PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

If you can think of something to talk about that is not related to knives, discuss it here.
Post Reply
User avatar
steve99f
Posts: 2769
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Eastern PA

PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by steve99f »

What did you think of the opening series? ::tu::
steve99f
User avatar
RalphAlsip
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:01 pm
Location: Southern Illinois

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by RalphAlsip »

It was educational for me. I was not aware of the back story and how the US had been engaged with Ho Chi Minh many years before the direct US involvement that I witnessed on the nightly news.

I'm sure by the end of the series my disdain for politicians will increase and my high respect for Vietnam Veterans will increase even more.
User avatar
jerryd6818
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 39165
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:23 am
Location: The middle of the top of a bastion of Liberalism.

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by jerryd6818 »

I watched the first episode last night and as has been said, there was much I was not aware of. Watch but be wary of a jaundiced presentation. Ken Burns has a reputation among some quarters of leaning to the left and not always presenting facts in his documentaries. Watch but reserve the right to form your own opinion.

If you have time, read this on-line article on Ken Burns ---> http://www.aim.org/special-report/ken-b ... ng-gasbag/
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
User avatar
Paladin
Bronze Tier
Bronze Tier
Posts: 11411
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:20 am
Location: Near Austin, Texas, between a Rock and a Weird Place
Contact:

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by Paladin »

jerryd6818 wrote:I watched the first episode last night and as has been said, there was much I was not aware of. Watch but be wary of a jaundiced presentation. Ken Burns has a reputation among some quarters of leaning to the left and not always presenting facts in his documentaries. Watch but reserve the right to form your own opinion.

If you have time, read this on-line article on Ken Burns ---> http://www.aim.org/special-report/ken-b ... ng-gasbag/
I was suspicious of this and even though I have it on tape, I will keep my finger on the stop button.

Ray
Paladin

God Bless the USA
Please visit my store SWEETWATER KNIVES
"Buy more ammo" - Johnnie Fain
"I'm glad I ain't scared to be lazy." Augustus McCrae
User avatar
steve99f
Posts: 2769
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Eastern PA

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by steve99f »

I just assumed Burns' politics were liberal, no surprise there. Based on the link Jerryd posted, apparently he is. No matter, no one else has stepped up to do the work. His personal beliefs won't effect my viewing of the series. So far, as has been posted, some material that I wasn't aware of. How Kennedy changed his mind about Ho Chi Minh and his cause. The Red scare and the domino theory but I wonder if it wasn't something more he learned once he was elected President.
steve99f
User avatar
orvet
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 19336
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 6:23 am
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by orvet »

Many years ago I read quite a bit of history around the Vietnam War, from both sides. I have made peace with that chapter in my life and I don't need a left wing or right wing ideologue to accuse or absolve me of my participation, which was at the insistence of my government.

As far as watching anything on PBS goes, I would be more likely to read Hillary's new "book." :mrgreen: ::barf::
Dale
AAPK Administrator

Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet

Job 13:15

"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
User avatar
jerryd6818
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 39165
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:23 am
Location: The middle of the top of a bastion of Liberalism.

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by jerryd6818 »

I watch stuff on PBS. I'd like to think I've learned to separate the wheat from the chaff.

When I came back from Viet Nam, I very seldom acknowledged my service over there, not because I was ashamed of it or because it was a controversial subject but because I was not a Combat Marine and felt like I had done nothing of note. I don't make up stories so I didn't feel like there was anything to say if the subject came up or I was asked, except that I was there.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
User avatar
orvet
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 19336
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 6:23 am
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by orvet »

jerryd6818 wrote: When I came back from Viet Nam, I very seldom acknowledged my service over there, not because I was ashamed of it or because it was a controversial subject but because I was not a Combat Marine and felt like I had done nothing of note. I don't make up stories so I didn't feel like there was anything to say if the subject came up or I was asked, except that I was there.
No Combat Action Ribbon here either. Airdale's don't get CARs for fixing jet engines!
But I do know a lot of grunts who are very happy that you and I were doing our jobs so they could live through doing theirs! ::tu::
Semper Fi
Dale
AAPK Administrator

Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet

Job 13:15

"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
User avatar
jerryd6818
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 39165
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:23 am
Location: The middle of the top of a bastion of Liberalism.

