Case chrome plated blades and split stag handles

[btrwtr]

I have recently noticed a number of older Case brand fixed blades sold on eBay that have had all of the chrome plating buffed off the blades. Some of these knives have sold at far above what I believe would be an expected selling price. I did ask a seller if the chrome plating was still intact on the blade of a knife he had for sale and his response was that the knife looked good to him, no direct reply to what my question was.

Once a plated blade has had some of the plating removed from normal wear and sharpening it is very hard to present the knife as anything other than used. The chrome plate is there to protect the carbon steel under the plating from corroding. Remove the chrome and the carbon steel will change color and rust. The contrast between the chrome and the carbon underneath is very noticeable.

Much as people "clean" the blades of folding knives to remove signs of use people are buffing the chrome from fixed blades in an attempt to make the knives appear new. Judging from the prices I have seen these buffed plated fixed blades selling for I would say that the buffing has paid off.

My point here is that bidders should know what they are getting for their money. Education. In my opinion a Case or any other brand fixed blade knife that has had the chrome plating removed by buffing should be worth far less than half of a similar knife with the plating intact. Shiny sells, buyer beware.

I have also noticed some older Case brand fixed blade knives selling that look to have been converted from leather washer type handles to split stag handles (a knife that has a hidden tang and four pins connecting the two stag slabs). These knives are also bringing far above what I believe they should sell for. Split stag Case knives command a premium but knives that had leather handles cobbled to split stag are a far different animal. Know what you are bidding on.

[supratentorial]

Good post

[XX Case XX]

That's very good information. I you ever run across any "before/after" pics please post. I understand what you're saying but a visual reference would help me a bunch just to see the difference. Until I just read this, I wasn't even aware that people were doing that. Thanks for posting.

__________
Mike

[Gunsil]

I have noticed this too Wayne, and I also find it incredible. Brad and I have been discussing these for a while. I am amazed at the prices the seller is getting for these re-handled and/or buffed off chrome Case knives. Don't these buyers see the brass spacers that are too thick on some or the different spacer packs front to rear? I sure wish I could get the high prices he gets for bad knives on my good ones at shows. I must say that I am impressed that the guy who is doing the re-handle work is able to get the lead plug pommels off and on and even using lead plugs where the knife originally had a pommel nut!! eBay really sucks in that we can no longer contact other buyers to warn them that they are paying top dollar for bad knives. Of course it is obvious that they don't mind making money from fraudulent items, too bad they cannot be forced to take responsibility for these transactions. It is not a good way to run a business where "caveat emptor" is the word of the day.

---Gene

[knife7knut]

It would seem to me that if the chrome plating were removed from a blade that a lot of the steel beneath would be removed as well.I assume that when blades are chrome plated they use what is referred to as a "hard chrome" provess rather than a decorative chrome plating.
The difference is that hard chroming is a fairly thick build up of material that is used mainly to prolong the life of a part such as the journals of a crankshaft whereas decorative chrome plating is mostly a copper base with a nickel plate used to help bond the very thin chrome plating to the copper. The reason most plating jobs start to peel is in an effort to save money people will forego the nickel process and the chrome will deteriorate very rapidly. Removing the remaining plating would require using abrasive materials that would also damage the blade steel which creates the indistinct edges on a blade where it has been ground.
While you can use an electrolytic process to remove decorative chrome plating the only way to remove hard chrome is by grinding it as it is a process similar to metal spraying whereby molten metal is fused to a heated base metal.

[btrwtr]

It would seem to me that if the chrome plating were removed from a blade that a lot of the steel beneath would be removed as well.I assume that when blades are chrome plated they use what is referred to as a "hard chrome" provess rather than a decorative chrome plating.
The difference is that hard chroming is a fairly thick build up of material that is used mainly to prolong the life of a part such as the journals of a crankshaft whereas decorative chrome plating is mostly a copper base with a nickel plate used to help bond the very thin chrome plating to the copper. The reason most plating jobs start to peel is in an effort to save money people will forego the nickel process and the chrome will deteriorate very rapidly. Removing the remaining plating would require using abrasive materials that would also damage the blade steel which creates the indistinct edges on a blade where it has been ground.
While you can use an electrolytic process to remove decorative chrome plating the only way to remove hard chrome is by grinding it as it is a process similar to metal spraying whereby molten metal is fused to a heated base metal.

I am not sure about the plating process used on these blades but I can tell you that using a white rouge on a sewn buffing wheel it is not difficult to remove the chrome plating from a blade. Buffing only with no other abrasives used.

[knife7knut]

I am not sure about the plating process used on these blades but I can tell you that using a white rouge on a sewn buffing wheel it is not difficult to remove the chrome plating from a blade. Buffing only with no other abrasives used.

Then I would venture a guess that they are chrome plating directly over the steel which in most cases does not adhere at all.Or perhaps it is not chrome plating at all but some other metal.Cadmium can be used as a plating medium but it is not generally shiny and it can be removed readily by buffing.
The chrome plating process(decorative chrome that is)is only as good as the initial finish on the steel or whatever metal you are plating.The person who does the initial buffing has to get it perfect or any imperfection will show in the final finish.After the buffing process the metal is treated to a brief stay in the copper tank(known as a copper flash) then washed and dried. Any imperfections can be buffed out providing the copper coat is thick enough.After another wash it is put into the nickel tank which gives the surface a silvery finish that is somewhat dull and yellowish in color. After the nickel is buffed to a high luster it is washed and immersed in the chrome tank for a short period as the chrome builds quickly and gives the metal it's bluish tint.Another wash and buff and the part is finish. It is known as triple chrome plating as the copper allows the nickel to bond to the metal and the nickel allows the chrome to bond.
Chrome will start to chip and peel if there was any contamination of the parts during the process. On a knife I would assume what starts the peeling process is sharpening the edge which cuts through the layers or possibly contamination of the metal.
You should not be able to easily buff away chrome.

