Opinions on cleaning

[jerryd6818]

Do you use Molasses or Sorghum? Most folks just lump 'em together (thus the term sorghum molasses) but here's a difference.

[blueheeler1959]

good ole sulphur old fashioned molasses

[jerryd6818]

So plain old blackstrap molasses.

[blueheeler1959]

yep i just sent someone else a message that i have wondered if the sulfur in the molasses is what causes the darkening of the blades. i have been going to look and see if the are molasses without sulfur and try a blade to see if i loose the darkening i am also behind on trying a few things to remove the darkening effect.maybe all of your interest will inspire me to get off my duff.

[Mumbleypeg]

I've used molasses for years as a livestock feed supplement and as a fertilizer. All this talk about molasses rust remover got my curiosity going so I googled "molasses removes rust".

A cursory look found some interesting stuff on the internet about it, including some skepticism. Most of what I read concerned mixing molasses and water, anywhere from 9 parts water to 1 part molasses, to 3 parts water and 1 part molasses. All indicated good results, all indicated its a slow process. I saw very little specifics about what kind of molasses was used, but maybe a more thorough search would find something about that. One guy made a 55 gallon drum full, for submersing large items, implying using dried molasses from the feed store mixed with water.

May be the type of molasses isn't critical.

Ken

[SolWarrior]

Sulfur does cause steel to darken. But does unsulphured molasses work as good as sulphered for removing rust?

A nice patina on a good blade protects and is much like aging gracefully.

Ken, I was about to mention that real molasses (rich carbohydrates) is a great fertilizer. I usually put a tablespoon to one gallon of water and add to plants that are losing its healthy green color.

[blueheeler1959]

could be true as you say & I agree it is a sllooowwww process the truck i just pulled out took thee weeks but I found it interesting it disolved the rust but left the paint that was still there in place I will take a pic of the truck this evening and post it so you can see the results. Blue

[blueheeler1959]

I know these are not knives but I am putting on these photos because I dont quite understand why molasses will disolve rust but not paint. This little toy truck was so rusty the wheels would not turn three weeks in molasses I took it out and took a look and put it back one more week, here is what I ended up with, the three wheels left all turn now but I dont get why the paint was not ate away along with the rust, anyone want to make some guesses or maybe someone knows why it would be this way, seems odd to me. Blue

[SolWarrior]

Blue, that's awesome. Classic toy truck too. It likely does it in a non aggresive way. Without alkalines or acids and such. Maybe even nuteralizing the alkaline in water too. Theses two surface cleaning chemicals were the main type of ways we at a plating shop would process diferent type of steels - one step of a few prior to plating. The molasses seems to slowly soak in, gently dissolving the rust layer by layer as it goes and leaving what appears to be a smooth protective coating behind as well. That's my guess.

[blueheeler1959]

Hey thank you I was hoping someone would tell me why it works so far all I am sure of is that it does work, I put a light coat of oil on the truck I am always worried without it the blasted rust will creep back. Blue

[americanedgetech]

Older thread but this is how molasses works on rust...

Molasses made from young sugar cane is called sulphured molasses because of the sulfur dioxide that is added to keep the raw cane fresh until it is processed and to preserve the molasses byproducts produced from it. ... Blackstrap molasses can be sulphured or unsulphured.
What Is the Difference Between Blackstrap Molasses & Unsulphured ...
https://www.livestrong.com/.../507716-w ... trap-molas...

H2S(g) + O2(g) xxv SO2(g) + H2O(g) The sulfur dioxide is oxidized to sulfur trioxide catalytically. Without the catalyst, the oxidation of SO2 is quite slow. ... The product SO3 is dissolved in 98% sulfuric acid. The dissolved SO3 reacts with the 2% water, forming H2SO4.Sep 17, 2007
SULFURIC ACID, H2SO4
http://www.scifun.org/CHEMWEEK/PDF/Sulf ... micals.pdf

The sulfur used in molasses is sulfur dioxide. Combined with an oxidizer (iron oxide) it forms sulfuric acid.
If you want molasses to work faster add hydrogen peroxide, and watch the show...

[Lansky1]

I am a woodworker that uses old hand tools, specifically old Stanley bench planes. Reason is that the antique Stanley planes are far better than the currently manufactured versions (aside from Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen). So, I spent many years gut-rehabbing very old Stanley planes and through a lot of sweat, made them all look better than new. I have absolutely no love for patina - I grind it off all my tools.

Same would apply to vintage knives in principle, but as I won't pay what they bring on eBay, I don't own any (I own many Case knives, all post 1970). So to answer the OP's thread - if I ever did get my hands on a nice vintage knife, I would take my time and make it spanky new looking.

[americanedgetech]

I had to think about that Lansky...

