exatly what is the classics ?

The W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Company has a very rich history that began in 1889 when William Russell (“W.R.”), Jean, John, and Andrew Case began fashioning their knives and selling them along a wagon trail in upstate New York. The company has produced countless treasures and it continues to do so as one of the most collected brands in the world.
User avatar
gmusic
Posts: 3145
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:27 pm
Location: Piute Mountains.
Contact:

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by gmusic »

This is the most excitement we have had in this forum in a year!

The "Case Classic" series is a great knife! True, there may have been liberties taken with the marketing program................but that does not diminish the quality and craftsmanship of the knives.

You see many companies offering 1 ofs and prototypes; and when a program as large and as ambitious as this one comes along, well.

Don't forget, this program span a period of 10 years. There are 36 or 37 patterns, dozens of handle materials, shields, tang stamps, blade shapes, etc. for each pattern, the combinations are nearly endless.

Take this one for example..............there may be three of them out there, and only one with these scales.
Attachments
Case#117.JPG
http://www.musicmadeknives.com

Rodger, (Rodger-50/2050), Bill (El Lobo), Johnny Fain (jonet143), Johnny Samples (Johnnyrotten),
Bill Price (CCBill)


Please feel free to contact any mod or admin with concerns.
User avatar
deanmm56
Posts: 936
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by deanmm56 »

Gary,

Could you ship that particular knife to my residence so I can inspect it just a little closer .... I promise to give it back in er, about 100 years, LOL

Darn pretty knife ... and yes, you are right ... the Case Classic series are great pieces of workmanship. Whoever made them .... they took pride in doing so. Something that has long been forgotten by most of corporate America.
Dean M. Morron

email : deanm56@aol.com

ebay as : deanm56635w
Aimus Moses
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:57 pm

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by Aimus Moses »

deanmm56 wrote:The building still stands with the equipment in place but due to a sagging economy, imports from everywhere, including China, hourly wage, productivity and the most important ..... the willingness of the American public to purchase the LEAST expensive products they can find, I'm afraid the knife making industry except for a few companies has went the way of the textile mills in North Carolina, the steel mills in Pennsylvania, the boot maker in Texas .... well you get my point. No I did not see anything being produced and Manchester, Ohio is pretty much a ghost town because of NO manufacturing. Which brings up another question ..... Blue Grass Cutlery made a series of Winchester knives ... bought some from David Scott while I was there, of course he showed me plenty of Case Classics as well .... none of them for sale. Oh, and the reproduction of the Case V 42 or is it the Case 42 V .... Devil's Brigade knife ..... made by none other than Blue Grass Cutlery.
So, were the Winchester series also fabricated by Queens ? Did Blue Grass Cutlery make anything ? I guess a call, email and letter to Mr. David Scott is in order.

Dean
To answer your question, yes, Queen makes most of the Winchester knives offered by Blue Grass Cutlery. Blue Grass Cutlery doesn't even make the John Primble brand of knives they offer. To my knowledge Blue Grass Cutlery doesn't make any knives period. Queen made the Case Classics and some of the Winchester knives. I know this to be fact because Queen Cutlery told me so when I spoke with them. Queen even went as far as to repair a Case Classic knife for me because I contacted Case Cutlery and they told me they do not claim the Classic series as a Case Cutlery product and for me to contact Queen Cutlery because THEY made the Classics. I personally think Queen Cutlery went above and beyond by repairing a knife that didn't even have their name on it but they made it, so they repaired it, 20 years after they made it. I don't know what you may have been told at Blue Grass Cutlery but contact Queen Cutlery and ask them about the Case Classic series and who made them. Also while your at it ask them about how many REAL prototypes, salesman samples, and 1 of ?(put your own number here) Classic knives were REALLY made and marked as such by them. Yes, there are a LOT of proto, salesman samples, and 1 or #? Classic knives marked that way but they all didn't come that way originally from Queen Cutlery. There's some other people who were involved with the Classic series that are etch pen happy with the Classic knives. You can see their results everyday on Feebay. If Blue Grass Cutlery makes knives they wouldn't have Queen making their Winchester brand now and have their John Primble brand contracted out. Queen isn't very hush, hush about the Case Classics, and neither is Case Cutlery when you ask about a repair on a Case Classic knife. Queen Cutlery made them and should be proud to say they did because they are good quality made knives. I'd be very interested in hearing the reply you get from Mr. Scott at Blue Grass Cutlery about the Case Classic knives. And just to keep everything straight, boxing up, putting a 1 year warranty paper in the box with the knives, and shipping them isn't considered making the knives. I mean you no ill will, nor nothing personal toward you Dean regarding this post. If I offened you, I apologize to you, you are not my target. This post is about the long drawn out questions of the Case Classic knives. It's about time for the B.S. to be stopped about the Case Classic series knives and who really made them. It's not like it's a matter of national security God's sake.

Aimus
User avatar
wishful
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:02 pm
Location: Northern NY

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by wishful »

Well put!
Life would be meaningless if we couldn't wish for anything.
User avatar
gmusic
Posts: 3145
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:27 pm
Location: Piute Mountains.
Contact:

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by gmusic »

Hello Aimus,

Please do something for me. When you have time maybe you could ask your friends at Queen Cutlery to revile the correct number of protos, SSs, and 1 ofs so we can clear this mystery up. I am very curious about this myself.