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by jerryd6818 »

Yeah, I hear they loved it when those fast movers showed up on the scene.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
User avatar
RobesonsRme.com
Posts: 9887
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie.
Contact:

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

Jerry wrote: "I don't make up stories so I didn't feel like there was anything to say if the subject came up or I was asked, except that I was there."

You don't have to make up stories, you have them. They occurred on a regular basis to you and those around you.

90% of the stories I choose to share are funny or ironic or just human interest. I don't talk much about the other stuff unless I'm talking to other SF men that were also there and in similar situations. When I'm around the SOG guys that ran multiple missions into Cambodia or Laos, I just listen. I cannot contribute to that. Heck, I'm not even allowed into their organization.

But, everybody that was there has interesting stories to tell.

And yes, there was no prettier sight nor better sound than talking to a FAC and watching two F-105's doing figure-eights on the bad guys out in front of you. Saved my tootie at least three times. So, thank you Dale, for keeping them flying.

I'm not watching the Viet Nam series. No way Sarah would sit through that, but I am recording it and I will watch it at my leisure.

I'm not concerned about Ken Burns ideological view. I enjoyed The Civil War, Baseball and Jazz. He's not going to change my attitude or beliefs re' The American Phase of The Indo-Chinese War.

Charlie Noyes
DE OPPRESSO LIBER

"...Men may spurn our appeals, reject our message, oppose our arguments, despise our persons ___but they are helpless against our prayers. "

Sidlow Baxter
User avatar
jerryd6818
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 39165
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:23 am
Location: The middle of the top of a bastion of Liberalism.

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by jerryd6818 »

Charlie, growing up in S. Illinois/S. Indiana, "telling a story" or "making up a story" was a euphemism for lying. I do have some stories to tell. None are "sea stories" and some of them are almost interesting.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
wizrd
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:33 am

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by wizrd »

I thought it was not possible for me to have more love & respect for our 'Nam vets than I already have. - I was Wrong!
User avatar
steve99f
Posts: 2769
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Eastern PA

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by steve99f »

In tonight's show I learned that in the run up to the '68 (Nixon vs Humphrey) that Nixon made a deal with the So Vietnamese leader to not attend the peace talks then being planned, thereby helping defeat Humphrey as the peace talks were a big deal for the DNC at that time. He then lied to LBJ about it. LBJ knew he was lying but couldn't call him on it due to ways and means issues.

I don't recall this coming at any point. But then I didn't recall that the election was as close as it was. Wallace was running in that election too and won 5 states.
steve99f
User avatar
Quick Steel
Bronze Tier
Bronze Tier
Posts: 16953
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Lebanon, KY

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by Quick Steel »

I did not realize or recall that several of you were in the Air Force. I will just say a very heartfelt, God Bless you, whatever your assignment. I am here today because you and countless others like you were there for me yesterday.
User avatar
americanedgetech
Posts: 1552
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:40 am
Location: Florida Pan Handle
Contact:

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by americanedgetech »

jerryd6818 wrote:I watched the first episode last night and as has been said, there was much I was not aware of. Watch but be wary of a jaundiced presentation. Ken Burns has a reputation among some quarters of leaning to the left and not always presenting facts in his documentaries. Watch but reserve the right to form your own opinion.

If you have time, read this on-line article on Ken Burns ---> http://www.aim.org/special-report/ken-b ... ng-gasbag/
You might want to look into Tin mining in Viet Nam... If you don't trust Burns, you will really love Nelson Rockefeller. He OWNED the tin industry there, and war uses tin by the ton.
There was WAY more behind Nam than a "conflict". Wars make money. who wants any war? The people that own the industries that supply wars.
Why do you think the US is CONSTANTLY at war or conflict or policing the world. MONEY at the cost of human life.
Ken Mc.

WTB Kershaw 2120 MACHO Lockback Parts knife
I need a pile side scale. THX!
User avatar
fergusontd
Posts: 1821
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:03 pm
Location: West Central Ohio

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by fergusontd »

I worked in the enginroom of a destroyer, I didnt see much actual combat except for gunfire missions and following the carriers. I didnt receive the Combat Action Ribbon, so no
Heroic war stories for me either, just the daily routine of standing watch and turn to. ftd
"A pocketknife is a man's best friend!"
User avatar
jerryd6818
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 39165
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:23 am
Location: The middle of the top of a bastion of Liberalism.

