Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

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WillyCamaro
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by WillyCamaro » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:39 am

All I can say too this un...
::rotflol::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Mumbleypeg » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:51 am

samb1955 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:04 pm
kootenay joe wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:46 pm
The real answer is: don't make unnecessary driving trips. There is an environmental cost whether vehicle is gas or electric.
There is no doubt that Earth is suffering from our resource extraction & use in addition to our population of nearly 8 billion people.
The 'heyday' of "do whatever you want whenever you want to" is over. There is an environmental cost to all the stuff we buy and most of it we don't actually need. The intensity of wildfires, hurricanes, etc. is increasing because of human activity. We all need to act more responsibly.
kj
Good luck with that.
It could happen sooner than you think. How did we all come to be paying for those subsidies on electric powered vehicles, windmills, etc. ::hmm::

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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TPK » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:25 am

Sharpnshinyknives wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:27 am
Just saw on the news that experts are saying that this mandate WILL over tax the electric grid in CA. The governor wants the only nuclear power plant in the state closed by 2025 and the state completely green by 2045. So I come back to my original post that this is going to cause major problems in California when millions of cars every day are plugged into a system that depends on the sun to shine and the wind to blow, with NO backup.
Not to worry though, these liberal politicians always have a scapegoat, it will be PG&E’s fault and not theirs. They will also blame profiteers from other states that sell them emergency power at ludicrous prices when they run out of power.
Well, see it posative Mark. Brings up a lot of investment ideas doesn't it. ::hmm::
Car makers, wind, solar, electrical companies in the surrounding states and so on. But maybe the best one is companies who build & or run the electrical "Gas Stations".

Germany wants the same kind of stuff as Cali. Or at least they pretend to want it, and they keep talking about it but they have close to zero "Gas Sations" where you can reload or recharge your battery. ::dang::
Electrical cars with No infrastructure = stupid goal! ::dang:: They keep saying people should buy electrical cars, nobody knows where to recharge em if ya take a longer trip. ::dang:: Ya need a whole ssttload of "Gas Stations" for this type of goal. Not just in Germany but throughout Europe. Or not just in Cali., but throughout the US. Sooner or later we will drive electrical cars. Or they will drive us I should say. But the infrastructure has to come first IMO. ::hmm::

Just thinking out loud. :mrgreen:
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:36 pm

Tom, I think you are absolutely correct. The infrastructure MUST lead the expansion of alternative fuel vehicles. If we are stuck on conventional batteries (not super capacitors), then the only viable solution is to swap battery packs instead of recharging in the car. If the car was designed for quick battery swap, then I think it could be done in about the same time as a gas fill-up. Of course, the big challenge is then being able to store and recharge battery packs at the fill-up station. Can you imagine how many charged battery packs a busy station would need to have on hand? The size and weight of the packs is huge.

I think we must have the super capacitor technology - or - hydrogen fuel cells. Fuel cells are awesome tech. They produce electricity, and the waste is just warm water vapor. They can either run on hydrogen directly, or they can use other gases (like natural gas) that is first broken down to extract the hydrogen for the fuel cell. You get the efficiency of an electric vehicle without the problem of battery recharge time. Of course, now you need an infrastructure for the hydrogen or natural gas delivery. In my humble opinion, we should have been building that infrastructure 50 years ago.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Sharpnshinyknives » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:06 pm

T. Boone Pickens tried to build infrastructure for natural gas powered semi trucks about 10 years ago. The company was called Clean Energy Fuels. Everything looked to be coming along well, he had companies signed up to use the stations and commitments from many companies to change over their fleets to natural gas. Then something happened. Cummins decided to stop development of the natural gas engines that would power the semi’s. What happened was this. Companies that had made commitments to change their fleets over decided it didn’t make economic sense. The extra cost of the semi’s w/ the natural gas engines wouldn’t be recouped in the expected lifetime of the trucks. Over 100 Clean Energy Fuel stations were closed. Pickens did it right, he had apps for people to use to plan a route for a trip across the country where they could refuel natural gas vehicles, he put the filling stations in first and had commitments, but the economics of it caught up to it. Pickens poured billions into this project. There was no bigger cheerleader for natural gas in this country than Pickens.
I’m not sure who would have to build out the infrastructure to make alternatives to gasoline work. If the govt does it, then it won’t be done timely, cheaply or efficiently. Plus you will have too many connected people getting a piece of the action to funnel back to politicians like we have now.
If the private sector does it, then it’s got to make economic sense and a profit needs to be made. The key to all this is not the government deciding when this will happen and picking winners and losers, it’s has to be the fundamentals that drive this to work. The problem has been been for decades that we just aren’t there yet. Any state or country that tries to implement all this green energy nonsense is going to be at a huge disadvantage to those that don’t. I for one don’t want my state or country dictating to me what to drive. When they do, it’s no longer a free country. The people of California will be driven out of their own state by the inefficient mandates that drive up the cost of living and are extremely inconvenient. California is setting the stage for their own demise.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by Mumbleypeg » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:24 am

