Opinions on cleaning

[bighomer]

In my best Isley brothers imitation , "It's yore thang do whatcha wanta do, I can't tell you, who to sock it to.

[Colonel26]

Again,great topic to review.

I think it is silly to take a obviously well used knife and shine and buff it out to look
practically new. Clean it up, sharpen it, and make it a little more shiny is fine.
The knife is no longer mint, so why attempt to over compensate.
Over buffing would make me not want to buy it.

Bob

Below, Slim-line Trapper, 62048. I spent quite a bit of time cleaning it
and had it professionally sharpened. It still shows it's great age.

Very good! It looks exactly as it should. Ya done good imo.

[Colonel26]

In my best Isley brothers imitation , "It's yore thang do whatcha wanta do, I can't tell you, who to sock it to.

ROFL! Love it.

[blueheeler1959]

I am just new on this site, and didnt notice the age of this post when I was reading it, but I started out in a different antique metal category and I used to use something cheap easy to find and a little weird I have to admit. I heard about it from my dad who was in the Navy in WW2 he said the Navy kept huge vats of replacement parts for ships in ......molasses ....yep it will remove badly rusted pieces and will also keep pieces from rusting . I tried it on a couple of old toys that were so rusty that they were almost a block, just dropped them in and left them in a plastic tub of regular old kitchen grade molasses. sort of forgot them and went back a week and a half later took it out and was pretty darn shocked when I took a tooth brush to the toy. It was pitted but you could see now where there was paint still on it and writing freakin amazing! For the heck of it I tried it on a off brand pocket knife that had been so abused it was impossible to open because of the rust. I am really unhappy with myself for not having taken photos.dropped in in the molasses left if two weeks pulled it out and decided to leave it a bit longer, I mean this thing was a block of rust. took it out a week and a half later and took a stiff toothbrush to it and was shocked as heck I could see down along the liners and when I got a good grip and pulled like a mule I got a blade open and I would have never thought that would happen, long story short tossed it back in after I got the other blade open and went back a week later and brushed it all off, it was a knife again., granted it is really pitted, but it opens and closes but the odd thing the molasses did it left a dark color on the blade almost like bluing the barrel on a gun its not un attractive, just different so i am not sure if its something that you want to try out on something good and I have to say I have not tried to polish away the dark color from the blade, Just thought I would put it on here, because rust just plain sucks we all hate it and evidently so does molasses .

[Quick Steel]

Very interesting blueheeler. Even tho you don't have a before photo, could you show us an after photo. I'm curious as to what the new coloration looks like.

[blueheeler1959]

Ha ha knew you would ask that I have been searching for that knife have not found it yet should be able to though I saw it when I reorganized my office last month.

[blueheeler1959]

I happened to think I had a straight razor I found in a foreclosure that was almost solid rust its been in the tub for a while so I pulled it out and brushed it down, it needs a longer time it still has some rust as you can see and there was a piece of paper I didnt know was down in the crevice so you actually can see the way the molasses has darkened part of the blade in most of it and not so much in the area the gunk was over the blade. the steel should be comparable to a knife blade I would think so this should give you a idea I plopped it back in after I took the pictures. Does that give you a good idea? Blue

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Blueheeler that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing, I may give mollases a shot just for the heck of it next time I end up with a rough knife.

[Duffer]

Very interesting indeed! What a novel knife/straight razor cleaning formula Lloyd

[blueheeler1959]

I took a old toy truck out last night that you could not even turn the wheels it cleaned up amazingly! Could not believe how well it turned out.

[jerryd6818]

Do you use Molasses or Sorghum? Most folks just lump 'em together (thus the term sorghum molasses) but here's a difference.

[blueheeler1959]

good ole sulphur old fashioned molasses

[jerryd6818]

So plain old blackstrap molasses.

[blueheeler1959]

yep i just sent someone else a message that i have wondered if the sulfur in the molasses is what causes the darkening of the blades. i have been going to look and see if the are molasses without sulfur and try a blade to see if i loose the darkening i am also behind on trying a few things to remove the darkening effect.maybe all of your interest will inspire me to get off my duff.

[Mumbleypeg]

I've used molasses for years as a livestock feed supplement and as a fertilizer. All this talk about molasses rust remover got my curiosity going so I googled "molasses removes rust".

A cursory look found some interesting stuff on the internet about it, including some skepticism. Most of what I read concerned mixing molasses and water, anywhere from 9 parts water to 1 part molasses, to 3 parts water and 1 part molasses. All indicated good results, all indicated its a slow process. I saw very little specifics about what kind of molasses was used, but maybe a more thorough search would find something about that. One guy made a 55 gallon drum full, for submersing large items, implying using dried molasses from the feed store mixed with water.

May be the type of molasses isn't critical.

Ken

[SolWarrior]

Sulfur does cause steel to darken. But does unsulphured molasses work as good as sulphered for removing rust?

A nice patina on a good blade protects and is much like aging gracefully.

Ken, I was about to mention that real molasses (rich carbohydrates) is a great fertilizer. I usually put a tablespoon to one gallon of water and add to plants that are losing its healthy green color.