Thanks, Gary
http://www.musicmadeknives.com

Rodger, (Rodger-50/2050), Bill (El Lobo), Johnny Fain (jonet143), Johnny Samples (Johnnyrotten),
Bill Price (CCBill)


Please feel free to contact any mod or admin with concerns.
Aimus Moses
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:57 pm

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by Aimus Moses »

Gary I did ask Queen Cutlery for a number when I spoke with them. A person at Queen told me no where close to as many as has been claimed to be made by other people involved with the series, and most definitely not as many as what's shown up on Feebay. The person at Queen said if we made that many proto, S.S., and 1 of's that are claimed to be, we would have had to run as many of those a day as we did the production knives. I asked for a guesstimate (is that a word?) on just the prototypes and the answer I got was "VERY FEW REAL ONE'S". I said that I had read somewhere about the amounts of proto, S.S., and 1 of's was hard to tell. The person at the other end of the phone laughed and said "I read Goldie Locks and the three bears but I don't believe it ever happened!". I was asked if I believed everything I read. I replied no, not everything, only the Bible for sure. Then I was told that I shouldn't believe everything that I read about the proto, S.S., and 1 of's. The person I spoke with said the number of proto, S.S, and 1 of's were over inflated just like their prices were in certain books, and the reason was greed for money. They continued by saying "you can believe what someone writes in a book, but I work where the Classics were made and I was working here when the Classics were made, so I know better, and the other people involved with them does too". That person said if I wanted a proto, S.S., or 1 of's Classic to get an etch pen and make one because they are still being pumped out everyday now.

Aimus
User avatar
deanmm56
Posts: 936
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by deanmm56 »

Aimus,

No offense taken in any form or fashion ..... as a collector I am just trying to learn. I will definitely pen that letter to Mr. Scott .... here's hoping i get a reply and please read my previous post as well.

Thanks,

Dean
Dean M. Morron

email : deanm56@aol.com

ebay as : deanm56635w
User avatar
deanmm56
Posts: 936
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by deanmm56 »

Another viewpoint from a Case Collector :

As I understand it from personal conversations with David Scott, Blue Grass Cutlery produced the Classics under license from W.R. Case & Sons. This was granted when Jim Parker owned WRC. Blue Grass Cutlery manufactured ‘most’ of the bone scales that were used in the Classics with the only ‘original’ Rodgers jigging machine left in the states. The materials used for the celluloid’s/plastic/etc. scales were purchased as scrap from a totally different industry. David also told me that he purchased the Stag that was used.

According to David Scott, President of BGC, the WRC contract was for many patterns and BGC could sell them to any market should WRC failed to meet their obligation for any reason. See part of my correspondence with David Scott in the Winchester/Case article. The contract was for the first series of Classics – many patterns - and BGC paid WRC a royalty for each knife. When Jim lost WRC, he essentially became a distributor for BGC. In my conversations with David, he acknowledged Queen as a major player as well as another ‘un-named’ source. That in addition to the four patterns made at WRC. Keep in mind that WRC, like other cutlery companies, contracted knives from other manufacturers for many-many years.

On the side of most boxes used in the Classics, we read “BGC … Produced… “. I’ve also been told by David that BGC made the Classics. But if we look at the big picture, ‘made-to-order’(click) is pretty much the same as ‘produced’(click) which totally differs from saying WRC, Queen and the infamous Secret Squirrel ‘manufactured’(click). The question: “Is BGC the Secret Squirrel?”

It has always been a case of semantics, Dean. It can take a lot of one-on-one conversations to see a relationship. Keep up the quest, my friend!
Dean M. Morron

email : deanm56@aol.com

ebay as : deanm56635w
Aimus Moses
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:57 pm

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by Aimus Moses »

Dean, I'm sorry if I sounded angered and offended you. That was not my intent and I apologize to you. I'm just so sick of people trying to keep the Case Classic series a big secret. As far as BGC putting handles on the Classic knives, they may have done the "PROTOTYPES, S.S., & 1 of's" exotic handled knives. I have a Case Classic knife that has Cocobolo wood handles on it. It's pattern number starts with a 7. It's not marked as a "Money" knife (proto, S.S. or 1 of) but I know it's not one of them "Money" knives and it did not come with those handles originally as a Case Classic. I do not take anything from the Case Classic knives. Everyone that owns one has a quality made knife. Mr. Levine gave the best advice about knives, read the knife, not what's written on it.

Aimus
User avatar
deanmm56
Posts: 936
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:52 pm

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by deanmm56 »

Aimus,

Again, I took no offense in your posting. As a collector of Classics for just a few years I want to learn as much as possible concerning who made them, when , where and how. So, I'm searching for the truth, for with the truth you find out the real history of the knives. Through this one discussion I've learned a lot and thank all who took time to post.

Dean
Dean M. Morron

email : deanm56@aol.com

ebay as : deanm56635w
trail
Posts: 1325
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:14 am

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by trail »

I applaud all concerned for the gentlemanly and courteous conduct of this debate. It's not something you see at all web sites but certainly here at AAPK that would be expected. As someone who knows nothing at all about Case Classics but is willing to learn - is it possible that the facility in Ohio put the handles on knives built by Queen? If the BRC people had good sources of handle material and some craftsmen who knew how to handle it, perhaps they bought the framed-out knives from Queen and finished them at the Ohio plant. That would explain Queen and BRC both claiming to have "built" the knives. Just a speculation...
User avatar
Rusty1
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:39 pm
Location: Easton PA

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by Rusty1 »

More info here at the Case Classics Club.

http://caseclassicsclub.com/

Russell
User avatar
Rookie
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 1781
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:13 pm
Location: Meadville, PA

Re: exatly what is the classics ?

Post by Rookie »

I know this is a 4 year old conversation, but I wanted to throw in some information. Most Case Classics were made completely by Queen Cutlery, then sent to Bluegrass to be packaged by them in their own boxes. All Winchester repo's except for the metal handled bronze knives were made by Queen Cutlery, then sent to Bluegrass to be packaged by them. I know the master cutlery and the head salesman from the late 70's - early 80's era, and have talked with them about this very subject before.
Carl B.
Post Reply

Return to “Case Knife Collector's Forum”