for future knife care, if you or anyone has info on the above. I'd like to be as careful as possible with anything I do. Got a really cool Sword brand Camillus I'm picking up tomorrow that may need a little work, for instance.

[Mumbleypeg]

Welcome to AAPK. You’re very fortunate to have a knife that belonged to your grandfather! I’m in total agreement with Joe regarding further cleaning of it - think of your grandfather carrying it, using it, and caring for it. The wear and dings were out there by him, and thus are treasures unto themselves.

Here’s a thread created just to answer questions about knife care and cleaning. viewtopic.php?f=37&t=54157

Ken

[bleasure]

This is super useful, thank you for the link Ken! I promise, the cleaning I'm doing is just to keep it healthy - I'm not kidding about the intensity of the rust. It was sitting unoiled in my Dad's dresser for... 40 years? And I don't know what state it was in before that to begin with. The existing wear on the knife is only evident because of what I've done so far, and I'm excited to be able to see it. My aim isn't cleaning it "to 'mint,'" just to the level of care it deserves.