Loveless Knives

[kootenay joe]

Knives made by Bob Loveless sell from about $6,000 to about $25,000. There is a "Loveless Knives" shop in Riverside California with a website. https://www.lovelessknives.com/ There is no information about what is done now in this shop, just one picture of 2 older men in a shop with various tools.
There are Loveless knives on this site for $2,000 marked with the "Double Nude" logo which is one of the markings Bob Loveless used on knives he made.
What is not stated but seems to be, is that these much less expensive Loveless knives were not made by Bob Loveless but were made in this shop after Bob died.
The knives they have for sale are exact Loveless patterns and i am unable to distinguish them from knives made by Bob himself.
Can someone explain what is going on here ?
By making knives that seem indistinguishable from knives made by Bob Loveless, is this not decreasing the value of real Loveless knives ?
Other than those who are expert Loveless collectors, a buyer might think he got a good deal on a Loveless knife but in fact the knife was made after Bob Loveless died.
There must be something that i am not getting right about this ?
kj

[tongueriver]

I don't know a thing about Loveless knives. Nothing. But after R.H. Ruana died, his son-in-law and then his grandchildren made exact copies of his knives. And they are better done. They don't sell for as much. Some folk know the difference and some don't, but most do because the dollar amount is up there for any of them enough to justify research, which is easily done. The same goes for Randall Made knives. Bo has been gone awhile, but his knives are still being made and are mostly better. Are there research media available for Loveless knives?

[kennedy knives]

I don't know a thing about Loveless knives. Nothing. But after R.H. Ruana died, his son-in-law and then his grandchildren made exact copies of his knives. And they are better done. They don't sell for as much. Some folk know the difference and some don't, but most do because the dollar amount is up there for any of them enough to justify research, which is easily done. The same goes for Randall Made knives. Bo has been gone awhile, but his knives are still being made and are mostly better. Are there research media available for Loveless knives?

I think it's the same for Loveless a Family thing

[knife7knut]

The same goes for Randall Made knives. Bo has been gone awhile, but his knives are still being made and are mostly better.

Don't forget that although Bo Randall was a great knifemaker many of the knives that came from his shop were made by other people. The same with John Ek who during WWII employed more than 150 people(many of them with disabilities)making knives with his name attached.
I am not familiar with the Loveless knives coming from this shop but I am certain there are ways to differentiate them from ones that Bob himself made.

[Montanaman]

After Bob died in 2010, his long time knife making partner of 25 years, Jim Merritt took over until his death in 2018. Since, Bob's nephew has been running the shop. Bobs nephew worked with Jim since 2011, but word is that Jim did not want the shop to continue after his death. Bob had very few knifemakers work with him over the years, most notably, S.R Johnson. Jim had his own stamp as does the current " Loveless Knives" stamp. Bob also had a Merritt-Loveless stamp for knives.

Here is the foreword from AL Williams book on Loveless, he was one of Bob's best friends and collectors, and is where my drop point came from, hand made by Bob in the late 1970's.

Here are the Loveless stamps, the Loveless/Beretta should be added

[terryl308]

To go along with Montanaman, here is a book I bought that has some good info. Written by John Denton called R.W.Loveless Knives A Collectors Dream. You could contact him at info@BobLovelessKnives.com or give him a call at 706 781 8479. I believe he could fill you in . Terry

[Montanaman]

Great book, Terry, I have yet to order it from John. John's dad, J.W., was a big part of Loveless history.

[kootenay joe]

Thank you all for your posts, esp. Kris & Terry.
The Loveless marking that is being used on knives made now looks like Bob's Nude logo. But are you saying it is not the same so that knives made by Bob can be ID'd by knowing logo differences ?
kj

[Montanaman]

The Loveless marking that is being used on knives made now looks like Bob's Nude logo. But are you saying it is not the same so that knives made by Bob can be ID'd by knowing logo differences ?

Yes, the new stamp should say "Loveless Knives" and not "R.W. Loveless Maker" regardless of logo.

