WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

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QTCut5
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WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by QTCut5 »

Saw this one sell on eBay recently...the seller wouldn't let me bid on it because for some reason he/she didn't want to ship to a "foreign country" like Hawaii. :? ::cb:: :evil: Tried bribing with obscene amount of $$$, but to no avail. If anyone has one or knows where I can obtain one, I am willing to pay top dollar for a nice clean example in good condition. ::fc:: ::pray:: ::fc::
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We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by doglegg »

Q, I would be honored to bid for you if you run into that problem again. ::handshake::
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by QTCut5 »

Thanks, Floyd...I wish I had thought to ask someone (who does not live in a foreign country) to be a proxy bidder/buyer for me in time (I only discovered it when the auction was almost over).

Next time I run into a similar situation, however, you'll be my go-to guy for sure. ::tu::

Big Mahalo and Aloha Brah! :D
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by Gunsil »

Who made that knife? Looks like a Parker special. Certainly not an original E C Simmons.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by QTCut5 »

Gunsil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:38 am Who made that knife? Looks like a Parker special. Certainly not an original E C Simmons.
That, I do not know. ::shrug::

I have a Keen Kutter Mini Trapper that I believe was made by Bear & Sons, but the tang stamp does not have "EC Simmons" over "Keen Kutter" like the one I posted above has.
EC Simmons Keen Kutter.jpg
Did Parker use this EC Simmons Keen Kutter tang stamp? ::shrug::
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by edge213 »

The KKs that I have seen made by Bear didn't have cover pins.
Not saying none did, but the ones I've seen didnt.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by jerryd6818 »

Gunsil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:38 am Who made that knife? Looks like a Parker special. Certainly not an original E C Simmons.
Educate me Gene. What is it about the knife that tells you it's not an original E C Simmons? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by QTCut5 »

edge213 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:11 pm The KKs that I have seen made by Bear didn't have cover pins.
Not saying none did, but the ones I've seen didnt.
Here's the one I have that I think was probably made by Bear...it has only a rocker pin (and the tang stamp does not have EC Simmons).

KK by Bear.JPG
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by edge213 »

QTCut5 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:45 pm
edge213 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:11 pm The KKs that I have seen made by Bear didn't have cover pins.
Not saying none did, but the ones I've seen didnt.
Here's the one I have that I think was probably made by Bear...it has only a rocker pin (and the tang stamp does not have EC Simmons).


KK by Bear.JPG
Yes, this is Bear.
And I really like it ::tu::
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by Gunsil »

jerryd6818 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:56 pm
Gunsil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:38 am Who made that knife? Looks like a Parker special. Certainly not an original E C Simmons.
Educate me Gene. What is it about the knife that tells you it's not an original E C Simmons? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Hi Jerry, the KK stamp on the OP knife is not an original. It is much too "thick" the originals were not struck so deep with such thick letters and KK logo. Also never seen an original Simmons knife without pins showing in the covers. I also don't think "mini trappers" were ever made back in the day by Simmons and probably not by any company. Modern repro. I hadn't known anybody was remaking Simmons knives, I guess I just don't understand why companies are re-using fine old names like Schatt & Morgan, Northfield, etc. I guess folks will collect anything even repros. Maybe I am just too much of a purist of sorts, but when I see an S & M knife advertised and it is a modern made example it makes me nuts since real S & Ms are hard to find, but now there are hundreds or thousands bearing that mark, all modern knives.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by QTCut5 »

Gunsil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:12 pm the OP knife is not an original. It is much too "thick" the originals were not struck so deep with such thick letters and KK logo. Also never seen an original Simmons knife without pins showing in the covers.
I am not disagreeing with you as you clearly know more about this than I do and I suspect you're right about this being a modern reproduction; however, I will point out that the OP knife does, in fact, have cover pins showing. In case you couldn't see them in the OP, here are some of the sellers close up pics showing the pins.