[blueheeler1959]

could be true as you say & I agree it is a sllooowwww process the truck i just pulled out took thee weeks but I found it interesting it disolved the rust but left the paint that was still there in place I will take a pic of the truck this evening and post it so you can see the results. Blue

[blueheeler1959]

I know these are not knives but I am putting on these photos because I dont quite understand why molasses will disolve rust but not paint. This little toy truck was so rusty the wheels would not turn three weeks in molasses I took it out and took a look and put it back one more week, here is what I ended up with, the three wheels left all turn now but I dont get why the paint was not ate away along with the rust, anyone want to make some guesses or maybe someone knows why it would be this way, seems odd to me. Blue

[SolWarrior]

Blue, that's awesome. Classic toy truck too. It likely does it in a non aggresive way. Without alkalines or acids and such. Maybe even nuteralizing the alkaline in water too. Theses two surface cleaning chemicals were the main type of ways we at a plating shop would process diferent type of steels - one step of a few prior to plating. The molasses seems to slowly soak in, gently dissolving the rust layer by layer as it goes and leaving what appears to be a smooth protective coating behind as well. That's my guess.

[blueheeler1959]

Hey thank you I was hoping someone would tell me why it works so far all I am sure of is that it does work, I put a light coat of oil on the truck I am always worried without it the blasted rust will creep back. Blue

[americanedgetech]

Older thread but this is how molasses works on rust...

Molasses made from young sugar cane is called sulphured molasses because of the sulfur dioxide that is added to keep the raw cane fresh until it is processed and to preserve the molasses byproducts produced from it. ... Blackstrap molasses can be sulphured or unsulphured.
What Is the Difference Between Blackstrap Molasses & Unsulphured ...
https://www.livestrong.com/.../507716-w ... trap-molas...

H2S(g) + O2(g) xxv SO2(g) + H2O(g) The sulfur dioxide is oxidized to sulfur trioxide catalytically. Without the catalyst, the oxidation of SO2 is quite slow. ... The product SO3 is dissolved in 98% sulfuric acid. The dissolved SO3 reacts with the 2% water, forming H2SO4.Sep 17, 2007
SULFURIC ACID, H2SO4
http://www.scifun.org/CHEMWEEK/PDF/Sulf ... micals.pdf

The sulfur used in molasses is sulfur dioxide. Combined with an oxidizer (iron oxide) it forms sulfuric acid.
If you want molasses to work faster add hydrogen peroxide, and watch the show...

[Lansky1]

I am a woodworker that uses old hand tools, specifically old Stanley bench planes. Reason is that the antique Stanley planes are far better than the currently manufactured versions (aside from Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen). So, I spent many years gut-rehabbing very old Stanley planes and through a lot of sweat, made them all look better than new. I have absolutely no love for patina - I grind it off all my tools.

Same would apply to vintage knives in principle, but as I won't pay what they bring on eBay, I don't own any (I own many Case knives, all post 1970). So to answer the OP's thread - if I ever did get my hands on a nice vintage knife, I would take my time and make it spanky new looking.

[americanedgetech]

I had to think about that Lansky...

Rescuing a knife from a rusty death is fine, Cleaning handles, and bolsters I think is also fine in some cases (not all) but rebuilding a vintage knife to "like new" is sort of different unless you look at them as nothing more than tools with patterns that you like.

Perhaps it really does all come down to the collector, and what he/she wants.

I am sort of 60/40 in this aspect of collecting because I do see that shinny sells, and great old knives in worn/poor condition are just overlooked.
There also appears to be no "rule" for condition as much as there is opinion. One fella would get ill looking at a "re-worked" knife, and the next fella would bid thru the roof to acquire it. I really don't get it yet so for now I like shinny but prefer to see original.

[Old Folder]

I am a woodworker that uses old hand tools, specifically old Stanley bench planes. Reason is that the antique Stanley planes are far better than the currently manufactured versions (aside from Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen). So, I spent many years gut-rehabbing very old Stanley planes and through a lot of sweat, made them all look better than new. I have absolutely no love for patina - I grind it off all my tools.

Same would apply to vintage knives in principle, but as I won't pay what they bring on eBay, I don't own any (I own many Case knives, all post 1970). So to answer the OP's thread - if I ever did get my hands on a nice vintage knife, I would take my time and make it spanky new looking.

John, I would love to see pictures of your "Old Stanley Planes" do you have any pictures posted in any of our Specialty Forums of such?

I am also in total agreement with your opinion of patina (rust). It does not belong on my knives.

[Gizmo1211]

Okay, I'm learning a lot wandering around here, but still have sooomuch to learn! So, what is "giving a bath" mean? And what's best to get rid of rust? Finally, I have a collectors casexx never out of tin, I looked at paperwork, it says to oil the blades? I want to sell it, "untouched" cause it is, but should I oil it? I'm guessing there's some sort of special products? Yes I know... I see you thinking, but hey, I appreciate the expert advice! Never too old to learn I guess!
Thanks
Karen