Air Rifles

[RobesonsRme.com]

Can anyone here explain to me, in plain speak, the trajectory and vertical drop of a .177 caliber pellet fired from a rifle barreled spring gun at an assumed muzzle velocity of 1000 fps?

Apparently, it is not similar to an M-14 rifle.

Charlie Noyes

[tallguy606]

I shoot a lot of air rifles. Most "1,000 fps" rifles in .177 really shoot in mid to high 800 fps range. I would estimate at 50 yards an 8-grain dome pellet from this gun would drop around 4 inches. Would shoot high at 25 yards if zeroed for 50 yds.

[RobesonsRme.com]

It is scoped and I zeroed it to the back fence, a distance I estimate to be about 25 yds. It is also the limit at which I would shoot a chipmunk in the back yard.

In about three weeks, I have shot 15 chipmunks and 15 squirrels, but the last few days, I have been missing.

I suspect I’m shooting high on the close ones and low on the far.

Have not dropped, bumped or done anything else to dislocate the scope.

Thinking about taking it off and using the iron sights.

The air gun is a Stoeger X10 and claimed to shoot 1200 fps out of the box. I know that’s dubious.

I don’t actually know the weight of the pellets I’m using. It’s not listed on the container. When these are gone, I’m going to buy some heavy domed pellets. Accuracy is supposed to be better with heavier ones.

Thanks for the input.

Charlie

[RobesonsRme.com]

As to trajectory, at what two distances down range does the pellet pass through the same point, vertical height wise?

Or, if zeroed at a measured 25 m, at what distance does the pellet return to that vertical height?

Charlie

[deo-pa]

Perhaps this can be of some help: http://www.airguns.net/trajectory.php.

Dennis

[RobesonsRme.com]

Deopa; the complexity of that calculator is pretty much what prompted my request for “plain speak”.

Charlie

[claywall]

You might, also, check your scope. Spring (break-barrel) air rifles are notorious for throwing scopes off that are not rated for a springer. They actually sell scopes rated for break-barrel air rifles that can withstand the forward and backward recoil. Yes, springers do undergo forward and backward recoil, but I cannot get into that here. Check out Pyramyd Air for such scopes. If you used a good powder burner scope on your air rifle, that does not necessarily mean it will perform well on a spring-piston air rifle. Good luck.

[doglegg]

Amen to what Claywall said.

[RobesonsRme.com]

The scope came with the air gun.

I was aware of what a spring powered air gun can do to a scope.

Should I not assume the scope supplied is rated for spring gun use?

I shot a bottle of water this afternoon at under fifty feet and the rifle is definitely shooting low. At least two inches or more at that distance.

Bummer.

But, it explains why I’m not hitting anything.

I printed off some sighting targets and will attempt to zero the scope again tomorrow, if I have time.

Charlie

[mrwatch]

I am aware of the break open spring type air rifles and CO2. I have a vintage Benjamin pump up rife where the more you pump the stronger out put. It has been sitting several years as I didn't heed the note to not put oil in the tiny hole. Not sure what type action this really is called? Also I think the tiny bit of oil softened the leather? Is their an easy fix besides hoping it will eventually dry out and work again?
Thanks, Bob

[RobesonsRme.com]

These groups were shot at 25 yds using a rest, but I still had a good bit of motion, some consistent with breathing, some with heartbeat.

The circled hits were the initial group. I went up two clicks on the scope and right one click.

The next two groups of three were terrible, with two complete misses. There should be nine holes in the paper.

Don’t know what I’m doing wrong.

I’m going back to baseline on the scope and see what happens.

Bottom photo is my line of sight.

Charlie

[Eye Brand Man]

From my past experience with break barrel spring piston guns. I have never been able to keep tight groups with a scoped one . I've pulled my hair out trying. I've had great success with pumpers especially Benjamin's.

