Great job Marc. It's always great when you can save or recondition a knife. Gotta love those Doctors Knives.Madmarco wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:15 pm This little Dr.'s knife was an inexpensive model being offered by Steel Warrior! When it arrived there were visible cracks on both sides of the honey colored ox horn covers, and the seller issued a full refund without me needing to return the knife. I put it on the display and was just going to leave it as-is, but, Elvis my cat knocked over the plexiglass stand it was on and the cracked covers disintegrated as it hit the ground. This happened around the time I was attempting to re-build a knife that came to me in rather poor shape, and I had some scraps of composite material left over that I had used to build new covers for the knife, so I used the broken pieces as a crude guide and shaped new covers for the Dr.'s knife. I really cheated on the replacements because the pins had stayed exactly where they were suppose to be, so I drilled holes and popped the new covers on and they fit nearly perfectly, albeit somewhat loose, so I dropped a drop of Super Glue over the pin and let it drip down the pin, and when it hardened the new covers were, and still are securely in place. I was so short of material that I had to use 2 different colors, black and white for the front, and purple and black for the back. I never was able to re-build the other knife, but being able to bring this one back to life certainly instilled a feeling of accomplishment on my part! Just a simple 6 3/4" oal slip-joint/440 SS drop-point blade with n/n, SS bolsters, brass liners and pins, and composite covers. Weighs about 1.5 oz.'s, and came factory sharp. Smooth walk and snappy talk on this one. One-of-two Dr.'s knives I own! 8)WIN_20210223_14_12_01_Pro.jpgWIN_20210223_14_12_23_Pro.jpg
Comfort Knives!
- Papa Bones
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Re: Comfort Knives!
Sometimes I Sit and Think .... Other times I just Sit
I May Grow Older, But I refuse to Grow Up!!
I'll sharpen it for you, but I don't give out band-aids!!
Smitty
I May Grow Older, But I refuse to Grow Up!!
I'll sharpen it for you, but I don't give out band-aids!!
Smitty
- Papa Bones
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- Location: Alabama, Roll Tide Country
Re: Comfort Knives!
Camillus ......check! 72......Check! Short Line tang stamp.......Check! Bone Handles.......Check!! Yep....it checks all the boxes. What's not to love. Awesome knife JP.Ripster wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:06 pm
Thought would post my all time favorite and most comforting piece. This is one that started me down the Camillus and 72s and there clones . Got it out and playing with it a bit ,just think it’s the most comfortable thing to EDC .
That’s about it here , keep on posting and catch you later
Sometimes I Sit and Think .... Other times I just Sit
I May Grow Older, But I refuse to Grow Up!!
I'll sharpen it for you, but I don't give out band-aids!!
Smitty
I May Grow Older, But I refuse to Grow Up!!
I'll sharpen it for you, but I don't give out band-aids!!
Smitty
- Madmarco
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Re: Comfort Knives!
By all means Willy, steal away! I really just got lucky because ordinarily the pins should have fallen out as well when the ox horn broke apart, but the one's on that knife stayed firmly in place, and once I had the new covers shaped it was a simple matter of drilling the holes in line with the pins and then dropping the new cover over them. Probably wouldn't happen that way again in a million years, but if it does you'll know exactly what to do!WillyCamaro wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:32 pmThat tis a mighty excellent tip for re-scaling a knife Mark, I have to steal it from you, will come in handy on rebuilds.Madmarco wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:15 pm This little Dr.'s knife was an inexpensive model being offered by Steel Warrior! When it arrived there were visible cracks on both sides of the honey colored ox horn covers, and the seller issued a full refund without me needing to return the knife. I put it on the display and was just going to leave it as-is, but, Elvis my cat knocked over the plexiglass stand it was on and the cracked covers disintegrated as it hit the ground. This happened around the time I was attempting to re-build a knife that came to me in rather poor shape, and I had some scraps of composite material left over that I had used to build new covers for the knife, so I used the broken pieces as a crude guide and shaped new covers for the Dr.'s knife. I really cheated on the replacements because the pins had stayed exactly where they were suppose to be, so I drilled holes and popped the new covers on and they fit nearly perfectly, albeit somewhat loose, so I dropped a drop of Super Glue over the pin and let it drip down the pin, and when it hardened the new covers were, and still are securely in place. I was so short of material that I had to use 2 different colors, black and white for the front, and purple and black for the back. I never was able to re-build the other knife, but being able to bring this one back to life certainly instilled a feeling of accomplishment on my part! Just a simple 6 3/4" oal slip-joint/440 SS drop-point blade with n/n, SS bolsters, brass liners and pins, and composite covers. Weighs about 1.5 oz.'s, and came factory sharp. Smooth walk and snappy talk on this one. One-of-two Dr.'s knives I own! 8)WIN_20210223_14_12_01_Pro.jpgWIN_20210223_14_12_23_Pro.jpg
- WillyCamaro
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Re: Comfort Knives!
