DOGS IN TROUBLE

[Quick Steel]

Mumbleypeg: Couldn't agree more with you. The chemicalization of our culture is out of control. I see that some potato farmers keep a patch of potatoes separate from their commercial plots. This is so that their families will not be consuming the fungicides, herbicides, pesticides, etc. that go on the crops that will be sold.

[sam eib]

I think they're trying to kill us off before social security goes bust.

[americanedgetech]

It's not funny how almost any conversation involving "health" will ALWAYS come back to "corporate profits"'

Every farmer on this forum will attest to "hybrid" seed, and the annual purchasing of said.
In fact it has gotten to the point that IF you decide NOT to use hybridized seed you will no longer qualify for the farmers insurance programs.
In essence it is "Play by the rules WE make or you are gone". Where does this begin? Dow, Dupont, PGP, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, Eastman... The list is too long.
How do they get theirs "bad" products out? Lobbyists. Lobbyists pay the people that WE elect to protect us. But rather than protecting us, these law school, business school or silver spoon butt wipes get wealthy by allowing their new BFF-s to kill us.

Dramatic? Yeah!!!
Based on fact? You tell me.
'We see pets dying because they are more susceptible to the toxins for the reasons MumbleyP suggests. We see family/friends dying all the time from reasons that should not exist.
If your watch can count your steps, pulse, and tell you how much "quality sleep" you had, then the people that are "protecting" us should/CAN be held accountable.

MONEY Honey. That is all there is to all the wrong people.

[CheckSix]

Another factor is the quality (or lack thereof) of the water supply and what is in the analysis of it. Metals, organic compounds, you name it. Can't be good for living creatures. That's why I own and use a Berkey water filtration system. It has 4 carbon and 4 molecular sieve filters. It serves all of our consumable water for us and the dogs.

[americanedgetech]

Very good point CheckSix.

Carrabelle has had to deliver monthly water quality warnings for the first 7 years I lived here.
Funny thing this... It was not organic matter they were warning about. It was the very chemicals they were adding, and the resultant compounds they had created.

Washing a pair of work clothes in City water meant I had to replace my clothes every 6-7 months rather that 6-7 YEARS! imagine what it did to living beings?

I also have a whole house filter system for washing, dishes ect. but we live on distilled water. 7 big dogs, 4-5-6-7-8 IDK how many cats, a dozen chickens, and a couple of adults every day.
It adds up to a larger house in payments.

But... this is about dogs. God bless them all because he blessed us with them.

[zzyzzogeton]

I used to give my dogs distilled water to avoid exposing them to the chlorine and flouride that is added to our tap water, as well as the high calcium levels that occur naturally in our reservoir trapped water supply.

After about a month on distilled water, one of my dogs, a red heeler named "Spice", started peeing on the floor rather than going outside like she has always done since being trained. Thinking she might have developed a urinary tract infection of some sort, I took her to the vet. He could find no sign of an infection and he started playing 20 questions with me.

When I answered "distilled water" for "what kind of water is she drinking?" I was advised to use spring water or rain water instead.

When you use distilled water, ALL minerals are removed and if a dog is a picky eater, may become mineral deficient, Another side effect of distilled water is that the dog drinks more water trying to get minerals and they end up peeing more.

Since I already nearly 6000 gallons of rainwater storage, if was easy enough to shift them over rain water. Within 24 hours of being on rain water, the red heeler quit having accidents.

Later, the blue heeler "Sugar" started peeing on the floor while she was asleep. Took her to the vet. When we couldn't come up with any other reason, he put her on "hormone pills". He said that dogs can go through menopause just like humans. 1/2 a tablet 2x per day. Within 48 hours, the peeing had stopped. She started getting "aggressive", so I asked the vet about dropping the dose and he said sure, experiment if I wanted to see what dosage kept her from peeing but not aggressive. I kept reducing the dosage until she peed on the floor. The dosage that works with her not being aggressive is 1/2 a pill every 2 days.

[americanedgetech]

Now that is something that hits home.
Not my home but a friends.
She has a Schnauzer that started peeing in the house, and this girl dog is about 10 years old. Perhaps it is menapaws...LOL
The vet gave her penicillin but nothing has changed in two weeks. I'll mention this tomorrow as we already discussed this thread together.
Thanks for that info. ZZY It might help.

On distilled water I do agree, and I was concerned until I looked into it further. All of the bottled waters today are filtered water. No matter what the source. Most are tap water from where ever, and have the same issues as any tap water will have.
The filters (including Activated Carbon) will remove/reduce most of the minerals anyway so Back to a proper diet...

