T. Ellin & Co, Sheffield

[danno50]

Picked up this one yesterday at a local gun shop. Goins says 1784 to 1970. Tweedale says mark was sold to Joseph Elliot in the mid 1930s. Handles are some type of composite or plastic material. Probably considerably closer to 1970 than 1784. I believe the lack of England on the stamp doesn't indicate pre 1891, Tweedale says that T. Ellin targeted the Canadian market. Vulcan was one of T Ellin's marks. The Vulcan is very worn on both blades.
Dan

[doglegg]

Very cool.

[kootenay joe]

Horseman's knife & a good one too. Likely is pre 1891. Handles probably are hard rubber (not checkered ebony which seems rare). Rub vigorously with your thumb and check for a camphor smell.
Very good find. Super rare in Canada !
kj

[edge213]

I'm with kj, I don't think that knife is anywhere near 1970.

[danno50]

thanks for the comments edge, Roland and David. Here are a few more pics of the handle material. In the first pic, where it is chipped out, it appears very shiny to the eye. Material also appears layered? In hand it has the look and feel of plastic of some kind (which is what lead me to believe it was more recent, 1930s or so?), but looks quite different in the close ups? The scales appear to be brass and the bolster is nickel silver. The center liner is steel. The pins are hammered and the punch is square in cross section. However, I would have expected the master blade on a real old Sheffield knife to have a square, or stovepipe, kick?
Anyway, looking forward to more opinions on the handle material.
Thanks
Dan

[GerryD]

As already said nice horseman with all the accessories so often the tooth pick goes missing. I think its 20th century and not 19th and the scales i suspect are made of something like Bexeroid (I may have just made that up but i think thats what its called.) I recall someone on the old BB site saying stick a red hot pin in the scales a smell but I'm afraid I've forgotten what i was smelling for, needless to say i did not take that course of action.
Anyway heres an almost identical horseman by T Turner, it does have England on the tang .
Gerry

[kootenay joe]

Very good pics of the handle edges.
This specific Horseman's pattern goes back into the 1800's and was quite common, made by numerous manufacturers, like T.Turner as shown by GerryD.
The checkered handles used on these was either hard rubber or ebony, with rubber being more common.
Because this pattern knife was made unchanged for many years i do not know how to date; e.g. late 1800's ? early 1900's ? or after WW I ? No "England" in the markings suggests older than 1891.
Would be good to hear from someone more knowledgeable than i am with vintage Sheffield knives.
kj

[danno50]

Very nice knife, GerryD, and thanks for the comment. I would lean more towards 20th century than 19th as well. Roland, I guess the handles could be very hard rubber which is starting to dry out? Also, I don't think that the lack of England on the tang stamps is indicative of pre 1891. The tariff act of 1891 was American, if the knife was exported directly to Canada, it would not have needed the England designation. Tweedale does state that Canada was an important market for T Ellin in the 1880s.
Dan

[GerryD]

The England on the the tang can lead you up the garden path, the stamp was not applied for knives not intended to be exported so its not easy.I'm not sure about the rules for Canada, I suspect it was more for the US being protective about its own industry, what goes around comes around I used to get quiet hung up on age but i accept 20 years either way now. The material is i think man made and rubber or steamed bone or even compressed pressed leather were all used around WW1 and i would guess early part of the 20th century give or take 20 years. Either way its nice to have in such fine used condition. I have a number of horsemen but only this one with this type of scale. Horses were on the way out after WW1, to be frank most had been repositioned by the army during the war so I suspect this knife was not as popular had it had been.

Gerry

[Miller Bro's]

Nice knife Dan

The handles are horn.

[danno50]

thanks for the comment and the confirmation of handle material, Dimitri!
Dan

[Miller Bro's]

Your welcome Dan

The handles were pressed with that design, it was not cut with a file.