Rescuing a knife from a rusty death is fine, Cleaning handles, and bolsters I think is also fine in some cases (not all) but rebuilding a vintage knife to "like new" is sort of different unless you look at them as nothing more than tools with patterns that you like.

Perhaps it really does all come down to the collector, and what he/she wants.

I am sort of 60/40 in this aspect of collecting because I do see that shinny sells, and great old knives in worn/poor condition are just overlooked.
There also appears to be no "rule" for condition as much as there is opinion. One fella would get ill looking at a "re-worked" knife, and the next fella would bid thru the roof to acquire it. I really don't get it yet so for now I like shinny but prefer to see original.

[Old Folder]

I am a woodworker that uses old hand tools, specifically old Stanley bench planes. Reason is that the antique Stanley planes are far better than the currently manufactured versions (aside from Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen). So, I spent many years gut-rehabbing very old Stanley planes and through a lot of sweat, made them all look better than new. I have absolutely no love for patina - I grind it off all my tools.

Same would apply to vintage knives in principle, but as I won't pay what they bring on eBay, I don't own any (I own many Case knives, all post 1970). So to answer the OP's thread - if I ever did get my hands on a nice vintage knife, I would take my time and make it spanky new looking.

John, I would love to see pictures of your "Old Stanley Planes" do you have any pictures posted in any of our Specialty Forums of such?

I am also in total agreement with your opinion of patina (rust). It does not belong on my knives.

[Gizmo1211]

Okay, I'm learning a lot wandering around here, but still have sooomuch to learn! So, what is "giving a bath" mean? And what's best to get rid of rust? Finally, I have a collectors casexx never out of tin, I looked at paperwork, it says to oil the blades? I want to sell it, "untouched" cause it is, but should I oil it? I'm guessing there's some sort of special products? Yes I know... I see you thinking, but hey, I appreciate the expert advice! Never too old to learn I guess!
Thanks
Karen

[Gizmo1211]

Okay, I'm learning a lot wandering around here, but still have sooomuch to learn! So, what is "giving a bath" mean? And what's best to get rid of rust? Finally, I have a collectors casexx never out of tin, I looked at paperwork, it says to oil the blades? I want to sell it, "untouched" cause it is, but should I oil it? I'm guessing there's some sort of special products? Yes I know... I see you thinking, but hey, I appreciate the expert advice! Never too old to learn I guess!
Thanks
Karen

[Mumbleypeg]

Okay, I'm learning a lot wandering around here, but still have sooomuch to learn! So, what is "giving a bath" mean? And what's best to get rid of rust? Finally, I have a collectors casexx never out of tin, I looked at paperwork, it says to oil the blades? I want to sell it, "untouched" cause it is, but should I oil it? I'm guessing there's some sort of special products? Yes I know... I see you thinking, but hey, I appreciate the expert advice! Never too old to learn I guess!
Thanks
Karen

Welcome to AAPK! Keep looking around. The "search" engine here is found under Quick Links, and can be a great help.

"Giving a bath" refers to washing a used knife in lukewarm water with a little dish soap in it, using an old soft toothbrush to get out dirt, pocket lint, and such. After washing, rinse with plain water, thoroughly dry the knife and use compressed air to flush all the moisture out of the joints and blade wells. Then wipe the blades with a lightweight oil (like 3-in-1, or mineral oil for example) and place a drop of oil into each of the joints and work the blades open and closed a few times to distribute the oil. Wipe off any excess oil, and you're done.

Your new "never out of tin" knife doesn't need any oil until you intend to take it out of its packaging and use it. If you're planning to sell the knife, leave the oiling to the new owner.

Ken

[Gizmo1211]

Thanks Ken!! Great information
Karen

[Ivoryman]

I like rubbing alcohol on the brass and steel, butcher block wax on the wood. Alcohol removes the verdigris and other gunk, but not the patina. I sometimes use Simichrome metal polish on steel and brass, but other times not if I don't want to change the patina or make it too shiny. Sometimes the aged, used look is what I want and less work. I also use a rubber eraser on rust and pitting, and sometimes if it's really bad, a tool I made of copper wire and a handle. The copper wire is softer than steel and will remove rust in pits without removing steel or brass. Simichrome works great, but leaves no aged character if that's what you want. Depends on the knife. And patina and aged looks can easily be created with some forced from fruit juice, mustard, vinegar, lemon or lime juice etc. I like red grape juice because it makes it blue instead of black. The Waynorth Cutlery Lambsfoot 93 pictured had some pitting and the copper wire tool removed it and didn't mar the steel. Brightened it up to where you can barely see where the pits were.

[geocash]

If you’re gonna “clean to mint” you might as well use an indelible marker & make it a “salesman’s sample” while you’re at it. It’s only mint one time.