Keen Kutter MT.jpg
KK MT.jpg
Gunsil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:12 pmI also don't think "mini trappers" were ever made back in the day by Simmons and probably not by any company.
Case made mini trappers beginning in the Tested era (1920-1940), although Case may not have called them "Mini Trappers" (they are sometimes called "Dogleg Jacks"). The vintage 07s used the same frame as modern 07s, but with a different blade configuration and a cut-out on the pile side for the secondary pen blade; nevertheless, and despite those slight variations, they are essentially the same as a modern Case Mini Trapper (except, perhaps, in the build quality which was/is far superior on the vintage 07s). YMMV

Gunsil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:12 pm when I see an S & M knife advertised and it is a modern made example it makes me nuts since real S & Ms are hard to find, but now there are hundreds or thousands bearing that mark, all modern knives.
I am curious what exactly you consider constitutes a "real" S&M? I have numerous S&Ms that were made in the modern era, i.e., made by Queen in Titusville, PA. well into the 2000s (years), that I consider just as real/genuine as older S&Ms. Granted, the modern S&Ms may not be of the same quality as the older/vintage S&Ms, but they're still genuine S&Ms, IMO, because they were made in the USA by Queen when it was still in business (and they're not that hard to find). The new iterations of Queen City knives that are made in China, on the other hand, are an example of what I would NOT consider to be "real" or genuine Queen City knives.
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
(Eagles: Hotel California)


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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by Ridgegrass »

Gonna add my two-cents here. As a collector of old, and original knives I've always been a little put off by remakes. Not that they're bad products or fakes. It's just that if I want, say, a Schatt and Morgan knife, I want one made by a Schatt and Morgan cutler, in their factory, when they were in business. Modern issues are nice and well made, but to me, they are at best, "replicas". It's a matter of history. When I handle one of my favorite Catts, it's knowing that some cutler in the old Little Valley factory sat at a grinder or bench and assembled his work probably with the company's quality standards on his mind. ( No CAD or plasma cut blanks). It's the historical aspect that holds a large percentage of the appeal for me. If a company or custom builder makes a high quality knife, why not put their own stamp on it and take credit for a good product. A "nod" to the original is fine but it's just not an original.
Guess that's why Baskin and Robbins made a fortune. Everybody doesn't like the same flavor !
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by ea42 »

As Gene mentions I don't think there were ever any Keen Kutter trappers made in that length. I think there were only the peanut size models at 2 7/8" and the regular trappers that were between 3 7/8" and 4". This one at 3 1/2" is one I've never seen at all. Same with the nail mark on the clip. Never seen a Keen Kutter trapper with the mark right under the transition from spine to clip, it's either right under the spine or forward under the curve of the clip. That knife looks almost like the spitting image of a Case mini trapper, but I'm not aware of Case ever contracting knives to them while they (KK) were still in business. BTW that stamp looks like a pre-1939 stamp from what I can make out which makes it even more puzzling unless it is indeed a late copycat knife.

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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by ea42 »

Ridgegrass wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:54 pm Gonna add my two-cents here. As a collector of old, and original knives I've always been a little put off by remakes. Not that they're bad products or fakes. It's just that if I want, say, a Schatt and Morgan knife, I want one made by a Schatt and Morgan cutler, in their factory, when they were in business. Modern issues are nice and well made, but to me, they are at best, "replicas". It's a matter of history. When I handle one of my favorite Catts, it's knowing that some cutler in the old Little Valley factory sat at a grinder or bench and assembled his work probably with the company's quality standards on his mind. ( No CAD or plasma cut blanks). It's the historical aspect that holds a large percentage of the appeal for me. If a company or custom builder makes a high quality knife, why not put their own stamp on it and take credit for a good product. A "nod" to the original is fine but it's just not an original.
Guess that's why Baskin and Robbins made a fortune. Everybody doesn't like the same flavor !
J.O'.

J.O'. that's my feeling exactly. A good example is the recent Daniels Family knives with the Napanoch tang stamp. WHY?? It makes no sense to me. Those knives have absolutely nothing to do with Napanoch (the town or the knife company) so why use the name? It seems ridiculous. Why not just stamp them Daniels Family Knives? Sure seems to make more sense. It's really annoying as a collector to do a search for Napanoch knives and have to wade through nothing but Daniels knives and the older Parker copies when I'm only looking for an original Nap. It's so ridiculous.

