Mercy!!

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Dinadan
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Dinadan »

Those are beautiful knives. I really like the Whaler body shape - reminds me of a whale. And those super wide blades just appeal to something in me. Great photos, fellows!

Regarding the need for the broad blade for cutting large diameter line, I am not so sure. I recall from my USN days that when a large diameter line is under strain a Buck 110 would slice it faster than cutting a tomato. I guess if the line were laying on deck then it would be a harder to cut and a wide blade with a baton would work well.
Mel
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by kootenay joe »

I believe this pattern goes back to the days of sailing vessels which having sails had lots of rope of varying diameters. Plus rope to tie cargo down, fasten on life boats, tie up to dock, etc. I bet a lot more rope on ships then than now. I think the very deep blade was for cutting through all diameters of rope, usually with a baton & 2 guys, one holds knife firmly, other guy wields baton.
kj
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by LongBlade »

Just my 2 cents - I can not disagree that those big old" toenails" may have been used for rope but my understanding was that they were used more often by lumberjacks - even there I am sure heavy rope was used and cut with these but rope knives used by sailors as you all probably know had a different style blade with a squared or flat tip so that the sails were not cut when ropes attached to sails needed to be cut.....
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by JohnR »

These are great knives guys, when they were first introduced they sat on dealers shelves for awhile, now they go for big money. I sure hope GEC does another run.

I lucked into 2 of the Lumberjack's at last years Rendezvous, made from left over parts, only difference from the Whaler is the blade is on the small end, these monsters just bring a big grin to my face every time I handle them.

Kj, I pretty much heard the same story about using them to baton thru thick rope but on oil rigs and logging.
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Tsar Bomba
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Tsar Bomba »

These things dwarf a large sunfish. I knew the Whaler was big but now I'm seriously intrigued... ::facepalm::
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by LongBlade »

For what it is worth - In addition to what I noted above about lumberjacks (or logging as noted by others) which was told to me by a few well versed knife collectors who I respect and trust - I read the following in Levine's book and obviously based on Levine's research - these knives influenced by scandinavian knives were also often used by framer carpenters and those hanging trolley/telegraph lines in the mid to later 19th century... my take and as an aside: knives though "defined " as a style or pattern used for "whatever" and often termed as such by a maker were tools for the jobs in which they would perform well... while we often discuss and second guess what they are called or used for as a tool, I think most of us (and me included) forget knives were tools - I don't think cutlers/jobbers of the old days would have ever thought some day there would be folks interested in collecting these knives or "tools" and trying to determine terminology etc... and based on that knives were used for anything that made it the best tool available for the job... as many of you know any job you are doing is much easier when you have the right tools to do the job... often I think we overthink knives BUT indeed that is part of the fun ::nod:: :D
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by kootenay joe »

Different patterns of folding knives emerged over about 100-150 yr time span. The patterns developed in an effort to make a tool most suitable for a certain task or line of work; i.e. there is reason for every aspect of the design in every pattern.
Once a person owned a knife he could use it for whatever he wanted, but that does not negate the fact that it has an intended use.
kj
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by LongBlade »

KJ (Roland) - I think we are saying the same thing and your reply was more to the point ::tu:: - my note regarding maker names and tools above was probably abit too wordy ::handshake:: ...
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carrmillus
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by carrmillus »

..wow!!!....way bigger than my old Camillus!!.... :shock: ...........
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by kootenay joe »

LB, i did mis-understand your post. Thanks for clearing it up.
kj
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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Mumbleypeg »

In his book Steve Pfeiffer offers his opinion that the pattern was developed as a heavy duty work knife for workers in the Pennsylvania area oil fields. He states the lack of any evidence that the sunfish pattern was ever used on sailing vessels. Instead the knife was "useful for working with the heavy timbers and hemp ropes used on oil derricks", and the pattern was primarily produced by Case and other firms situated in Pennsylvania and New York, near to the early oil industry.