Madmarco wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:48 amBy all means Willy, steal away! I really just got lucky because ordinarily the pins should have fallen out as well when the ox horn broke apart, but the one's on that knife stayed firmly in place, and once I had the new covers shaped it was a simple matter of drilling the holes in line with the pins and then dropping the new cover over them. Probably wouldn't happen that way again in a million years, but if it does you'll know exactly what to do!WillyCamaro wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:32 pmThat tis a mighty excellent tip for re-scaling a knife Mark, I have to steal it from you, will come in handy on rebuilds.Madmarco wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:15 pm This little Dr.'s knife was an inexpensive model being offered by Steel Warrior! When it arrived there were visible cracks on both sides of the honey colored ox horn covers, and the seller issued a full refund without me needing to return the knife. I put it on the display and was just going to leave it as-is, but, Elvis my cat knocked over the plexiglass stand it was on and the cracked covers disintegrated as it hit the ground. This happened around the time I was attempting to re-build a knife that came to me in rather poor shape, and I had some scraps of composite material left over that I had used to build new covers for the knife, so I used the broken pieces as a crude guide and shaped new covers for the Dr.'s knife. I really cheated on the replacements because the pins had stayed exactly where they were suppose to be, so I drilled holes and popped the new covers on and they fit nearly perfectly, albeit somewhat loose, so I dropped a drop of Super Glue over the pin and let it drip down the pin, and when it hardened the new covers were, and still are securely in place. I was so short of material that I had to use 2 different colors, black and white for the front, and purple and black for the back. I never was able to re-build the other knife, but being able to bring this one back to life certainly instilled a feeling of accomplishment on my part! Just a simple 6 3/4" oal slip-joint/440 SS drop-point blade with n/n, SS bolsters, brass liners and pins, and composite covers. Weighs about 1.5 oz.'s, and came factory sharp. Smooth walk and snappy talk on this one. One-of-two Dr.'s knives I own! 8)WIN_20210223_14_12_01_Pro.jpgWIN_20210223_14_12_23_Pro.jpg
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- Madmarco
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- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
Thanks for your encouraging words Smitty! It sure does feel good to be able to do minor repairs successfully on my knives, since I really don't know the first thing about knife-making. Even a broken clock is right twice a day though. Maybe one day I'll have the required skills to perform re-builds, just like you with the Camillus 72 you rescued, just a beautiful job! And yessir, I sure do love those Dr.'s Knives!Papa Bones wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:24 amGreat job Marc. It's always great when you can save or recondition a knife. Gotta love those Doctors Knives.Madmarco wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:15 pm This little Dr.'s knife was an inexpensive model being offered by Steel Warrior! When it arrived there were visible cracks on both sides of the honey colored ox horn covers, and the seller issued a full refund without me needing to return the knife. I put it on the display and was just going to leave it as-is, but, Elvis my cat knocked over the plexiglass stand it was on and the cracked covers disintegrated as it hit the ground. This happened around the time I was attempting to re-build a knife that came to me in rather poor shape, and I had some scraps of composite material left over that I had used to build new covers for the knife, so I used the broken pieces as a crude guide and shaped new covers for the Dr.'s knife. I really cheated on the replacements because the pins had stayed exactly where they were suppose to be, so I drilled holes and popped the new covers on and they fit nearly perfectly, albeit somewhat loose, so I dropped a drop of Super Glue over the pin and let it drip down the pin, and when it hardened the new covers were, and still are securely in place. I was so short of material that I had to use 2 different colors, black and white for the front, and purple and black for the back. I never was able to re-build the other knife, but being able to bring this one back to life certainly instilled a feeling of accomplishment on my part! Just a simple 6 3/4" oal slip-joint/440 SS drop-point blade with n/n, SS bolsters, brass liners and pins, and composite covers. Weighs about 1.5 oz.'s, and came factory sharp. Smooth walk and snappy talk on this one. One-of-two Dr.'s knives I own! 8)WIN_20210223_14_12_01_Pro.jpgWIN_20210223_14_12_23_Pro.jpg
- Madmarco
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Re: Comfort Knives!