In the beginning I mentioned my mom was a Vet. JD's Kennels was her business name out of Jamesport, Long Island.
Mom raised "Westies" that sold for 20 grand. No joke! She spent 3-4 grand just flying in a specific dog for breeding so my point is... We had "Temic" (https://www.google.com/search?client=op ... 8&oe=UTF-8) in our water, and distilled water was GOLD out there. All of the North Fork of Long Island was paid to buy whatever water they needed by Union Carbide. This may still be the case I am not sure. For 12 years we all lived on distilled water. Dogs, sheep, goats, chickens, ducks, and whatever animal my mom took in. As long as the diet is correct, the water mineral deal is not really an issue
Varying the same quality foods that a healthy person would eat in a dogs diet is key to their well being.
At least this is MY take on it all.

Sorry for another rant. I get lost in certain topics, and this one is a biggie for me.
Thanks for the advice on MenaPaws ZZY.
If I have to post with less fingers YOU'LL know why!!!

[zzyzzogeton]

Ken,

The stuff is called "Proin 75mg". There's also a 25mg and 50mg versions, maybe for smaller dogs? Sugar is about 43#.

The paperwork claims they are "chewable" tablets. For the first 4 bottles (60 tablets each) all I had to do was hold a half-tab in front of her and she took it and chewed it up. When I got to the 5th bottle, she quit chewing it and now I have to cram it down her throat like we used to down with cows and those big-ass pills we gave them. I guess they changed the formulation or something and she doesn't like it any longer.

[americanedgetech]

Thanks sir,
I just looked it up.

It actually looks like those TV ads that promise a better night sleep but your brain "may" leak out your ear...

I'll have to look into it further. Something that may help your girl, and taking her pill is to get a spice grinder on FleaBay for 5 bucks.
The plug in the wall ones... They make quick work of tablets, and you can mix it w' a treat or her food.
Just be SURE to thoroughly wash it every time. If her meds change cross contamination can be serious.

Thanks again... I'll mention this, and let you know in the thread what happens.

[Quick Steel]

The following is from Whole Dog Journal.

You want the best for your dog - especially when it comes to his food. You read labels and try to choose the brand and formula that will nourish your furry friend.

That's why you'll be as shocked as I was, to discover that dozens of today's top-selling brands - names you thought you could trust, like Beneful, Pedigree, Purina and more - may not contain the wholesome, healthy ingredients you want for your dog.

Take Beneful. The package makes it look like manna from heaven with a healthy pup, fresh veggies, and what look like real chunks of meat. Unfortunately, the pictures make the food seem better than it is. The reality is this stuff is AWFUL for your dog. It's full of sugar, artificial colors, and 3 unnamed animal sources. And very little vegetables.

Or look at Kibbles 'n Bits Bistro Meals Grilled Chicken Flavor. If only it contained the grilled chicken they show on the bag instead of loads of low-quality ingredients and "animal digest" - the real source of the chicken flavor.

Another terrible food is Pedigree Complete Nutrition for Adult Dogs. Made with an inferior, cheap source of protein, it's a wonder it could maintain any dog's health - much less an adult dog's!

And wet foods fare no better than dry...

The label on Alpo Prime Cuts in Gravy Homestyle with Beef makes it look like big pieces of beef covered in gravy. But if this is your dog's dinner, she's getting some of the lowest-quality sources of protein, held together by wheat gluten! Even Iams ProActive Health Chunks is full of by-products that are often linked to all sorts of health problems.
Is your dog's food full of used restaurant grease?
When you see "animal fat" on a label - you probably think chicken skins or beef trimmings. But, pet food regulations allow manufacturers to use all sorts of low-quality fats, even USED RESTAURANT GREASE, as generic fat sources. To make sure your dog gets healthier fats, look for labels that use a named species of animal as a source of fat, like chicken fat or duck fat.
What's more, you could be paying for healthy ingredients that aren't even in the bag. For example, because omega-3 fatty acids are so healthy, dog food manufacturers started adding DHA and EPA (highly beneficial fatty acid supplements) to many dry foods. However, they are notoriously fragile and short-lived. Plus, exposure to oxygen makes them turn rancid - and potentially dangerous - very quickly.

So, how do you know which foods can help boost your dog's health and even add years to his life - and which ones you never want to put in his bowl?

Start a risk-free subscription to The Whole Dog Journal, the monthly publication that's dedicated to bringing you proven, natural solutions for keeping your dog healthy and happy for life! Filled with reviews of food, dry, wet and raw, The Whole Dog Journal is unlike any other publication.
How dry dog food causes cancer!
When manufacturers add low-quality ingredients imported from places without adequate safety oversight, and low-cost ingredients that are often shipped and stored without refrigeration - it makes it easy for these ingredients to become rancid. Rancid fats destroy the nutritive value of the proteins and vitamins in food so much, your dog can suffer from deficiencies even though he is eating well. What's worse, these rancid fats can cause diarrhea, liver problems, arthritis, heart problems and even cancer! Don't risk your dog's health. Subscribe to The Whole Dog Journal now.

