Is It Knives or Knifes?

[Mumbleypeg]

One of my pleasures in life is reading. And one of the things I enjoy most is a well written book, especially an older one from around the turn of the prior century or earlier which forces me to need a dictionary at hand to look up words. Words that were once commonplace but have fallen into disuse today. Usually I can tell their meaning, or at least approximate the meaning, from the context of the sentence. But I stop and look them up anyway just out of curiosity.

A couple of examples that are excellent reads include Owen Wister’s The Virginian, and Anthony Adverse by Hervey Allen. Not only are they great stories, they will challenge your vocabulary as well! Many of you have seen the movies made from those novels but as usual Hollywood didn’t do them justice, and even convoluted the story.

BTW, this is allaboutpocketknives, not allaboutpocketknifes! ‘Nuf said!

Ken

[tvic]

Why didn’t the English teacher propose to his girlfriend when she got out of prison. Because you’re not supposed to end a sentence with a proposition!

Ok, I’m sorry! I couldn’t resist! (By the way, I’m a former English teacher, too!)

[QTCut5]

Why didn’t the English teacher propose to his girlfriend when she got out of prison. Because you’re not supposed to end a sentence with a proposition!

Ok, I’m sorry! I couldn’t resist! (By the way, I’m a former English teacher, too!)

Good one.

[Madmarco]

Why didn’t the English teacher propose to his girlfriend when she got out of prison. Because you’re not supposed to end a sentence with a proposition!

Ok, I’m sorry! I couldn’t resist! (By the way, I’m a former English teacher, too!)

! Funny Tim, thanks for the chuckle!

[RobesonsRme.com]

Did any of you actually click the actionable link I posted?

Doesn’t seem so.

The gist of the article is that “knives” and “knifes” are now both considered be correct .

Actually, dropping the “f” and adding “ves” is apparently going away and has been doing so for some time.

[Mumbleypeg]

Charlie, I read it.

I also observe violence, theft and looting in the streets, mostly not prosecuted. And more mass shootings. Is there a correlation between overlooking and even accepting the little things in life, like accepting and even excusing improper grammar, escalating into un-prosecuted petty crimes, escalating into abortion on demand, random drive-by shootings, mass invasions/flaunting of undeterred immigration violations, invasion of countries (let them have it, it’s not worth fighting over), escalating into mass murders, escalating into ………….. Is it all related?

Just some observations.

Ken

[edge213]

I also read it, but knifes just sounds stupid.

[jmh58]

I also read it, but knifes just sounds stupid.

John

[QTCut5]

I read it. And I think the point of it (which is the same point I was trying to make with my long-winded diatribe) is simply that language is dynamic, not static; it changes constantly, English more than most. The rules that govern language use are primarily designed to standardize it to ensure clarity of meaning and common understanding in both written and spoken language for contemporary speakers, writers and readers. Language rules are not set in stone and eternally immutable. English has changed a lot over many years and continues to evolve today. The Elizabethan English spoken/written by William Shakespeare is vastly different from the modern English we speak & write nowadays. That's why the OED (Oxford English Dictionary) is a continual work in progress...it's never finished because as soon as the current edition is published, the editors immediately begin working on the next edition and have been doing so for decades. New words get added and old words that have fallen out of use get dropped.

To Ken's point: Language rules are nice in that they tend to keep everyone on the same page, so-to-speak. But breaking or even ignoring a grammar rule or (heaven forbid) misspelling a word or two every now and again isn't going to cause someone to commit bigger and worse "crimes" any more than moderately exceeding the posted speed limit will eventually turn someone into a dangerous road menace with no regard for anyone else's safety.

Often, when one of my students would challenge my corrections on a piece of writing (usually regarding sentence fragments or their evil twin, run-on sentences) with the argument that famous authors do it all the time, my response was always the same: Once you learn the rules and know how to write "correctly" then you'll know which rules are OK to break and still convey the intended meaning. Not all rules carry equal weight; some can be ignored, some cannot...even by famous authors. However, if you constantly disregard certain grammar rules (including commonly accepted spelling), sooner or later you will discover that your intended meaning may not be properly understood, and, worse, many people will judge you (silently or otherwise) as being uneducated or just plain stupid...at least until you become a famous author yourself!

I can overlook some misspelled or misused words as long as I can still understand the writer's meaning. But please don't get me started on incorrect use of punctuation!

[ken98k]

Charlie, I read it.

I also observe violence, theft and looting in the streets, mostly not prosecuted. And more mass shootings. Is there a correlation between overlooking and even accepting the little things in life, like accepting and even excusing improper grammar, escalating into un-prosecuted petty crimes, escalating into abortion on demand, random drive-by shootings, mass invasions/flaunting of undeterred immigration violations, invasion of countries (let them have it, it’s not worth fighting over), escalating into mass murders, escalating into ………….. Is it all related?

Just some observations.

Ken

You are correct!

[ken98k]

Did any of you actually click the actionable link I posted?

Doesn’t seem so.

The gist of the article is that “knives” and “knifes” are not both considered be correct .

Actually, dropping the “f” and adding “ves” is apparently going away and has been doing so for some time.

It's a little disturbing that the rules are changing because people don't know how to speak english.