Pretty compelling arguments IMHO.

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Re: Mercy!!

Post by kootenay joe »

Is there no history of this pattern in vintage Sheffield knives ? i.e. older than Case.
kj
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Tsar Bomba »

Regardless of the original intention of these knives, it's clear that old sunfish/toes and related knives were used and batonned in a fashion similar to the story behind the "english rope knife". There is a severe shortage of quality old toes with intact long pulls due to the fact that batonning would often knock the top of a long pull right off the blade given enough repetitive force over time. I have little difficulty believing that a sailor would have seen a folding knife like a toe and immediately seen the utility of bringing that knife aboard, so I have no trouble believing that both use cases can be found peppered throughout the toe's history.

Plus, mine do a hell of a job carving through thick steaks. :lol:
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by JohnR »

kootenay joe wrote:Is there no history of this pattern in vintage Sheffield knives ? i.e. older than Case.
kj
Kj, I don't ever remember coming across a Sheffield made knife in this pattern, I think this is a uniquely American pattern but I could be wrong.
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by FRJ »

Well, there's this one. .......... from France ................
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Tsar Bomba »

kootenay joe wrote:Is there no history of this pattern in vintage Sheffield knives ? i.e. older than Case.
If I'm right about the "beginning of Case", this pattern is indeed older. As FRJ showed, there are plenty of old European toes out there, lots of them suffering from the batonning damage I mentioned before. His is an absolute gem, though, and I always appreciate when he shares it. ::tu::

I imagine another possible explanation is that European cutlers began producing a pattern that may have originated in America, or had been shared across the pond by migrating cutlers, and the use many of those knives found were distinctly more marine than the American counterparts.

As an aside, regarding Pennsylvania oil fields, I always thought it was appropriate that GEC released a run of knives in the oil sucker rod wood handles. They have a fascinating history (but are waaay smaller than the behemoths featured in this thread :mrgreen: ).
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carrmillus
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by carrmillus »

bkazz5 wrote:I have a couple Whalers. Big ole knives. I also have this Bob Cargill Cripple Creek that is from 1980/81. Lots of similarities to the GEC Whaler. Maybe just a little bigger.
...BK, is the photo distorted or is that last one that much bigger than the other two???.......... ::shrug:: ...........
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Dinadan
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Dinadan »

Anyone have any photos of the toes or whalers that have been damaged by beating on the spine?
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LongBlade
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by LongBlade »

That's an excellent question Mel!!! If indeed they were hammered on the spine one would expect to see some evidence of that use....
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Edgewise »

kootenay joe wrote:Rope on sailing vessels can be 2" or more in diameter. The deep blade helps keep the spine exposed for hitting with the baton. Plus the blade is rather stout to keep it from deflecting off course; i.e. won't flex.
kj
Understood. It's just the name "whaler" that has my imagination going. :shock:
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by kootenay joe »

Whoa, you can have a whale of a good time with this Whaler knife. You know, you can really whale away on it and when you do you become a 'whaler' just like your knife. Waylon the Whaler !
kj
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Edgewise »

I have a couple sunfish and elephant toes, but no whalers. :?
Has anyone ever used one of those whalers, or even cut a 2" rope, whaler or not? ::uc::
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by Edgewise »

kootenay joe wrote:Whoa, you can have a whale of a good time with this Whaler knife. You know, you can really whale away on it and when you do you become a 'whaler' just like your knife. Waylon the Whaler !
kj
Have mercy, kj !
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by bkazz5 »

Carmillus, the pic is correct. The Cargill is bigger. I will get some pics of them together.
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Re: Mercy!!

Post by kootenay joe »

"The Cargill is bigger."
How so ? Cargill looks to measure exactly 4". My GEC Whaler is 4 3/8".
But the real test of 'bigger' is mass. Other than seeing how much water each would displace, comparing their weight would show which is 'bigger'. (not exactly accurate as handle slabs are different material)
kj
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