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by jerryd6818 »

LtCol Ollie North (USNA '68) on Vietnam and comments on Ken Burns's Video version


By Oliver North - - Monday, October 16, 2017

ANALYSIS/OPINION:
When Richard Nixon was in the White House, I was in Vietnam and he was my commander in chief. When I was on Ronald Reagan’s National Security Council staff, I had the opportunity to brief former President Nixon on numerous occasions and came to admire his analysis of current events, insights on world affairs and compassion for our troops. His preparation for any meeting or discussion was exhaustive. His thirst for information was unquenchable and his tolerance for fools was nonexistent.

Mr. Nixon’s prosecution of the war in Southeast Asia is poorly told by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick in their new Public Broadcasting Service documentary “The Vietnam War.” That is but one of many reasons Mr. Burns‘ latest work is such a disappointment and a tragic lost opportunity.

It’s sad, but I’ve come to accept that the real story of the heroic American GIs in Vietnam may never be told. Like too many others, Ken Burns portrays the young soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines of the Vietnam War as pot-smoking, drug-addicted, hippie marauders.

Those with whom I served were anything but. They did not commit the atrocities alleged in the unforgivable lies John Kerry described to a congressional committee so prominently featured by Mr. Burns. The troops my brother and I were blessed to lead were honorable, heroic and tenacious. They were patriotic, proud of their service, and true to their God and our country.

To depict them otherwise, as Mr. Burns does, is an egregious disservice to them, the families of the fallen and to history. But his treatment of my fellow Vietnam War veterans is just the start. Some of the most blatant travesties in the film are reserved for President Nixon.

Because of endless fairy tales told by Ken Burns and others, many Americans associate Richard Nixon with the totality and the worst events of Vietnam. It’s hardly evident in the Burns “documentary,” but important to note: When Richard Nixon was elected president in 1968, he inherited a nation — and a world — engulfed in discord and teetering on the brink of widespread chaos. His predecessor, Lyndon Johnson, was forced from office with a half-million U.S. troops mired in combat and fierce anti-American government demonstrations across the country and in our nation’s capital.

Ken Burns and Lynn Novick may not recall — but my family remembers: It was Lyndon Johnson who sent my brother and me to war. It was Richard Nixon who brought us home. It is very likely we are alive today because Mr. Nixon kept his word.

That’s not the only opportunity for accuracy Mr. Burns ignored. He could have credited Mr. Nixon with granting 18-year olds the right to vote in July 1971 with the 26th Amendment to our Constitution. (Does Ken even recall the slogan, “Old enough to fight — old enough to vote!” He should. Mr. Burns turned 18 that same month.)
President Nixon pressed on to all but finish the war. As promised, he brought our combat units home, returned 591 prisoners of war to their wives and families, ended the draft, leveraged the conflict to open ties with China and improved relations with the Soviet Union. He pushed both Communist giants in Beijing and Moscow to force their North Vietnamese puppet into a negotiated settlement. Yet he is portrayed in the Burns documentary as a cold-blooded, calculating politician more interested in re-election than the lives of U.S. troops in combat.

Contrary to the film’s portrayal, Mr. Nixon had a complicated strategy to achieve “peace with honor.” His goal was to train and equip the South Vietnamese military to defend their own country in a process he called “Vietnamization,” and thereby withdraw American troops.

President Nixon succeeded in isolating the North Vietnamese diplomatically and negotiated a peace agreement that preserved the right of the people of South Vietnam to determine their own political future. Imperfect as the Saigon government was, by 1973 the South Vietnamese had many well-trained troops and units that fought well and were proud to be our allies. This intricate and sophisticated approach took shape over four wartime years but receives only superficial mention in the Burns and Novick production.

Despite Democrat majorities in both houses of Congress, Mr. Nixon — a deft political powerhouse — attained consistent support from America’s “Silent Majority.”

If Mr. Burns read President Nixon’s memoir or his two successive books in which the former president recounts his emotional anguish at the war’s toll — “No More Vietnams” and “In the Arena” — there is little evidence in the PBS production. Instead, Mr. Burns cherry-picks from the infamous “Nixon tapes” to brand the president as a devious manipulator, striving for mass deception — a patently false allegation.