"The rule on “roofs” has changed so completely in the U.S. that Merriam-Webster no longer even has an entry for “rooves.” Although the standard rule for most words ending in “f” still holds, in casual speech and writing words like “calfs,” “elfs” and “loafs” are appearing more and more. What that means, in all likelihood, is that more will follow and the old rule will change, so that words ending in “f” just take an “s” for pluralization, like most words ending in a consonant."

[Maddogfl]

Knifes is what you do to someone in a bar. Past tense: knifed. Plural of knife is knives, but knifes should work just as well, as whoever reads it knows what the other person is speaking of.

It was not long ago, from a historical perspective, that spelling was not codified and multiple spellings of a word were common. This even extends to family names. My own surname is spelled at least a dozen ways; all descended from the same person. Webster came along and screwed up a perfectly good system, causing people like me, a really bad speller, a lot of undeserved grief and misery, because there is always someone who digs around for catching spelling errors to show their superior intellect.

I have read thousands of books over my lifetime, and it seems to me, that based solely upon that fact, I should be a near perfect speller, but it just doesn't work that way.

[Quick Steel]

My 2 cents. I think it is still important for schools to teach grammar, punctuation, spelling, and so forth. A moderately well educated person should be able to communicate ideas in clear, concise, sentences. In many professions and occupations, this ability will be critical and may have a great impact on one's career.

I believe that in Informal writing such as posts in the AAPK, letters to friends, or composing fiction, grammatical rules may be ignored so long as in doing so clarity is not lost.

[Ridgegrass]

My opinion: Read anything written by Abraham Lincoln or Robert E. Lee or their contemporaries. The "American" language of the mid-nineteenth century is really a pleasure to read. Sure, things change, but not always for the better.

I also taught for forty one years and, sadly, the system seemed to just give up on writing skills. I taught Biology and Sciences and when I'd correct their language or writing they'd say, " This isn't English class." I've even been told by superiors to "ease up" and concentrate on the science and not the grammar.

With texting and it's own "rules" of grammar, people can hardly speak in full sentences anymore, let alone write. Oh well, they seem to be able to communicate with one another, "I mean, ya' know........know'm sayin', Dude?
Just chill, y'all. J.O'.

[eveled]

Sometimes it is about consistently. Two things can both be correct, but once you go down a path you need to stay on that path.

If writing about motorcycles. Petrol tank, tyres, spanner. Or its gas tank, tires, wrench. You can’t mix them.

There are also different sets of grammar styles each have their own rules. Again choose a set and stick with it. The 4 main ones are. AP style, Chicago style, MLA & APA

Personally, I don’t judge others by their grammar or speech. I try to hold myself to the highest standard I can. So others don’t judge me negatively.

[KLJ77]

Typoglycemia:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

[Railsplitter]

Typoglycemia:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Wow! That actually worked! I had no problems making sense of that. Got through it without even stumbling. Very interesting.

[winst]

When I see “knifes” I assume the writer doesn’t know any better and/or their spell checker is disabled.

In todays text-centric world the norms of proper grammar and punctuation seem to be disappearing. The inane omnipresence of Twitter (force-fitting the message into a character limited format) is not helping either. Nor is the “dumbing down” of education expectations. JMO

Ken

I agree 100% with Ken as to his limited examples of the "problem with schools". I know, without a doubt he is rumbling like a volcano to write a thesis on this topic. By-the- way I used the word knifers just last week in reference to knife collectors. I prayed about it and promised not to do it again.

[Steve Warden]

Typoglycemia:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Wow! That actually worked! I had no problems making sense of that. Got through it without even stumbling. Very interesting.

I was quite surprised. I had no problems, either.

[Madmarco]

Typoglycemia:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

I totally agree with Rick and Steve, wow! That works incredibly well Ken, I breezed right through your whole paragraph and understood every word. Teriffic shortcut if you ever get a chance to use it! Thx for the chuckle!

[winst]

Charlie, I read it.

I also observe violence, theft and looting in the streets, mostly not prosecuted. And more mass shootings. Is there a correlation between overlooking and even accepting the little things in life, like accepting and even excusing improper grammar, escalating into un-prosecuted petty crimes, escalating into abortion on demand, random drive-by shootings, mass invasions/flaunting of undeterred immigration violations, invasion of countries (let them have it, it’s not worth fighting over), escalating into mass murders, escalating into ………….. Is it all related?

Just some observations.

Ken

Amen Ken It's not about the person that can see the best but rather the one who can see the farthest.

[KLJ77]

I saw that word play years ago and thought it was appropriate for this thread. Just goes to show that; The mind can be awesome or a terrible thing.

[Samb]

I call them knives, anyone else can call them knifes, I don't care I know what they're talking about.

[Maddogfl]

Typoglycemia:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

That is correct. I play an online word scramble game called Text Twist II, where you unscramble a word. Many times, it only takes a glance to get the right answer, and that is especially true if the first letter is in the correct position.

[Maddogfl]

I call them knives, anyone else can call them knifes, I don't care I know what they're talking about.

I agree, but wherever you go there will be a spelling Nazi who will come at you with both barrels for typing "The" as "Teh"; something that is easy to do if you are an imperfect touch typist. I post on a different kind of forum, where posters consider themselves somewhat high-brows. I love hitting them, from time to time, with my Southern colloquial language. I especially like to place, in its proper position the word "ain't" something that would have drove my tenth grade Yankee English teacher up a wall.