Politically Incorrect Knives

[Sut Tatersaul]

I bought these knives around the early seventies, at a popular gun store, that's still in business. I used them to banter with a Fellow, first generation American, a good friend, of German descend, and fellow electrician. Also, a good friend, an African American Electrician. We were close enough friends that we bantered all the time, never intending to hurt anyone's feelings. The one knife is a single blade knife, with brass scales, made by TAYLOR CUTLERY, of JAPAN- SURGICAL on the blade, and marked KU KLUX KLAN, on one handle, and a picture of a Clansman in full garb, on the other. The other is a two blade knife, with what I assume are stainless steel blades, one marked DEUTCHLAND - ERWACHT, and the Brass scales depict Adolf Hitler, on one side and Script Erwacht, and swastika on the other. It is what I believe to be a replica of a Hitler Youth knife. People were a lot broader minded on "political correctness" then, than they are now, with a large portion of out people now living in LA LA. Land. Well, here they are anyway, with absolutely no malice intended, toward anyone. Just a little history on the progression of our culture.
Sut Tatersaul

[Stakeknife]

Concerning Nazi stuff. My ex father in law who has passed was Jewish. He made a hobby of traveling to many cities in many states and visited thousands of antique shops and bought up every piece of Nazi stuff he could lay his hands on.

He said he wanted to keep it out of the hands of anyone who might want to start a new Nazi movement! He passed a year ago or so. I hope his survivors honored his wishes.

[tongueriver]

Concerning Nazi stuff. My ex father in law who has passed was Jewish. He made a hobby of traveling to many cities in many states and visited thousands of antique shops and bought up every piece of Nazi stuff he could lay his hands on.

He said he wanted to keep it out of the hands of anyone who might want to start a new Nazi movement! He passed a year ago or so. I hope his survivors honored his wishes.

I'm with you. If this is "progression of our culture," I guess I am one of the ones in "la la land."

[SolWarrior]

Speaking of "broad minded" - Those little knives represent the opposite of that; the narrow-minded groups and their followers that have done a lot more than take a risk of hurting a friend's feelings -- or any stranger for that matter -- based strictly on the color of their skin, and nothing more elegant than that. I give those knives and your comments but to each his own.

[treefarmer]

Seems to me that what people do with historical items or items made to remember historical issues of our history, be it world history or American history, will remind us of the just and unjust issues and how they played out. Removing all the Confederate War statues is a case in point. Will their removal make a fact of U.S. history disappear or does it just placate "snowflake" and the like?
There are a lot of German and Japanese WWII knives and guns in this country and there are a lot of AK47s that represent the enemy in the Viet Nam War and the Middle East conflict that is on going. These items may be offensive to some but to the owners they are probably reminders of a personal walk through history.
I applaud Sut Tatersaul and his presentation!
Treefarmer

[knife7knut]

Truth be told I am probably considered a very politically incorrect person.I was born while the second World War was still raging and grew up with grandparents who considered people of the Catholic faith to be in bed with the devil. You don't even want to know what their feelings about black people were. People of German descent and anyone with almond shaped eyes who spoke with an odd accent were also high on the taboo list.
Somehow I managed to survive all of that and grew up to be a fairly tolerant person.I once belonged to an African American Club that my ex-wife's boss had started;I worked as a dispatcher at a Mercedes-Benz dealership and tended to about 20 plus mechanics;four of whom were actually born in this country. It should have been called United Nations Motors.
Although it was never totally smooth sailing I pretty much got along with everyone there.
I have a small collection of military and non-military items that could conceivably called,"politically incorrect" although many of them are what I consider a part of our history;whether good or bad is not an issue with me. I have a couple of KKK marked knives(one a Case trapper that I believe was sold by SMKW)that were given to me as gifts by people who knew I collected knives.I do not proclaim allegiance to the Klan or any other such organization(unless you consider the NRA to be a subversive organization). I have several Chinese and Japanese weapons from WWII and before and I do not go around decapitating people with them. I have a German SA dagger that was given to me by a workmate whose Dad brought it home from WWII. I do not consider myself a Nazi. I have swords from the Revolutionary War and the Civil War(otherwise known as the War of Northern Aggression)and I do not consider myself a,"rebel" from either one of those conflicts.
I consider many of these items examples of craftsmanship of a bygone era that I was not a part of or do I wish to be so.
When I think of some of the collections I have either personally seen or have seen pictures of I am tempted to recall a museum in Japan that is not open to the public but is by appointment only and I'm not sure I would want to visit it. The curator of the museum is a man who collects tattoo art. That is he contacts people(mostly they contact him from what I understand)who have so called,"body suits" of tattoos and encourages them to donate their art to him after they die. He carefully removes their skin and preserves it and it is displayed in the museum.
After reading of this "museum" in a tattoo magazine I was visiting a tattoo shop with my son who was having one done that I had designed for him and while waiting got to talking with another customer who was literally covered from head to toe with tattoos. There were pictures on the wall of many of his "ink artifacts". When I mentioned the article to him he smiled and said yes he knew the man as he was donating his body to the museum when he died!
This probably rates as the most politically incorrect thing I have ever seen but I offer no condemnation of it as repulsive as it may seem to many it is not physically harming to anyone that I can tell.
Without turning this into a political discussion(forbidden) I will say only that political correctness is far more insidious than anything I have ever witnessed.
For those who are offended by such things I would humbly suggest that they read,"The Rise & Fall of the Third Reich" by William L. Shirer or,"The Killing Fields" by Sidney Schaumberg if they want to see what OFFENSIVE really is.
Rant over;we now return you to your local programming.