[btrwtr]

I am not sure about the plating process used on these blades but I can tell you that using a white rouge on a sewn buffing wheel it is not difficult to remove the chrome plating from a blade. Buffing only with no other abrasives used.

Then I would venture a guess that they are chrome plating directly over the steel which in most cases does not adhere at all.Or perhaps it is not chrome plating at all but some other metal.Cadmium can be used as a plating medium but it is not generally shiny and it can be removed readily by buffing.
The chrome plating process(decorative chrome that is)is only as good as the initial finish on the steel or whatever metal you are plating.The person who does the initial buffing has to get it perfect or any imperfection will show in the final finish.After the buffing process the metal is treated to a brief stay in the copper tank(known as a copper flash) then washed and dried. Any imperfections can be buffed out providing the copper coat is thick enough.After another wash it is put into the nickel tank which gives the surface a silvery finish that is somewhat dull and yellowish in color. After the nickel is buffed to a high luster it is washed and immersed in the chrome tank for a short period as the chrome builds quickly and gives the metal it's bluish tint.Another wash and buff and the part is finish. It is known as triple chrome plating as the copper allows the nickel to bond to the metal and the nickel allows the chrome to bond.
Chrome will start to chip and peel if there was any contamination of the parts during the process. On a knife I would assume what starts the peeling process is sharpening the edge which cuts through the layers or possibly contamination of the metal.
You should not be able to easily buff away chrome.

You can not easily buff away the chrome plate but as I said with the right compound and equipment it is not difficult to do.

[Gunsil]

Same seller has another buffed off chrome knife for sale, perhaps he just doesn't know??

[SolWarrior]

I just don't see the logic behind chrome plating a blade, unless it's meant for collectors only and never to be used and especially sharpened.

[knife7knut]

I just don't see the logic behind chrome plating a blade, unless it's meant for collectors only and never to be used and especially sharpened.

I would agree wholeheartedy. Chrome plating is essentially a protective coating for steel that happens to look good when done properly.Unfortunately it is an extremely thin coating and once the surface has been compromised deteriorates pretty rapidly.Moisture will get under any opening and start the rusting process on the steel. An improperly applied plating such as chrome plating without using a copper and nickel base will peel away in short order. Improper cleaning between plating will cause adhesion problems. Properly done by someone who is familiar with the process it will last a long time.

[SolWarrior]

I would agree wholeheartedy. Chrome plating is essentially a protective coating for steel that happens to look good when done properly.Unfortunately it is an extremely thin coating and once the surface has been compromised deteriorates pretty rapidly.Moisture will get under any opening and start the rusting process on the steel. An improperly applied plating such as chrome plating without using a copper and nickel base will peel away in short order. Improper cleaning between plating will cause adhesion problems. Properly done by someone who is familiar with the process it will last a long time.

Yeah, I worked at a plating shop for the US government and I'm familiar with the many steps to plating of various sorts. We did some decorative chrome plating too, sparingly, but mostly did chrome to prevent wear of engine parts so that plating was thick and then machined down smooth to specifications. Decorative chrome plating was never meant for any blades that were to be put to actual use. They were simply for show.

[Gunsil]

I guess some of you guys aren't too familiar with old hunting knives. Case chromed most of their hunting knife blades from around 1932-through the 1950s at least. KA-BAR chromed their WW2 PX "COMMANDO" and later in the late 1940s some of their hunters. These knives were not just made for collectors, they were chromed for corrosion resistance and especially on the Case knives and the KA-BARs it worked really well. Hunting knives in general are exposed to more corrosive materials than most folders, they were used to clean game, getting blood and fatty acids on them. They were used in camp to slice bacon and vegetables, onions are fairly corrosive as are citrus and other fruits. The Case knives were made from cro-van steel which corrodes or rusts quite easily and the chrome plating worked very well in keeping the main part of the blade rust free. Case also chromed some of their professional butcher and packing house knives for corrosion resistance. If the knife was cared for and sharpened properly only the edge was subject to rust and if cared for the rust did not get under the chrome. As these knives were used and some not sharpened properly and "rode hard and put away wet" the rust would get worn off higher than necessary and rust could get under the chrome. In these days of folks "cleaning to mint" some people buff all the chrome off to try to present the knife as "mint" or "near mint". The experienced eye can see the difference in color of highly polished steel versus original chrome finish, but novices are often getting burned by these people who clean the chrome off and attempt to pass the knife of as original finish. One needs to know which models and era of knives were chromed to know if the blade has had the chrome buffed off. The factory chrome finish on these knives is a very beautiful finish, but when the chrome gets scratched it doesn't look so nice and the scratches cannot be removed from the hard chrome resulting in the knife cleaners removing the chrome to get rid of the ugly scratches.

[espn77]

Thanks Gunsil for sharing that information. I know it's new to me.