camper/military knives

[Berryb]

Is there an article somewhere that deals with the history of these knives? These are my only two. A mystery USA and a Camillus 1971. At first glance they look pretty much the same but there are over a dozen differences. The biggest are brass liners and divider, and carbon steel instead of all stainless. I'm interested in who made the first ones, and when the military started with them. Could you get them without the US stamp on the handle at hardware stores and sport shops? I think I have more questions, but that's more than enough for now. Thanks
Bruce

[bestgear]

Hi Bruce - I can tell you that Kingston (which was formed by Ulster and Imperial in 1943) produced an Official Boy Scout knife with metal checkered handles between 1945-1947. The company was dissolved when Ulster and Imperial merged to form Imperial Knife Associated Companies. They also produced an Official Girl Scout knife with metal checkered handles which was shown in a 1946 catalog with the words "discontinued". Both asre considered very rare and difficult to find with an etch (the best way authenticate them). Hope this helps. Tom

[jerryd6818]

Tom, I was under the impression the ones Kingston made in the early '40s were for the military, commonly called MIL-K. Have I been laboring under false information?

Called by some, the "Demo" knife (short for demolition) I have a Word doc on it's history written by a fella by the name of Ken Cook. Send an email to me at LAAM_Marine@yahoo.com and I will ship that Word doc off to you.

[bestgear]

In 1943, Albert Baer (owner of Ulster Knife Company which he purchased in 1941) organized Kingston Cutlery Company (an old Ulster trademark), a joint venture with Imperial to make government contract knives. Chief among the knives made under the Kingston brand were the TL-29 (K-29, K-29-W) Electrician knife, and the MIL-K-818-D (K-4611) utility knife. Both Ulster and Imperial received awards for excellence as suppliers of these knives.

In 1946, Albert Baer, under Kingston Cutlery Company, bought Schrade Cutlery Company and renamed it the Schrade Walden Cutlery Corporation. It became a division of Imperial Knife Associated Companies Group which includes Imperial Knife Company, Inc. of Providence, R.I., Ulster Knife Company Inc. of Ellenville, N.Y.,Schrade Walden Cutlery Corp., of Walden N.Y., and Kingston Cutlery Co., addressed New York, N.Y.

With the newly formed association of the four major cutleries, IKAC was able to provide the cutlery trade with an all-embracing selection of merchandise and values with a price structure that will meet every possible retailing need. The IMPERIAL-ULSTER-KINGSTON-SCHRADE amalgamation now made possible a combined line which will include every conceivable type and variety of pocket knife, at prices ingeniously devised to meet competition in all price brackets, from lowest to highest.

This pricing spread was generally Imperial as the lowest with the shell handled knives, Midgets, Jackmasters and Hammerbrands., Kingston as better constructed low end working knives, Ulsters as mid-range knives and Schrade Walden's as the upper price point knives.

Kingston sales was good through the late 1940's through mid 1950's, but began to slip in the late 1950's, and for many reasons, the Kingston line was basically reabsorbed into the Ulster line which itself saw fading sales. IKAC announced to it's salesmen in 1960 that the Kingston line was to be discontinued as stocks were sold down. The Kingston lineup went from the fifteen patterns initially listed to nine in 1959, then four by 1964, then from 1968 through 1972, only the K-29 electrician's knife was left. By then, even the Ulster brand was losing popularity. One reason seldom mentioned, but historically significant, was the period of Irish history known as "The Troubles". Salesmen reported back to the headquarters that in certain areas of the U.S., knives with the Ulster stamp were nearly impossible to sell. Thus, eventually the Ulster mark was phased out as well, used sporadically on special limited editions, like the Boy Scout Anniversary knife.

It's ironic that both Kingston, which bought Schrade, and Ulster, which spawned Kingston, were both reduced to divisions of Schrade Walden, and Imperial, which facilitated the Schrade Walden / Schrade Cutlery's meteoric rise eventually was reduced to a branding used by Schrade. Yes, there were many shuffling of the cards over the years, but these four combined companies once ruled the cutlery market in a way that few companies have done in other industries. When you add in Camillus cutlery, also a Baer family enterprise, the percentage of the U.S. cutlery market controlled for many years is astounding.