[americanedgetech]

I wish I could respond with more, helpful information... I can't.
I think you nailed it!!!

I did mention the Prion to my buddy Pam, and she is following it up. I also asked what she fed her dog. PURINA!
Go figure.

We live in a county where we have nothing but velcro shoes, and generic everything.
ONE food store, and it is an IGA. Generic!!!

The rest of the world is 60 miles in any direction.
I'll bet anyone here that I can flick a cigar butt, and it WILL land on a spot where a dog has passed.

Dogs here are kept in cages for 10 months a year. Fed garbage, and let loose for a couple months to hunt hogs, and dog sized deer.
If the dog does NOT catch "dinner" it is left loose until it can not live any longer, Happy world huh? (Tates Hell)

People here do not understand me, and my dogs. Mine are family! Mine are mine!
Ps. I buy bacon, and do not eat dog sized deer. Just sayin'

[Unk]

I subsist mostly on the 3 basic food groups - What-a-burger, Domino's Pizza, and Blue Bell Ice Cream. My wife mainly eats a bucket of dry kale everyday. I can't figure out why she stays thin, yet I am fat.

On a serious note, the wife feeds our two 115 lb brutes Muenster Perfect balance Chicken Elite. They seem to like it. It gets 5 out of 5 stars on the dogfoodadvisor.com. So I guess that is Ok?

[americanedgetech]

Mmmmmmmm What a Burger!

If I didn't eat the same things as my dogs,Burger joints would be my downfall.
I just can't afford 10 burgers to go on a regular basis. (7 for the dogs, 1 for the cats, and one for me)

[Quick Steel]

Unk, since you ended your post with a question mark I'll express my opinion in answer. The rating service you referred to is to me worthless in this sense. They rate many dog foods 5 stars that are loaded with grains. If you will refer back to my earlier post, grains convert to sugar which feeds tumors and is a major reason so many dogs get fatty and cancerous tumors. Cancer thrives on glucose (sugar) which come from simple carbs such as grains. [This is true for us humans as well.]

Meunster is loaded with grains which are a simple carbohydrate. IMO [and more importantly in the opinion of researchers and medical experts this a very unhealthy diet. Many veterinarian recommended foods make this same mistake. First, no canine needs any carbs of any kind. But it is certainly fine to provide some complex carbs like carrots or other non-starchy veggies the dogs may enjoy. A great item for dogs and humans are organ meats like liver, kidney, heart. It is in the organ meats where the truly rich nutrition is found. This is why wild predators such as wolves, lions, mountain lions etc. always go first for the organ meats, not the muscle meats. Unfortunately, many humans no longer eat liver or other organ meats. The nutritional content of liver is awesome. Just google it in your browser if you are interested.

Also Unk, be aware that most packaged treats come from China. Even packages that say USA will sometimes be using ingredients from China that are then packaged here. Over time, there have been a couple of major health problems, even fatalities from these products.

Kindly give your dogs some scratches and pats from me.

[treefarmer]

americanedgetech/Ken Mc,
"Just sayin'", I've been following this thread and appreciate the insight concerning commercial dog foods and nutrition.
How long have you been a resident of Carrabelle? You seem to be experiencing some culture shock since you mentioned Long Island , New York.
Not all dogs have the luxury of living as part of a human family. Some actually work for men, kinda' like an EDC knife compared to a "safe queen". Deer hounds are an age old tradition in some parts of the world as are hog dogs and cow dogs. Not all, but the majority of men and women who use these "tough as nails" dogs are very responsible animal owners.
A cow dog will take the place of a half dozen men on horseback. The cow dogs I'm referring to are not the shepherds, Aussies, Border collies and such, they are the hounds crossed with American Bull or whatever, resulting in a highly valued "cur dog". A dog that will hunt, herd or catch a cow in the Florida woods. Hog dogs don't usually herd but they do hunt and catch. The deer hounds can't have free range for obvious reasons and the sport of deer hunting with hounds is restricted to large tracts of land.
Most, and I again emphasize most, dog people take excellent care of their canine employees. I am sorry you have found the residents of YOUR community to be so unconcerned about their dogs.
Treefarmer

[espn77]

Treefarmer, people who use there dogs to help them with there job have a totally different view and appreciation for them.

[americanedgetech]

I'm glad you pitched in on this Tree Farmer.
Is the culture shock that apparent???

The first issue (for me) is that hunting with dogs is neither necessary nor fair to the prey. 100 years ago sure. You had to survive, and a dog or several dogs stacked the odds in your favor. Today the "good ole boys load the cooler w/ Natural Light, load the glove box, and rear window w/ guns, and ammo, and load the bed of the truck w/ dogs that have spent the last 10 months living in 10x10 cages using 55 gallon drums for shelter.

