BONES BONES BONES

Waukonda · Post by **Waukonda** » Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:05 pm

Ivoryman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:47 pm Couple Schrade Cut Co sets of bones.

Very nice!!

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:07 pm

Lyle, I've been studying your post on the scales on these knives. IMHO it just looks "natural" as opposed to something jigged with a tool. I can't understand the mechanical process that would lead to that result. I'm leaning toward some special kind of stag. I've looked at KA-BAR stag and the material in the pic below and they are similar in having blood capillaries like bone but that Sheffield material is still a mystery. Guess there's not likely to be anyone around to supply the real answers . J.O'.

Here's a close up. Don't look like tool marks that I can say. ???

313 Mike · Post by **313 Mike** » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:18 pm

Ivoryman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:47 pm Couple Schrade Cut Co sets of bones.

Oh my goodness Ivory, those are outstanding. Love that old Schrade bone, some of my favorite!

Thomasg · Post by **Thomasg** » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:39 pm

1/2 dozen Remington

Thomasg · Post by **Thomasg** » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:47 pm

Natural bone with scrimshaw

Thomasg · Post by **Thomasg** » Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:10 pm

: Case xx grey bone (alligator skin )

: Case xx grey bone (alligator skin)

: Case xx Chestnut bone (Celtic maze.-Celtic ruins )

: Case xx chestnut bone (Celtic maze -Celtic ruins )

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:33 am

Thanks guys. Schrade bone is hard to beat.

I am very interested in getting a piece of that handle material analyzed JO. What I don't understand is why you don't see it on US knives. Seems like it doesn't hold color very well either, like early jigged bone.

The frame on that Simmons Hardware looks like the early H Boker I have, but the profile of the pruning blade isn't like Boker. ??s

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:58 am

My Wosty resembles old Case "green bone" in places. Short of animal tissue DNA analysis I do't know how to differentiate cattle shin bone from antler. Maybe some college would take it on. Might be expensive for a hobbyist. J.O'.

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:46 pm

Ridgegrass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:58 am My Wosty resembles old Case "green bone" in places. Short of animal tissue DNA analysis I do't know how to differentiate cattle shin bone from antler. Maybe some college would take it on. Might be expensive for a hobbyist. J.O'.

My nephew was in pharmacy school at the time I was seriously looking for an analysis, I thought he might have access. A friend volunteered to try and get it analyzed, so I sent him the German Western as a sample, but that never worked out. Now I'm looking for it back or another inexpensive knife with these handles ( broken handles that removing a piece for analysis won't hurt.)

edge213 · Post by **edge213** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:23 pm

wlf wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:46 pm
Ridgegrass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:58 am My Wosty resembles old Case "green bone" in places. Short of animal tissue DNA analysis I do't know how to differentiate cattle shin bone from antler. Maybe some college would take it on. Might be expensive for a hobbyist. J.O'.
My nephew was in pharmacy school at the time I was seriously looking for an analysis, I thought he might have access. A friend volunteered to try and get it analyzed, so I sent him the German Western as a sample, but that never worked out. Now I'm looking for it back or another inexpensive knife with these handles ( broken handles that removing a piece for analysis won't hurt.)

Anxiously awaiting the answer to this.

Ivoryman · Post by **Ivoryman** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:37 pm

Thomasg wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:10 pm image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

Nice group of bones. Love the Remington 1/2 dozen, all of those are lookers. And the Alligator skin is sweet. Have not seen that around yet. Great looking group of bones. Celtic Maze is interesting too. Nice show and keep 'em coming. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Ivoryman · Post by **Ivoryman** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:39 pm

313 Mike wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:18 pm
Ivoryman wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:47 pm Couple Schrade Cut Co sets of bones.
Oh my goodness Ivory, those are outstanding. Love that old Schrade bone, some of my favorite!

Thanks Mike, glad you like them, those babies are still in great shape for being that old too. Great knives to be lasting that long. Thanks again my friend and have a great start to the week.

Thomasg · Post by **Thomasg** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:45 pm

wlf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:09 pm
Ridgegrass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:49 pm Sheffield bone can be really nice. Here's a "Wosty" cattle knife with what I call pebbled bone, almost like it's the reverse of normal, notched jigging. Just a beauty. Not seen on a lot of American brands. J.O'.
Many call this snakeskin stag, pebble stag, and you call it pebble bone. I and many others have always referred to it as pressed stag, although the actual material has never been authenticated. Many,I think, believe it is natural occurring stag.

This handle material has been an ongoing research of mine for several years. No one I've ever asked ,author or expert collector, has ever seen an American made knife with this handle material.There are a couple examples of companies' early knives with this material I know of, but because of the abundant examples of( English and German) or total lack thereof(American), I believe these are also imports. I have a Simmons Hornet that most agree are imports from Germany, although this one looks more English.