[kootenay joe]

Thanks. So similar to Dozier knives. But with Loveless knives made by Bob Loveless the values are so high that i think the potential confusion is a serious issue. There are people with plenty of money who are not that knife knowledgeable who might 'get a really good deal on a Loveless knife' and think they are buying a knife made by Bob Loveless.
Kris, your Loveless Hunter is worth about $5,000, correct ?
A near identical knife can be bought on the Loveless website for under $2,000. I can see unscrupulous individuals buying them for under $2,000 and listing on ebay as "Loveless Knife" for $5,000 (to include shipping) . Buyer might not realize what he actually bought until years later.
kj

[Montanaman]

Thanks. So similar to Dozier knives. But with Loveless knives made by Bob Loveless the values are so high that i think the potential confusion is a serious issue. There are people with plenty of money who are not that knife knowledgeable who might 'get a really good deal on a Loveless knife' and think they are buying a knife made by Bob Loveless.
Kris, your Loveless Hunter is worth about $5,000, correct ?
A near identical knife can be bought on the Loveless website for under $2,000. I can see unscrupulous individuals buying them for under $2,000 and listing on ebay as "Loveless Knife" for $5,000 (to include shipping) . Buyer might not realize what he actually bought until years later.
kj

A guy would have to one dumb sob to pay a lot for a knife that he knows nothing about. Not similar to Dozier knives at all. I dont find it confusing at all. Yes, that is what I payed for my drop point, but what it is worth does not translate to a dollar amount for me, I enjoy carrying and using it, as I do all my fine knives and never plan to sell any of them. A near identical drop point can NOT be purchased like mine, mine was hand made by Bob with lignum vitae, very hard to find anymore. If anyone has any questions, they should contact John Denton in the above post. He is one of the most knowledgeable people still alive that knows the complete history of Loveless knives and can easily identify a fake.

[kootenay joe]

I do not see why the Dozier comparison is not good. Bob Dozier still makes knives and they sell for $800-$900. There are other knives made in the "Dozier Shop" and these sell ~ $230-$450. The markings are different but both have the "Dozier" name. I have twice seen a 'shop' Dozier on ebay for price similar to a Bob Dozier made knife. I contacted one of the seller's and he did not know that his was not made by Bob Dozier.
I can see similar confusion now with the Loveless knives. Lots of people buy things on a whim and for many $10,000 is no big deal. Same price as their shoes.
kj

[Montanaman]

Roland, what is it you are looking for in this thread? You are tiring people out on this forum lately, IMO. Bob Loveless was selling knives of his own design for thousands of dollars in the 1980's. When Bob Loveless died, so did Bob Loveless the knife maker. RWL never sold a cheaper line of knives and had very few makers work in his shop over 50 years. Bob Dozier has an "Arkansas Made' line that is made by whoever is working there, they do not say , Bob Dozier Maker, like his hand made knives. RWL shared his designs, just like Tony Bose does. I don't think most collectors care about what is coming out of the shop anymore, they are just Loveless designs made by someone else, just like every drop point hunter you see on the market today.

[kootenay joe]

I had thought that a knife marked "Loveless" with his Nude logo was a knife made by Bob Loveless. The website for Loveless knives does not clearly state that these are not Bob Loveless made knives. So, I started this thread to find out what was going on.
I get mail outs from a few custom knife dealers and I look at ebay and other sites that sell knives and I see "Loveless" knives listed regularly. I had thought that all were knives made by Bob Loveless. I bet there are other knife collectors who have or will, make the same mistake.
I really am not really 'up' on fixed blades and this is a place where I can ask.
All this said, I am still shocked that these knives are 'allowed' to be marked with both Loveless name & logo.
kj

[ken98k]

I noticed several different logo on the knives for sale at https://www.lovelessknives.com/
many of them say "maker" which seems a little suspect to me since Bob died 10 years ago.

[kootenay joe]

Yes, that Stag Straight Hunter "R.W.Loveless/Maker/Riverside, Calif." is only $2,000.
Has the bottom dropped out of market for Bob Loveless' knives ?
I have otherwise not seen a Bob Loveless knife under $5,000.
Thanks for pointing this out Ken. This shows the confusion and why i started this thread.
kj

[ken98k]

So, I emailed Loveless Knives and asked what Logo is etched on a new Loveless knife. I got this reply from Russell Klaehn,
"When a customer orders a knife they have the choice of having either the Football Logo or the Reclining Nude Logo put on their knife. Which logo is put on their knife is entirely their choice."

[kootenay joe]

I just sent them as message asking about the Straight Hunter with "R.W. Loveless/Maker" on the blade for $2000. My question is "Was this knife made by Bob Loveless ?"
I will post reply.
kj