The Kingston catalog brochure sheets, 1947-59 listed and illustrated the following knives:

K-230 - 3 3/8" two blade equal end Jack knife, clip and pen
K-240 - 3 ½" two blade medium size serpentine Jack knife, clip and pen
K-250 - 3 1/4" two blade slim serpentine Jack knife, clip and pen
K-253 - 3 1/4" two blade serpentine pen knife, spear and pen,
K-260 - 3 3/8" two blade Jack knife, clip and pen
K-320 - 3 3/4" three blade equal end cattle knife, clip, spey, and punch
K-321 - 3 3/4" three blade equal end cattle knife, spear, spey, and pen
K-330 - 3 3/8" three blade small equal end knife, clip, spey, and punch
K-331 - 3 3/8" three blade small equal end knife, clip, spey, and pen
K-340 - 3 ½" three blade medium size premium stock knife, clip, spey, and punch
K-341 - 3 ½" three blade medium size premium stock knife, clip, spey, and pen
K-351 - 3 1/4" three blade slim premium stock knife, clip, spey, and pen
421 - four blade Automobilist knife, stag plastic handles (camp knife), spear, can opener, bottle opener/screwdriver, pen
K-4611 - 3 3/4" four blade Military Mil-K-811-D knife
K-3611 - 3 3/4" three blade Cattle knife civilian version of the Military knife, spear, spey, and punch

(From Google)

[Berryb]

Lots of good information but more questions. Do you think the USA marked knife is one of those '47 to '59 knives? Is the punch a clue to the maker or date? Thanks
Bruce

[Case V42]

Bruce,

According to Mike Silvey's "Pocket Knives of the U.S. Military", Kingston produced the "KNIFE, POCKET, GENERAL PURPOSE" during the "...latter stages of the war". All of these knives produced during WW2 had brass liners and carbon steel springs. Many of the knives were marked KINGSTON OR STEVENSON on the "clevis". I own several examples and they all have a knurled pin on the screwdriver, and the safety can opener. I'm afraid I can't help any on the post-war variations.

The bone handled knife in the photo is a mint four-blade engineer's from WW2 showing the KINGSTON blade etch under a film of cosmoline. The 2 knives to the left are excellent clevis-marked Kingstons, and the knife on the right is a clevis-marked Stevenson.

[Berryb]

interesting information guys. Thanks. V42 the only differences I can see between yours and mine is mine has no knob on the opener and no stamp on the clevis. Do any of yours have the USA tang stamp? Thanks
Bruce

[philco]

Case V42 you have posted some excellent examples.
I'd be proud to own any one of them.
Thanks for sharing them.

[Steve Warden]

Some great history.
The ones Bruce posted in his first post are what were standard issue in our flight line toolboxes, at least while I was in from 1980 - 2000.
About a year or so before I retired they started issuing us aircraft maintenance guys the Leatherman Super Tool, complete with belt sheath. The were engraved with our name, employee number, and unit. In my case, the 605th AGS, Aircraft Generation Squadron. I was an avionics tech.

[Case V42]

Bruce,

None of the knives in the photo have any markings other than the name on the clevis. There is no tang stamp or handle markings, although I know I have one marked for the Marine Corps, I just can't find it right now! The stud you see on the knives is actually on the screwdriver, and I've read it was supposedly designed to be used as a rifle take-down tool. My interest has been exclusively in the WW2 knives, so I have attempted to learn to discern those. In an article by Dennis Ellingsen in Knife World he states, "...from 1946 until 1948 Imperial/Ulster/Kingston were producing 500 to 600 dozen metal knives per day." "The majority of knives produced during this time had no markings on them at all." I have therefore made it my working premise that only brass-lined knives marked with either Kingston or Stevenson on the clevis are genuinely WW2 military issue. If your knife isn't marked on the clevis, I'd expect it to be of early post-war production. Another great bit of information from Dennis' article is the fact that no Mil-K knives were produced between 1947 and 1955. And, "The first all stainless steel pocket utility knife was produced by Camillus Cutlery in 1957."

Therefore, I think it is fairly safe to conclude that your brass-lined knife is a post-war commercially sold example, and is one of those 500 to 600 dozen per day produced by Imperial Associated companies.

I just looked on Knife Magazine's website and they still list "Military Knives A Reference Book" for sale. The excellent Mil-K article is included in that book.