I've had this little dagger/boot knife/athame with me today, and it's actually the first fixed blade I've used as a comfort knife, albeit, not the last! To my way of thinking this is a boot dagger, although, these are used in magic and witchcraft rituals and are referred to as athames. Mine is 9 1/2" oal/SS full-tang dual-edged dagger blade, SS bolsters pommel and pins, and black/white pakkawood covers. Weighing-in at 6 oz.'s, and both edges came sharpened. Has a teeny-weeny "Pakistan" rear blade etch. I had this knife's little brother at 7 1/2" oal prior to ordering this model, and since I like to collect sets I got this one too! Beautiful fit n' finish for a very inexpensive fixer!
- WillyCamaro
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Re: Comfort Knives!
Hmm, this un tis most interesting mate. Looks quite a bit like the vintage Parker/Frost boot dagger, same lines, same design.Madmarco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:18 am I've had this little dagger/boot knife/athame with me today, and it's actually the first fixed blade I've used as a comfort knife, albeit, not the last! To my way of thinking this is a boot dagger, although, these are used in magic and witchcraft rituals and are referred to as athames. Mine is 9 1/2" oal/SS full-tang dual-edged dagger blade, SS bolsters pommel and pins, and black/white pakkawood covers. Weighing-in at 6 oz.'s, and both edges came sharpened. Has a teeny-weeny "Pakistan" rear blade etch. I had this knife's little brother at 7 1/2" oal prior to ordering this model, and since I like to collect sets I got this one too! Beautiful fit n' finish for a very inexpensive fixer! 8)WIN_20210224_15_57_20_Pro.jpg
Those were just made in Japan, of course.
Great knife Marko', lot's of comfort on offer.
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- Madmarco
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- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
Thanks Willy! I got the smaller model from Amazon, and then months later saw this model at Herooutdoors so I scooped it up! There's not a sharp edge on it other than the blade, and just feels great in-hand!WillyCamaro wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:23 amHmm, this un tis most interesting mate. Looks quite a bit like the vintage Parker/Frost boot dagger, same lines, same design.Madmarco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:18 am I've had this little dagger/boot knife/athame with me today, and it's actually the first fixed blade I've used as a comfort knife, albeit, not the last! To my way of thinking this is a boot dagger, although, these are used in magic and witchcraft rituals and are referred to as athames. Mine is 9 1/2" oal/SS full-tang dual-edged dagger blade, SS bolsters pommel and pins, and black/white pakkawood covers. Weighing-in at 6 oz.'s, and both edges came sharpened. Has a teeny-weeny "Pakistan" rear blade etch. I had this knife's little brother at 7 1/2" oal prior to ordering this model, and since I like to collect sets I got this one too! Beautiful fit n' finish for a very inexpensive fixer! 8)WIN_20210224_15_57_20_Pro.jpg
Those were just made in Japan, of course.
Great knife Marko', lot's of comfort on offer.
- WillyCamaro
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Re: Comfort Knives!
That sounds most fine Markie. I do love me a boot knife, or two.Madmarco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:55 amThanks Willy! I got the smaller model from Amazon, and then months later saw this model at Herooutdoors so I scooped it up! There's not a sharp edge on it other than the blade, and just feels great in-hand!WillyCamaro wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:23 amHmm, this un tis most interesting mate. Looks quite a bit like the vintage Parker/Frost boot dagger, same lines, same design.Madmarco wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:18 am I've had this little dagger/boot knife/athame with me today, and it's actually the first fixed blade I've used as a comfort knife, albeit, not the last! To my way of thinking this is a boot dagger, although, these are used in magic and witchcraft rituals and are referred to as athames. Mine is 9 1/2" oal/SS full-tang dual-edged dagger blade, SS bolsters pommel and pins, and black/white pakkawood covers. Weighing-in at 6 oz.'s, and both edges came sharpened. Has a teeny-weeny "Pakistan" rear blade etch. I had this knife's little brother at 7 1/2" oal prior to ordering this model, and since I like to collect sets I got this one too! Beautiful fit n' finish for a very inexpensive fixer! 8)WIN_20210224_15_57_20_Pro.jpg
Those were just made in Japan, of course.
Great knife Marko', lot's of comfort on offer.