These guys take pride in this insanity, and drive back to the gas station/restaurant (I'm sure you know the one I mean) with a dog sized deer barely big enough to make a sausage sandwich.
Even worse is the fact that they bait these animals all year with auto feeders that they remove the night before "The Hunt".

In MY opinion TF, this is not hunting nor are the dogs "working dogs".

Now I do have a friend that works his dogs up in Quincy. He is a full time hog catcher, and he works the crop fields up there.
His dogs are some of the best in the industry.
Tennessee Walkers for trailing/locating, and the bravest darn Pits that I have ever come across are his "catch dogs".
Those dogs WORK son. And they live on a 3 acre compound where he rotates "out time" amongst the dogs.

Yes they do get stapled back together fairly often but they are happy animals that love to work. That man, and his animals I respect!
Same sentiment goes to ANY man/woman/child that works, and cares for their dogs. Cop dogs to Zebra chasers... (Do they have those), as long as the animal has a job, and is respected as a necessary part of daily life I have no problem.
My dogs protect me, and my house. I do not even have keys for my house because I have the dogs.
My grand kids are safe, my GF is safe, and my tools are safe.

Not the same thing as these "great white hunters" of Carrabelle lore, and legend .

Remember the fella up your way, just a few years ago that was arrested for using dynamite to round up Mullet schools?
When he went to court his defense was, "I wuz jus tryin' to keep the dang Dolphins out-a my nets"> He thought that would bring sympathy vs schooling mullet for greed.

Yeah, it's quiet here, and the majority of people are wonderful. Fish frys, credit everywhere you go, collections if someone is in need...
Just don't leave ANYTHING laying in your yard or go to the Lav. during a card game. Lots of things go missing round here.

Including dogs.

[treefarmer]

Good Mornin', Ken.
My friend, you seem to have become acquainted with some upstanding individuals in your part of Florida. All Floridians that hold to some of the old traditions that you seem to find offensive, DO NOT fit the mold of "good old boys with a cooler full of beer" that you so colorfully described.
The "100 years ago" comment seems strange in that you are still apparently eating bacon and hamburgers. What difference does it make how the venison or pork is acquired as long as it was done legally? If it is killed in front of a pack of prized hounds or shot from an elevated shooting house, the finished product is still meat on your table and in your freezer. Not much different than purchasing pen raised venison for about $30 per pound. For the last 20 plus years I've planted food plots for the deer and supplemented them with automatic feeders, which by the way, is legal on private lands. Check the rule book.
The dog sized deer you disparage are the ones the good Lord put here. The further north the larger the deer's body to be able to cope with the colder climate. I'm not a biologist but that opinion/fact, seems to be accepted by reputable game biologists across our country.
I find it odd that you have not condemned bird and waterfowl hunters for their use of pointers and retrievers, surely folks can buy all the pen raised quail and ducks rather than subjecting a dog to such strenuous activities and conditions.
I'm glad you are acquainted with a hog catcher and are able to see and understand how that works. Cow dogs, hog dogs, bird/duck dogs, deer dogs, guard dogs, service dogs and lap dogs all need and deserve proper care.
Opinions vary and this is not the 1st discussion I've had with individuals over the years, who seem appalled at some Southern traditions, namely deer hunting with hounds. When I was a young man just off active duty from the Marine Corps, I had the occasion to have an interesting discussion with a man from New York concerning deer dogs. We met up in the big woods in south Lake County, Florida, several years before that area became the Green Swamp Wildlife Management Area. He said he would try to kill any dog he saw running a deer, that's how they did it back home. He wasn't malicious as he stated his opinion and to his credit he said he didn't know it was legal to run deer with hounds. I suppose our conversation may have saved him some grief had he popped one of "the good old boys" favorite deer hound.
I'm sorry I don't recall the incident you mentioned concerning the mullet and dynamite, we actually live probably 35 miles inland. Some folks are gonna' do wrong no matter what side of the Mason Dixon Line they are on.
Even though I've given up running deer dogs years ago, I still support the people who choose to do it within the bounds of the Game Commission rules.
We are dog owners/lovers, we have a Miniature Dachshund and an Aussiedor (Lab/Australian Shepherd cross). The little sausage dog is a certified cat killer. The barn cats fear him, the Aussiedor is a cat chaser, not a killer. She'll run a cat till it stops and she'll stand by 'til he runs again, probably the herding instinct coming out in her. She belongs to my wife but she loves to go to the woods with me and swims at every pond or fish hole. She is also a very successful blood trailer. She is supposed to be a yard dog but most nights she can be found on the living room floor rather than her actual 10'X10' pen in the back yard.
Ken, you and I will probably have to agree to disagree on some of this.
Treefarmer

[jlw257]

Very well said Mr. Phillip.