Sharpnshinyknives wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:06 pm

I’m not sure who would have to build out the infrastructure to make alternatives to gasoline work. If the govt does it, then it won’t be done timely, cheaply or efficiently. Plus you will have too many connected people getting a piece of the action to funnel back to politicians like we have now.
If the private sector does it, then it’s got to make economic sense and a profit needs to be made. The key to all this is not the government deciding when this will happen and picking winners and losers, it’s has to be the fundamentals that drive this to work. The problem has been been for decades that we just aren’t there yet. Any state or country that tries to implement all this green energy nonsense is going to be at a huge disadvantage to those that don’t. I for one don’t want my state or country dictating to me what to drive. When they do, it’s no longer a free country. The people of California will be driven out of their own state by the inefficient mandates that drive up the cost of living and are extremely inconvenient. California is setting the stage for their own demise.
Amen!

Ken
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:49 am

I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said - I hate gov't mandates like this. They aren't driven by the science, they are driven by politics and marketing. I just want to point out that the universe is NOT going to wait for us "to be ready". We are burning the oil at a tremendous rate, and that can't continue forever. We can't just sit and wait for someone else to fix everything so that we never have to change. We need to be willing to examine the possibilities and support new technologies that make sense.
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by 1967redrider » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:36 pm

Our neighbors' have a daughter stationed at North Island Naval Station in San Diego and I was talking to them yesterday. Her father said she stays on the peninsula because the homeless situation there and at every costal city from Mexico up is beyond comprehension. He said they have converted buses into toilet facilities so people aren't defecating on the sidewalk, used needles are everywhere.

His opinion is inept and incompetent political decisions have caused this, and he's a true rocket scientist by profession. I have no reason to doubt what he told me and I now have no desire to travel there and witness this mess for myself. Things you won't see on the evening news. ::facepalm::
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:31 am

I have lived in California my entire life, and in a "coastal city" of California for almost 40 years. Homeless issues in California didn't start recently. These issues have existed for as long as I can remember and were no different no matter who was in the Governor's chair. Have you spent much time in major cities anywhere in America? Go to downtown Chicago (in the Summer & Spring!), Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Baltimore, Miami, Phoenix (not in the Summer!), etc, etc. America has a homeless problem. Now, consider this: If you are homeless and living on the street, would you rather be on a street in Chicago, or a street in San Diego? A street in Detroit, or a street in Santa Monica? It is a heck of a lot easier to be homeless in a place where the temperature is 60 - 80 deg all year long! The average rental for a 1-bedroom apartment in San Diego is $1800/month. Renting one bedroom in a 4 bedroom house will cost you a minimum of $700/month (in a lousy location). Becoming homeless is not difficult in coastal California. Why is the rent so high? Because a lot of people want to live here...
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Re: Only in California. This is some crazy stuff...

Post by zzyzzogeton » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:54 am

Expect to suddenly see alternative fuel engines developed and distribution for those fuels enabled as we run out of fossil fuels. There are people working on it now. They just don't want to make them available just yet.

For years, there have been stories about inventors coming up with high mileage engines, alt-fuel engines, etc Then the engines disappear from discussion, with stories of said engines being bought by major oil companies.

Are these conspiracy theories true? Are big oil companies keeping high efficiency engines and alt-fuel engines off the market until they have milked every $$ the can out of fossil fuels knowing that their fossil fuel resources will be worthless as soon as the world shifts to alt-fuel/hydrogen/fuel cell engines? Or are all these stories just pipedreams?

We won't know until it happens.

One thing about alt-fuel distribution systems. The existing gas/diesel distribution/sales networks developed by big oil could be shifted relatively easily to alt-fuels compared to the creation of a new distribution system for battery recharging or battery swap-out systems.

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