When I make a few, I'll set aside one for my buddy, he can be my production tester.
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- Madmarco
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- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
Sounds good Willy! I haven't heard "Markie" since I was 5 years old, I had to stop for a sec to realize who you were referring to! LOL!
- WillyCamaro
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Re: Comfort Knives!
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- Madmarco
- Gold Tier
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- Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 12:09 am
- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
Here's a knife I received awhile ago, but since it doesn't have the color of covers I prefer, it has seen much attention. I already owned the fixed blade model, which came with dark chocolate micarta covers, the one's I prefer, but I couldn't find today's knife in d/c micarta so I settled on these brown wood one's, a mistake I won't be making again anytime soon, because if the knife isn't exactly what you want it usually doesn't see much time out of it's display, exactly like this one. The knife in question is a United Cutlery 527 Will & Finck S.F. CAL "Horsehead" lockback folding bowie that is 9 3/8" oal/SS clip-point blade with slight swedge on 50% of the spine and a n/n, NS ornate bolsters, brass liners and pins, and black/brown ringed pakkawood covers. Has an approximate weight of 8 oz.'s, and came very sharp. Built in Japan. I like the knife, so I'm trying to figure out if I can somehow dye the covers the same color as it's counterpart, which is the same builders 11 1/4" oal fixed blade model, of which I've included a picture for comparison purposes.
- Madmarco
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Re: Comfort Knives!
Bringing me much comfort on this cold and windy day we have this knife which is the fixed blade model from a set of 2 knives called "Gambler's Set", the other being a folder that I'll post another day, and both are Frost Cutlery offerings! This one is 7" oal/surgical SS full-tang drop-point blade with jimping on the top-center, brass pins securing stag slabs to the handle, and lanyard hole. Weighs but 2 oz.'s, and arrived sharp, albeit not sharpened. This model is marked with F/C logo and wording, and was built in Japan. There is also a blade etch of a banner with "THE ACE" inside, and a stamp of "226" on the ricasso denoting the set number, whereas the folder has "THE DUECE" and the same number. Similar to a bird and trout knife, this is a very handy little knife for around the house chores, or in this case to provide comfort!
- WillyCamaro
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Re: Comfort Knives!
Now that's what I'm talking bout Markie!Madmarco wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:35 pm Bringing me much comfort on this cold and windy day we have this knife which is the fixed blade model from a set of 2 knives called "Gambler's Set", the other being a folder that I'll post another day, and both are Frost Cutlery offerings! This one is 7" oal/surgical SS full-tang drop-point blade with jimping on the top-center, brass pins securing stag slabs to the handle, and lanyard hole. Weighs but 2 oz.'s, and arrived sharp, albeit not sharpened. This model is marked with F/C logo and wording, and was built in Japan. There is also a blade etch of a banner with "THE ACE" inside, and a stamp of "226" on the ricasso denoting the set number, whereas the folder has "THE DUECE" and the same number. Similar to a bird and trout knife, this is a very handy little knife for around the house chores, or in this case to provide comfort! 8)WIN_20210226_13_44_06_Pro.jpg
She's a good looking cf, my kind of desk knife...
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- Madmarco
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 9877
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 12:09 am
- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
Willy! Ya gotta stop with the "Markie", the next thing ya know it'll have caught-on and everyone will be calling me that! LOL! Sorry my pic is so dark, don't know what I did wrong.
- Madmarco
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Re: Comfort Knives!
Since I posted "The Ace" yesterday, it only seemed fitting that I post "The Deuce" today, so that's what's up! This is the other half of a set of 2 called "The Gambler", and this one is the folder. It's by Frost Cutlery, and is a 6 3/4" oal slip-joint mid-lockback/surgical SS drop-point blade with n/n, NS bolsters and pins, brass liners, perfectly matched stag covers, and lanyard hole. A bit heavier than it's fixed blade counterpart at 2.7 oz.'s, and came shaving-sharp. Built in Japan. This model also has a banner etch on the front blade with "THE DEUCE" inside, along with the F/C logo and wording for the front tang stamp, and "226" stamped on the front bolster denoting the set number. Very cool little folder! My pic yesterday was too dark, and now today it's too light, sorry guys.
- WillyCamaro
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Re: Comfort Knives!
