New China Knives ???????

[Mumbleypeg]

I have purposely tried to ignore this discussion because I know what I'm going to say will not be popular. None the less here is my opinion, supported by experience and facts. I try my best not to buy anything made in Chicom. Knives or anything else.

A while back we needed a new waffle iron. Could not find one anywhere that was not made in China. Finally found a NIB made in USA waffle iron on eBay - excellent quality. It was made maybe 30 years ago but was still in its original box with the paperwork, works great, and was comparable in price to the inferior quality POS ones made in China sold at Walmart or Target today. Took me maybe 15 minutes to find it and buy it on eBay.

I've dealt with the Chicoms in business. They steal our intellectual property with impunity. No regard whatsoever for patents or copyrights. Which means they don't have the overhead cost of paying designers or engineers for R&D. They copy everything from designs paid for by some other company. You may call that smart - I call it theft. They also manipulate currency and pay their workers nearly nothing and no benefits. Some items are made by prison labor.

The Chicom government controls everything.
If you have a business meeting with a Chinese company you can bet at least one of their people at the meeting is from the government. Regardless what you want to tell yourself to rationalize buying their goods, the fact is a portion of every sale goes to the Chicom government to fund their regime. Which includes their cyber-criminals, propaganda machine, and military. China is no friend. I may not see it in my lifetime but my children and grandchildren will some day have to deal with them.

You may certainly spend your money however you wish. Many of you won't care, or rationalize that it's someone else's problem. I will not fund our enemy. Think about it!

Ken

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

80% of the US economy is from the service sector. This isn't going to reverse course any time soon and I personally don't foresee industrial manufacturing returning to the USA. There is simply too much money to be made in the global economy for it ever to go back to country-based, protectionist economics. It's not politics, it's business.

[bestgear]

Surely I'm not the only one watching Cutlery Corner at an ungodly hour on the weekends, am I? While I've never once been tempted to make a purchase, I'm still amazed that for $200 you can buy 192 knives with free shipping and a no questions asked return policy. While we all like anything that goes sharp, what we open our wallets to is as broad as our appetites.

To the OP, your question is valid and meaningful and I fully understand your frustration to have your AAPK store searches clogged up with knives for which you have no interest. I experience the same thing on eBay but I've learned to deal with it by refining my search criteria. Bryan has been working on a better search engine that in time may allow you to filter out unwanted knives in your searches. Until then, we are all in the same boat.

[XX Case XX]

I will try to keep my thoughts to myself from now on.

Darrell:

I for one hope this is not true. I urge you to re-consider this move. Here's why:

Your opinions matter just as much as anyone else's. The whole point of AAPK is to "discuss". That's what we do. They're not called "agreements", they're called "discussions". This is how it's done. Your OP is exactly the type of thing that keeps this site "alive". This site can be up & running all day long, but if no one posts a new thread (discussion"), this site is essentially a graveyard.

I get what your post was about, I even discussed it privately with another member, and he brought up another good point that wasn't even covered by anyone else publicly. When I'm on eBay, I have to sift through 20 tons of garbage just to get to where I want to be no matter how much I narrow my search parameters. I hate that. It's time consuming and just plain frustrating. I get it.

So please do not stop sharing your thoughts, ideas, frustrations and anything else you want to add. Again, this is what we do here, and keeping your thoughts to yourself cheats us all. Tell us what you think, what you feel, how you see things. Your thoughts and ideas matter my friend.

__________
Mike

[bestgear]

I'm nominating Mike (XX Case XX) as the 30th United States Ambassador to the United Nations.......you have a gift and you use it well my friend!

[glennbad]

I can't offer anything new that hasn't already been said.

I will say however, that while some members can be very opinionated one way or another, we all agree that open discussion is acceptable, healthy, and warranted. With very rare exception, members have been able to pretty much speak openly on AAPK, even to the point of not always being politically correct, LOL. The mods do a great job in allowing members to be themselves and not rule with an iron fist, and that means welcoming most all points of view, even if we all don't always agree with them.

Please don't keep your thoughts to yourself, Darrell. Our thoughts are about the only personal rights we have left that can't be quashed by others.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

I'm nominating Mike (XX Case XX) as the 30th United States Ambassador to the United Nations.......you have a gift and you use it well my friend!

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[Steve Warden]

I'm nominating Mike (XX Case XX) as the 30th United States Ambassador to the United Nations.......you have a gift and you use it well my friend!

I second!!

edit: too late. I'll third!

[Mumbleypeg]

80% of the US economy is from the service sector. This isn't going to reverse course any time soon and I personally don't foresee industrial manufacturing returning to the USA. There is simply too much money to be made in the global economy for it ever to go back to country-based, protectionist economics. It's not politics, it's business.

Sorry I didn't make my point clearer. It takes very little effort to find an alternative to "Made in China". Buy a similar product made in Mexico, or Honduras, or Bangladesh, or Taiwan, etc. Or a new or used product made in USA, Canada, Germany, Japan, or any other country not overtly or covertly trying to conquer you.