The Simmons Hornet:

Simmons Hardware514.jpg

Simmons Hornet on left and Wostenholm on right:

Simmons Hardware518.jpg

German Henckels - English Wostenholm - German Western

Pressed stag comp300.jpg

I really like the texture and look of them bones .the hunt is on till I score one .lol thank you for sharing .

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:40 pm

Here's a HILGER (Germany) with the mystery "Bone/Stag". Very densely capillaried.
The plot thickens.

J.O'.

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:17 pm

I'm noticing there are no smoothly finished tapers near the bolsters even though the scales thin down near the ends so the material must be fitted before whatever process is used to give it the texture. Or, is the material already textured in it's natural state ?? (Hope that makes sense; I'm composing while I'm thinking. ) You may see what I mean in the pics below. As the covers thin at the ends there's no change in the vertical relief of the jigging. Hard to imagine how that could happen in a hand or machine process. It's the same on the Woistenholme.

????

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:26 pm

If I understand your question J O, it's still a puzzle for me.If a die was used to form , it would have been previous to installation, as with coloration on stag.

Counterpoint is why wasn't it marketed in the US? We know stag used for knife handles has always been imported( Sambar deer antlers). This is a beautiful handle material and I assume material providers would've been very eager to sell it to Americans. We were a ready and booming market.

On another note,as with the usage of steel pins is an affirmation of German knife manufacturer, so is the practice of dubbing off of the handle material at the bolsters. You hardly ever see an American and I've never seen a Sheffield knife hafted in such a manner. The Simmons knife is dubbed off at the small bolster, although not as prominently as many I've seen, another clue to it's manufacturer.

The 2nd picture is the Wostenholm and 3rd is the Simmons.I assume I'm understanding your point J O ? The reason for the hafting the German's did below on the Simmons.

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:14 pm

Not sure how a die is used to press a pattern into bone tissue? Is it chemically softened prior to pressing? I know bone can be made pliable but I wasn't aware that knife makers employed those processes. I'd like to read up on it. J.O'.

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:43 pm

Ridgegrass wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:14 pm Not sure how a die is used to press a pattern into bone tissue? Is it chemically softened prior to pressing? I know bone can be made pliable but I wasn't aware that knife makers employed those processes. I'd like to read up on it. J.O'.

It very well may be naturally occurring and many , whom I highly respect, besides you believe it is. Most German and English differ slightly in appearance, with the German being more linear (with more solid segments ) and the English more " pebbly ". I would like to get a satisfactory understanding.

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:18 pm

Well it's fun and interesting discussing it and I'll let you know if any info comes along.

J.O'.

Clark23 · Post by **Clark23** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:36 pm

I use to have a few bones but currently have just the one here, I am getting another knife with bone soon, I’d post it soon as I get! Some great looking stuff here.

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:04 pm

That's a beauty. Valley Forge? J.O'.

Clark23 · Post by **Clark23** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:09 pm

Ridgegrass wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:04 pm That's a beauty. Valley Forge? J.O'.

No sir it is a Nagle Reblade

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:46 pm

Nice!
Found another "Bone/Stag" mystery. An old VOM CLEFF, N.Y. (Germany) 4 blade, equal end pen, worn smooth a little. J.O'.

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:22 pm

Ridgegrass wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:46 pm Nice!
Found another "Bone/Stag" mystery. An old VOM CLEFF, N.Y. (Germany) 4 blade, equal end pen, worn smooth a little. J.O'.

I knew this was German by the look of the sections throughout the handles. This is a reason to question them being natural. Start noticing the difference in the textures of English vs German , they're pretty consistent but different.

Yes it's very interesting to me. Thanks for the contributions and input. Mark Zalesky has got an informational feeler out to a European authority , whether he can help us out or not is not known.

J O isn't that smaller knife in the 2nd pic in the OP a worn German example of this discussion?

I've always enjoyed discussing the different jigging and handles, we have an older thread somewhere just like this one.

Ridgegrass · Post by **Ridgegrass** » Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:19 pm

Lyle, That is a PENNSYLVANIA KNIFE CO. 4 blade congress. c.1914. Now, the question becomes "Is it US or German?" According to Levine there was a Penn, Knife Co. made in USA? and a Penn. Cutlery Co. made in Germany?,(His "?") . Not much to go on other than it has no country of origin stamp which in 1914 would have been required on an import. The pins are nickel silver which may have meaning. The scale material looks to be the same "Bone/stag" we're talking about. Another layer to the question. J.O'.

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