[SolWarrior]

Knife7Knut: My problem is not with the knives alone but the comments behind them is what makes the difference. I know where he stands so I figured I'd express where I stand too. That's it. The knives alone can pass as relics. And I believe in the very few rights left to us as U.S. citizens. But since you went there I kindly suggest that you listen (on youtube) to what Tim Wise has to say on white privilege.

[gsmith7158]

I think when one looks at the history of the world one must also realize that that judgment of actions by individuals and civilizations by today's standards is really laughable. Times were much different, tasks were much different, survival in a world that people didn't really understand was the most important thing. The tools that these people used and made to complete these tasks are inanimate objects. They won't hurt anyone . Like it or not they are a part of the human history despite any disdain we "modern" people may have for the person that was wielding them. They should be revered an held for posterity! As for discussion of atrocities and prejudices of times gone by, you weren't there. If you wish to apply modern standards to bygone eras you are just blowing wind.

[Sut Tatersaul]

I would like to offer my sincere apology to anyone that I have offended. The atrocities that the knives I have shown depict, can not, nor should, ever be forgot, or swept under the rug, and said never to have existed. The point that I am pointing out is, that there was a time in our society when racial, political, and religious problems could be openly discussed, and thereby, some might even even be solved. Not so Today! Anything today, considered "politically Incorrect", is "solved" by Sign carrying rioters, destroying public vehicles, property, and public servants, While helping themselves to private owned merchandise, while "solving the problems". Another great problem solving solution, is, to erase the records of atrocities committed, and declaring them never to have been committed, or to legislate morality. I was brought up in another era, when they used other "problem solving methods". I might be wrong, and today's methods might be better, lets hope so, but don't ask me to become a "Political Correct Billboard", and donate my carcass to an Idiot to make decorated leather from. You see, I remember seeing a friend, and veteran of WW2, discovering that he had brought back a sheet of white leather, and a roll of white white lacing, that turned out to be leather from the skin of a Jewish concentration camp prisoner, complete with tattoo of their ID #. He had been making billfolds out of that leather until, he found the tattoo. Sorry about the rant, but, It made me really sad to be judged, by some to be what I am not, and have never been.
Sut Tatersaul

[SolWarrior]

In reference to the suggestion of reading material for comparison purposes, I've never been one to compare my standards to the worst of standards but rather one should compare to the better ones, if not the best. I just don't see the benefit in that. As for not being there, no one here was yet we're all providing opinions. And about eras gone by and blowing wind, the problems of racism are still very much alive today, and thus must be met with the same veracity by which they were and still are so inadequately, thoughtlessly and dangerously accepted.

Sut, based on your response I have no issues here with you.

[QTCut5]

All I will say about this is that symbols have power. Personally, I happen to find symbols from all cultures very interesting because of the power they clearly have on the human psyche. I am fascinated by ancient Celtic runes, Native American, Nazi, African, Pacific Islander, Mesoamerican, etc, symbols. Even the "Stars & Bars" of the US Confederacy intrigues me because of the power it appears to have and the intense (even rabid) emotions it provokes, both positive and negative, same as a swastika. Consider the power of the Christian cross and the Islamic crescent or the Soviet hammer & sickle and the influence they have each had on society, as much in ancient times as in modern days. There is a HUGE difference, however, between studying or analyzing symbols (or even collecting examples of certain symbols that have historical significance) and endorsing the beliefs or superstitions the symbols are intended to represent. I am fascinated by the swastika as much as I am by the confederate flag; but, I'm certainly not going to display either of these highly volatile symbols publicly other than, perhaps, in the context of an honest discussion of their meaning, social & historical significance. The Stars & Stripes of the flag of United States of America, however, is a symbol I will proudly display publicly because it's a symbol that represents concepts & ideas that I personally believe in and endorse. And one of those concepts is that others have the same right to display the symbols they believe in that represent their core values and ideals regardless of how repulsive or repugnant they may be to me personally. But, I also believe in decorum and a sense of basic human decency, and sometimes this belief is misconstrued as "political correctness" when in fact it is simply respect for the feelings and sensitivities of others.

~Q~

[gsmith7158]

Q you have most eloquently stated the point that I was trying to get across in my previous post. Throughout history the civilizations that you mentioned and many more, the Romans, Greeks, Persians and Egyptians have all built great Empires that produced astonishing structures, art, tools and many other things that we marvel at still today.Without exception you can find fault with each and everyone of them in the ways that some of these things were accomplished. The Great Pyramids built with slave labor. Should we ban all pictures of them? The Romans and the Greeks and others built great Empires on lands that were previously inhabited By simple farmers and and Nomadic tribes who they viciously killed and claimed their lands. Should we choose to delete study of all their accomplishments? Would this forever erase all of the bad things that have ever happened in the history of the human race? I think not. As you said, symbols are powerful things to certain people and the person who can look at them from a historical perspective and also realize that what they stood for or the methods used to enforce the belief in those symbols is one step ahead of the person who looks at that symbol and only sees one thing. You can't change history. That's what i meant with my comment about blowing wind.Embrace it,study it only then will you be successful in not repeating it. And one more thing I don't think political correctness has a thing to do with civil and gentlemanly behavior which we should all have. That though is a discussion for another thread as this one is entitled European and other foreign manufactured knives.

[SolWarrior]

I agree that Q put it into prospective best. Symbols are very powerful and done so by design. I also don't like the idea of "political correctness" too, mostly with regards to politics. Speaking the truth where ever it needs to be said is what keeps a democracy working as it should - for the people. To be "politically correct" by today's definition is to be stifled simply to be socially proper without a thought to the greater good. Very well said, Q.

I wish everyone here and on AAPK a very long and happy 4th of July weekend.