Another winner in my book Mark, pairs perfectly with yesterdays comfort knife.Madmarco wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:00 pm Since I posted "The Ace" yesterday, it only seemed fitting that I post "The Deuce" today, so that's what's up! This is the other half of a set of 2 called "The Gambler", and this one is the folder. It's by Frost Cutlery, and is a 6 3/4" oal slip-joint mid-lockback/surgical SS drop-point blade with n/n, NS bolsters and pins, brass liners, perfectly matched stag covers, and lanyard hole. A bit heavier than it's fixed blade counterpart at 2.7 oz.'s, and came shaving-sharp. This model also has a banner etch on the front blade with "THE DEUCE" inside, along with the F/C logo and wording for the front tang stamp, and "226" stamped on the front bolster denoting the set number. Very cool little folder! My pic yesterday was too dark, and now today it's too light, sorry guys. WIN_20210227_13_43_29_Pro.jpg
"Never, never, never give up."
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
Winston Churchill
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Matthew 6:34
- Madmarco
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 9877
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 12:09 am
- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
Thanks Willy!
Re: Comfort Knives!
Mark like your 2 last posts ! The Ace and The Duece , great name fit for the Gambler set . They have nice clean lines and can see why you like emMadmarco wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:00 pm Since I posted "The Ace" yesterday, it only seemed fitting that I post "The Deuce" today, so that's what's up! This is the other half of a set of 2 called "The Gambler", and this one is the folder. It's by Frost Cutlery, and is a 6 3/4" oal slip-joint mid-lockback/surgical SS drop-point blade with n/n, NS bolsters and pins, brass liners, perfectly matched stag covers, and lanyard hole. A bit heavier than it's fixed blade counterpart at 2.7 oz.'s, and came shaving-sharp. Built in Japan. This model also has a banner etch on the front blade with "THE DEUCE" inside, along with the F/C logo and wording for the front tang stamp, and "226" stamped on the front bolster denoting the set number. Very cool little folder! My pic yesterday was too dark, and now today it's too light, sorry guys. WIN_20210227_13_43_29_Pro.jpg
Take care up there and think Spring!!!
JP
- Papa Bones
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- Location: Alabama, Roll Tide Country
Re: Comfort Knives!
Very nice Marc. Some nice looking scales. Cool set overall!!
Sometimes I Sit and Think .... Other times I just Sit
I May Grow Older, But I refuse to Grow Up!!
I'll sharpen it for you, but I don't give out band-aids!!
Smitty
I May Grow Older, But I refuse to Grow Up!!
I'll sharpen it for you, but I don't give out band-aids!!
Smitty
- Madmarco
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 9877
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 12:09 am
- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
Thanks a bunch J.P. and Smitty, I appreciate your replies, and that you appreciate the knives!
- Madmarco
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- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
I haven't played with this knife in quite some time, so it was the logical choice for providing comfort today! It's an unmarked auto that I acquired from France, and is 9 1/4" oal/SS drop-point blade with fullers on both sides, 2-piece SS through construction body held together with screws, SS liners, adjustable pivot, spine located flush-mounted safety, and pocket-clip. With all the SS on this knife it bears a weigh of about 8 oz.'s, and arrived surprisingly sharp. It's embellished with a raised Galil rifle bullets and encircled star on both sides of the body. Snaps to attention with authority, and locks-up tight and solid every time with zero blade play. For a very inexpensive knife I'm actually surprised at the quality this one displays. The 4th and likely last knife I've ordered from this seller, due to the fact I have enough cheap "click therapy" autos in my collection, but they sure are fun to play with!
- Madmarco
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- Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 12:09 am
- Location: Smack dab in the middle of Canada
Re: Comfort Knives!
My knife for today is an inexpensive lockback folder by Columbia that I ordered from an Asian site just because I liked it's design! This one is 8 3/4" oal/SS drop-point blade minus a n/n cuz it's wide enough to pinch open, SS modified Maltese bolsters with faux MOP inserts in the bottom one's, SS liners, brass pins and inlays, black ABS covers, and extended lanyard hole. Weighs about 6 oz.'s, and only factory sharpened. Bears Columbia logo and wording etches, and model number front tang stamp. Certainly could be used, although, for me it's just a showpiece!
Re: Comfort Knives!
Mark , those are both ones never seen, that one with the AR looks like a solid piece. And your ornamental looking one looks rather comforting.
Take care up there
Take care up there
JP
- Madmarco
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Re: Comfort Knives!
Thanks J.P.! The AR auto is a surprisingly solid knife for being so inexpensive, and the other is strictly for fun and comfort, and also was inexpensive, just how I like em'! Thx again!