[claywall]

Charlie, after seeing your target results another thought occurred to me. I do not know how familiar you are with air rifles, but I had to learn this: each and every air rifle will "like" certain pellets and not "like" others. If you are just using what came with the gun or some pellets you already had when you got the gun, that might be the problem. It takes trial and error and you need to shoot several brands/types of pellets through your air rifle to see which one (or ones) it prefers. It sucks, but that is a fact. I have numerous air rifles and they do not and WILL not shoot all the same pellets accurately. The good news is that when you find that RIGHT pellet, it will put a smile on your face when you start grouping 5 shots that you can cover with a quarter at 25 yards! Some of the best pellets I've found are JSB Exact (Czechoslovakian) and H&N Sport (Germany). There are MANY others, though. Go online and look at some of the selection Pyramyd Air offers. You can even purchase "sampler" packs that have 5 or 6 different styles and weights of pellets in it so that you can, hopefully, find one of those that your rifle likes.

As to Stoeger air guns, I think they are pretty good, but I would not bet my paycheck on them selling the rifle with a "springer-rated scope" already on it. Hang in there. With air rifles, it's a journey. I started in 2014, and it has been a fun and educational 5 years.

[WillyCamaro]

What claywall said!
I finally bought my first air rifle back in April. It's the Benjamin Classic .22 rated at 495fps, so i don't need firearms licence. I am running Crosman Premier 14.3 gr. Hollow points through it right at the moment. My gun seems to like these ones. I haven't started to monkey around more with it, keep running out of energy before i get a chance to shoot him much. Brother killed a gofer at about 15 yards, right through the neck. Drop off at about 50 yards is actually quite consistent. I am thinking with different ammo i can hit stuff out to 100 yards with some confidence. Need to get my scope zeroed out before i can do anything. It's a pretty nice one, came with the gun. Center Point 3-9x40 mm. with Red/Green Illuminated Reticle with Adjustable Objective. But it is waaaaaaay over kill for what i need. Or is it? I was thinking of going with air gun tactical style. I am thinking 3-9x20 or something like that. Zoom out to 100 yards max. And better low light quality. For peat sakes, why do you need a rimfire scope on a low power air gun?
Sales guy said the scope is worth more then the entire gun. Or peep site would work better? I know my brother is getting big into guns, i'll ask him. It has dovetail rails so i can fit just about anything. What do you guys think?
Thanks

[deo-pa]

Keep commenting and writing guys! I taught my daughter to shoot with a pellet pistol and for years I've thought off and on about acquiring an air rifle for plinking and target shooting, so all the back and forth in this post is getting me psyched up again. Don't want to hijack the discussion of trajectory, scope selection, etc. so if anyone has any suggestions for forums, recommendations for entry level equipment, or even used guns for sale drop me a PM or email. Thanks,

Dennis

[WillyCamaro]

Hey Dennis.
Not a problem!
You can't go wrong with anything from Benjamin. Mine was the classic. High quality for not a lot. I think around $200. Payed a little more but very high quality. Only problem it weighs a lot. Solid walnut hardwood stock might have something to do with it!
Best part,
She has noise and kicks a bit! Like a real rifle!

[RobesonsRme.com]

There are forty instructional/educational videos at Pyramid Air.

I have watched several today.

Their advise is to zero the gun at 20 yds. That will put the pellet on target for a pretty good range of distances.

I'm thinking of taking the rifle to a local range to do that.

They also advocate what they call the "Artillery Hold" and it makes perfect sense for a spring gun.

The scope on my rifle is marked STOEGER AIR RIFLE, but the whole rig is Chinese, so who knows.

The gun gets good reviews everywhere I look.

I cannot afford a high dollar scope right now.

Charlie

[royal0014]

Charlie, if you had been hitting where you aimed successfully,
and now you can't hit the side of the proverbial barn, then it's you or the equipment.

The fact that the hits were worse after you tried to zero the scope is a huge hint.

Several years ago I bought a tack driver 10/22 from a friend.
Had it for awhile, quite reliable shooter. One outing came and I could't hit a thing.
After several attempts to correct by moving the 'clicks' to compensate, and each time getting worse,
we finally realized that one of the crosshairs in the scope was broken!


If your rifle has iron sights, I would suggest using those as a process to determine
if the scope is the issue ....

Hope this helps ... if not .. well, that's normal for me ....