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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by jerryd6818 »

Gunsil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:12 pm
jerryd6818 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:56 pm
Gunsil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:38 am Who made that knife? Looks like a Parker special. Certainly not an original E C Simmons.
Educate me Gene. What is it about the knife that tells you it's not an original E C Simmons? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Hi Jerry, the KK stamp on the OP knife is not an original. It is much too "thick" the originals were not struck so deep with such thick letters and KK logo. Also never seen an original Simmons knife without pins showing in the covers. I also don't think "mini trappers" were ever made back in the day by Simmons and probably not by any company. Modern repro. I hadn't known anybody was remaking Simmons knives, I guess I just don't understand why companies are re-using fine old names like Schatt & Morgan, Northfield, etc. I guess folks will collect anything even repros. Maybe I am just too much of a purist of sorts, but when I see an S & M knife advertised and it is a modern made example it makes me nuts since real S & Ms are hard to find, but now there are hundreds or thousands bearing that mark, all modern knives.
Thanks Gene. JerryD out.
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The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by QTCut5 »

Y'all make some very good and salient points about "original" vs. "reproduction" knives and will get no argument from me in that regard, i.e., the older, vintage "originals" will always be more desirable to most collectors than the newer reproductions. I appreciate everyone's interest and input on this subject. I am always learning something new here on AAPK that I didn't know before. What a GREAT resource this is to hobbyist knife collectors (like me).

Now, to get back on track RE my original post and the whole point of this thread: I am still interested in the knife in the OP regardless of it's perceived "authenticity" and if anyone has one or knows where I can get one, I would really appreciate any help or information you can provide. ::handshake::
We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
In the master's chamber they gather for the feast.
They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by bkazz5 »

Just for reference here is an original EC Simmons Keen Kutter stamp. Sorry for the poor quality of the picture
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by Ridgegrass »

bkazz5: Now that's a knife ! Might br made by New York Knife ? She's a beauty! ::tu:: J.O'.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by cody6268 »

Looks great, but not like any I've seen before, original or later reproduction. I don't know if this helps, but I found this on the Keen Kutter website. That blurb seems out of date. Does the Schrade name refer to the "D-E" Imperials?


https://www.keenkutter.com/

Today, the Keen Kutter® trademark is owned by the Val-Test Hardware Group of Illinois. After Val-Test acquired the trademark, limited use authorization was developed for a premiere line of Keen Kutter® pocket-knives manufactured by Schrade Cutlery, Frost Cutlery and most recently Bear & Son Cutlery Co. to remain committed to the finest quality made in the U.S.A.
On another note, the individual who decided to price those Irish Imperials at $75 each needs mental help. They rarely go over $20. They really don't interest me (if I buy an Irish Imperial; it's from the Tradesman or Apex lines as I love the Zytel handles they use).
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by 1967redrider »

Trying to figure out what pattern(s) we're talking about, would you consider these to be mini-trappers? I bought that bottom knife with the hash mark from an AAPK member.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by bkazz5 »

Found one in the roll with a better tang stamp. Nice old pearl balloon whittler. All three blades stamped and a cool swedge on the main blade.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by Gunsil »

Sorry Q, I am with JD and Eric here, no modern S & M knives are "real" S & M knives, they don't have the same "soul" and never will. The OP knife is modern, no mistake about it. And not all original S & M knives were made in Titusville, the rarer ones were made in Gowanda, NY. The newer ones by Queen were just a marketing ploy like Daniels using old names. I like to let sleeping dogs lie, no need to wake them like re-using names of companies long past. I do not at all deny folks to collect what they like, that is their prerogative. I like antique original knives, if you like modern S & Ms, fine but they will never have the value of the originals. They are like Hummels or Christmas plates, nobody uses them, they will be mint forever, and there will always be hundreds or thousands of mint ones available.
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Re: WTB: EC Simmons Keen Kutter Mini Trapper

Post by Gunsil »

bkazz5 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 1:52 am Just for reference here is an original EC Simmons Keen Kutter stamp. Sorry for the poor quality of the picture
Man, that fish jack is one fine piece of antique cutlery!! A Walden product for sure!! That pearl whittler ain't too shabby either!! Thanks for showing such fine antiques!
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