By the time President Nixon resigned office on Aug. 9, 1974, the Vietnam War was all but won and the South Vietnamese were confident of securing a permanent victory. But in December 1974 — three months after Mr. Nixon departed the White House — a vengeful, Democrat-dominated Congress cut off all aid to South Vietnam.

It was a devastating blow for those to whom Mr. Nixon had promised — not U.S. troops — but steadfast military, economic and diplomatic support. As chronicled in memoirs written afterwards in Hanoi, Moscow and Beijing, the communists celebrated. The ignominious end came with a full-scale North Vietnamese invasion five months later.

Despite the war’s end — and the trauma that continues to afflict our country — there is little in the Burns so-called documentary about the courage, patriotism and dedication of the U.S. troops who fought honorably, bravely and the despicable way in which we were “welcomed” home.

The PBS “documentary” frequently reminds viewers of the “gallant nationalist fervor” among the North Vietnamese. But the South Vietnamese are portrayed as little more than conniving urchins and weak pawns of the imperialist Americans.

In a technique favored by the “progressive left,” Mr. Burns uses a small cadre of anti-war U.S. and pro-Hanoi Vietnamese “eyewitnesses” to explain the complicated policies of the U.S. government. Mr. Burns apparently refused to interview Henry Kissinger, telling the Portland Press Herald he doubted “Kissinger’s authority to adequately convey the perspectives of the U.S. government.” This alone disqualifies this “documentary” as definitive history on the Vietnam War.

Though Mr. Burns and his collaborators claim otherwise, the real heroes of “The Vietnam War” were not U.S. protesters, but the troops my brother and I led. They fought valiantly for our country and the president who brought us home.
Since meeting President Nixon in the 1980s, I have always remembered how he understood the incredible sacrifice of American blood in the battlefields of Vietnam. He was dedicated to ending the war the right way and committed to sustaining American honor. He kept his promise to bring us home.
Ken Burns and Lynn Novick failed to keep their promise to tell all sides about the long and difficult war in Vietnam. Like John Kerry, they have committed a grave injustice to those of us who fought there.

• Oliver North was a Marine platoon leader in Vietnam, and recipient of the Silver Star, the Bronze Star for Valor, and two Purple Hearts.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
User avatar
orvet
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 19336
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 6:23 am
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by orvet »

While serving in Vietnam we had a little access to news other than the Big Three, ABC, NBC and CBS. That was about all the news there was in those days at least by broadcast media
Watching only those 3 News sources left me with kind of a bad taste in my mouth where President Nixon was concerned. I believe it was in the mid-to-late 1980s that I read Nixon's book No More Vietnams. Having lived through those years the events he described in his book were easily remembered and it gave me an entirely different view of President Nixon. I came away with from the book with a newfound respect for a man who got very little respect.

The liberal media likes to blame Nixon for the Vietnam War, he is kind of the Fall Guy president, betrayed as the the big buffoon who got America into Vietnam. The liberal side of the story doesn't tell the fact that Kennedy had a few advisors in there, even President Eisenhower had advisors in Vietnam I think there were five or six as I recall. But it was Lyndon Johnson that escalated the Vietnam War. It was Lyndon Johnson that got so many Americans killed there. It was Richard Nixon who negotiated an end to the war, as in perfect as it was.
Dale
AAPK Administrator

Please visit my AAPK store: www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet

Job 13:15

"Buy more ammo!" - Johnnie Fain
“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
User avatar
jerryd6818
Gold Tier
Gold Tier
Posts: 39165
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:23 am
Location: The middle of the top of a bastion of Liberalism.

Re: PBS and Ken Burns Viet Nam series

Post by jerryd6818 »

Korea
July 1950 - July 1953

US Deaths:
Hostile: 33,739
Non-Hostile: 2,835
Total In-Theatre: 36,574


Viet Nam
Casualty Category -- Number of Records
Active years 1956-1959 thru 1975
Inactive years 1987 - 2006 (7)

ACCIDENT
9,107

DECLARED DEAD
1,201

DIED OF WOUNDS
5,299

HOMICIDE
236

ILLNESS
938

KILLED IN ACTION
40,934

PRESUMED DEAD (BODY REMAINS RECOVERED)
32

PRESUMED DEAD (BODY REMAINS NOT RECOVERED)
91

SELF-INFLICTED
382

Total Records
58,220
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012
Post Reply

Return to “General Off Topic Discussion”