[mrwatch]

I learned years ago if sighting in a scope to lock the rifle in place like with a B & D workmate. One guy I worked for was wasting ammo, I locked it and with a new target I fired one 22 round, and went and put my finger on the hole. Way off, they usually use mirrors so he wasting ammo. Also zero sight a wooden stock to check for worpage before a big game hunt. What do you guy's think of the CO 2 powered rifles and hand guns? I found one at a garage sale and need to buy some for it.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Depends on where you live. I've learned from the Pyramid Air videos that CO2 airguns loose significant power in cold weather.

I have also learned that air powered handguns are much more sophisticated than the old Benjamin and Daisy pumps from my youth.

Charlie

[Doc B]

I didn't see that anyone mentioned it...and you've probably already checked ...but loose mounting screws, on your scope can result in the scope being in a little different position, after every cock. I chased a sighting once, like that, on a gun, to find out it was just a loose mounting screw.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Mounts are tight to the rifle, scope is tight in the mounts.

Not a hint of play.

Thanks.

Charlie

[WillyCamaro]

I am thinking take it into your local gun shop so they can look at it. They will set it up correctly, clean him. What i'v read every new ar needs a good cleaning. Also if your barrel rifling is damaged will wreck your accuracy. But if it is a new rifle you shouldn't have to worry about that. Another thing my brother just told me, is if there is any damage to the barrel end, will wreck the gun. But i don't think you should have any of these issues. Stoegers are very high quality guns. If you can't figure your problem out then best bet take it into gun shop. Also my advice don't spend allot of money on optics. The one that came with your gun is probably good enough. If you still want to go something different, google "best air rifle scopes" and they should come up. Lots of cheap high quality optics on the market these days. I got to get more active now with my gun. Getting gofer problem in the yard. Bench stands are the best way to zero scopes out. Also the seals on your gun could have issues. But probably not.
Hope that help!

[WillyCamaro]

Gave me rifle good cleaning last night, on the cheap!
Used fishing line, simple green, and blue shop towels. Worked great for now. Nice and shiny now when you look down the barrel. Huge difference over what is was. Every rifle out of the box is full of dirty oil/junk. Keeps from rusting during transport.
Seems to shoot better now (open sights).
Doing bunch of research, Crosman/Benjamin are the best buys for the money. I really like the looks of the .22 Trail 1100 fps. Uses the nitro piston and better barrel. Center Point optics, that come with them, are the best of the reasonable priced scopes on the market. I got the 3-9x40AOE. It is quite good for what they cost, around $70 usd. You can get $$$ CP's, but is not worth it IMHO. There are better options out there at over $100.
Vortex optics are air gun rated and extremely high quality for not a lot of dough. I looked through the Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x50 ($309 cnd) and 2-7x32 Rimfire ($199 cnd). Boy is it leaps and bounds better quality! I think it pays to upgrade to better glass. The big one is perfect for air gunning. You can spend even more, even better. But i think these are perfect. Even the small one is super! They use top quality glass in all there optics. Me bro picked up a new set of Crossfire bino's for $300. They look awesome too.
But if you don't wan't to spend $$$ in upgrades, there are a few things you can do for cheap to make your gun better. New scope mounts (only thing i hate about the gun), good cleaning (should do anyway), and a small rc bearing in the trigger pivot mechanism (ditch the stupid trigger adjustment screw/spring and make trigger pull soooooo much nicer, almost hare) and stretch the spring 1" (radically increases fps and ftps). Other then that she should be good to go.
One other big thing. Buy a bunch of different ammo, from different makers. Test all lead to see what works best with your gun. There is no perfect/one fits all shot. Just have to do trial n' error. Once you find the best one, stick with that one!
Right now i am running Crosman Premier 14.3 gr. Hollow Points and Pointed and my classic really seems to like these. When i stretch the spring things might change.
When you stretch the spring in these (spring piston type) you gain anywhere from 25% to 75% more fps! Just don't go hog wild, maybe an inch at the most.
Also go with bigger calibers them .177. Much more humane kills.
If i find out anything else i'll let you know!

[RobesonsRme.com]

This is the view out the window of our master bathroom, my “Hidey-Hole” from which I generally shoot at the chipmunks.

On the zoomed photo, between the tree and the iron pole, there is a stump, back close to the end of the property.

This morning, I knocked a chipmunk off that stump.

My aim point was about four inches above the chipmunk and he went right over.

Charlie