As for that global economy you speak of, my how soon we forget. In WWII hundreds of thousands were killed or wounded with bombs made from recycled American steel. It could happen again. My father was wounded by shrapnel from one of those shells. "Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it."

As I said, you can rationalize spending your money however you choose. And so can I. I choose not to support the Chinese Communists. I'm unlikely to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine, so we agree to disagree.

Ken

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

And likewise, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not disagreeing at all with your sentiment that the US *should* have a domestic industrial base. I agree with you. I'm just saying that private companies, both large & small, no longer see this as a workable business model. They will not pass up the money to be made in using the global economy. As far as China specifically, I also agree that they are not the friends many people would like to believe they are. However, I also think they are not the same China they were in the 1970s - and that is due primarily to the influx of Western goods and ideas. Just as with the old Soviet Union, it is not isolationism and cold war that will change China, it is exposing the people to modern ideas and products. Give the people in a Communist/Socialist regime access to wine and cheese, and they will no longer be satisfied with bread and water.

I hope you know how much I enjoy having these discussions with you!

[XX Case XX]

I'm nominating Mike (XX Case XX) as the 30th United States Ambassador to the United Nations.......you have a gift and you use it well my friend!

You guys are waaaay too kind.

___________
Mike

[whitebuffalo58]

Well as usual, I find myself somewhat in the middle.

It could be any number of products, but for the sake of conversation, I'll use a toaster as an example.

Not so many years ago, I could go to any "department" type store to buy a toaster and would have say...6 choices of which one I wanted. There would be 1 or 2 from China(or other countries) in the $8-$12 range and 4 made in the U.S. ranging from say $20-$40+. But steadily it's gotten to the point where if you go to virtually any store in America, you'll have a choice of 10-12+, all made in China and all under $25. Ken made a valid point, he looked high and low for "Made in Ameria" and it simply wasn't there. That's just wrong.

Like Ken, I would much rather spend a few extra dollars on a product that I honestly felt would be worth the extra money in quality and therefore, life of the product, then to waste my money on an inferior product that I know will only last a couple years(if that) and to be right back in the same boat buying disposable junk. Many have said they buy cheap knives because they can lose and 'abuse' them without any heart ache over it. When did people start thinking like that? My dad and grandads sure never took that approach and I doubt many of yours did either. When they bought something, they bought it with pride and with the intent of taking good care of it. I've always related it to the BIC lighter. A product used on a regular basis, produced solely with the concept of throwing it away and buying another. We as consumers have taken it to a much higher level since. When's the last time you spotted a store front for a small appliance or TV repair service? Jobs lost?

However, with all that said, I do see a need for lower end products. One example would be the single mother with not a lot of extra cash, but needs a toaster to fix her kids breakfast. She should have such a product available. But it should never get to the point where it's the only choice any of us have and as far as I can tell, we're getting dangerously close to that point now.

For me personally, I want to feel secure in the idea that if I have a couple of extra bucks to spend, then I'll still have a chance to spend it how I wish, but the choices are dwindling.


WB

[Steve Warden]

... to spend it how I wish...

WB

And there ya go.

[Quick Steel]

A stray thought. I hate seeing great old American knife companies go out of business, as we all do. So I am glad that one of the godfathers of the knife industry, AG Russell, is still in business because he incorporated some good quality China knives into his offerings. Darwin's point wasn't so much about survival of the strongest. It was all about survival by the most adaptable.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

Here's another aspect to the story: What, *exactly* does "Made in America" mean? There are VERY few consumer products today that have zero components manufactured outside the USA, and even fewer where at least one of the raw materials is not from outside the USA. Let's take a few of the pinnacles of "Made in the USA" knives: Case, GEC, Benchmade, etc. Does that Case knife have Sambar stag scales? Those deer probably lived in China or India. Or, how about Micarta scales? Micarta was invented by George Westinghouse and the trademark is owned by the Norplex-Micarta Company that is based in Postsville, Iowa, USA. So far, so good. From the Norplex-Micarta website:

The global headquarters of Norplex-Micarta is located in Postville, Iowa, USA. To support the demand for thermoset composite materials in Asia, the Company also operates a facility in Changzhou, Jiangsu, P.R. China. Customers outside of mainland China are serviced by a trade offices located in Shanghai and Shenzhen.

Oops. Now, it's possible that the US market is entirely supplied from their US facilities, but I doubt it. I would be willing to bet that at the very least, the bulk Micarta sheets are shipped from China to the US for fabrication and then the final product is distributed from there.

I work for a company that produces a product that is proudly "Made in America". And it is absolutely true that it was designed, engineered, assembled and tested in our factory in Texas. At the same time, all the plastic castings come from a factory in Mexico. The motherboard is manufactured in China, and other components come from factories around the world.

[jerryd6818]

Finally, someone who recognizes that Micarta is a brand name and not a product.