Let's keep it clean

Discuss or show off anything that relates to knives.
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philco
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Let's keep it clean

Post by philco » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:51 pm

I have noticed an increase in the use of coarse, profane, and unacceptable language on the forums here of late. AAPK is a family site and there are young folks and ladies who participate here. I have edited some posts where I found inappropriate language. When you joined AAPK you agreed not to use profanity here. Please live up to that agreement so that AAPK can continue to be a place where everyone can enjoy themselves.

Thank you.
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by RobesonsRme.com » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:47 pm

Sorry for the part my old crass self had in prompting this post from Phil.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by peanut740 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:57 pm

Ahhh ::censored:: Phil!
Roger

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by bestgear » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:20 pm

Thanks for the reminder Phil but it begs the question, what else did we agree to when we registered that we need to be more attentive to?
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by junebug » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:18 pm

I THINK WE SHOULD WRASSLE OVER THE RIGHT TA CUSS. ::shrug::
















(*** NOTE : THIS IS A JOKE & NO SINGLETS WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS PHOTO ::super_happy:: )
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LETS WRASSLE!!!!.jpg
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by MITCH RAPP » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:48 pm

::rotflol:: ::rotflol:: ::rotflol:: ::rotflol:: ::rotflol:: ::rotflol::

Thanks Bug!!! Now I'll have that picture in my Head all Day! :mrgreen:
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by cattaraugus57 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:52 pm

Whoa Junebug! ::facepalm:: :shock: :lol:

I agree though...There's no need for that here.
"whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government"

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by bighomer » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:53 am

YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by philco » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:43 am

::facepalm:: Thanks for your support Junebug. :roll:
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by junebug » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:09 am

SORRY YOU DIDN'T THINK IT WAS FUNNY PHIL...... ::facepalm::

I WAS JOKING, AND , I THINK IT WAS A NICE REMINDER OF SAID CUSS RULE AND ETC,ETC,ETC..... ::handshake:: ::nod:: ::nod:: ::tu:: ::tu::

I BETTER START SEPERATIN' MA KNIFE HOBBY AN MY FUNNY WRASSLIN' PIC COLLECTION ::facepalm:: :roll: ::dang:: ::tu:: .... CURSE THAT EVIL MR.BLISTER!!! ::censored::
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by orvet » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:26 am

bestgear wrote:Thanks for the reminder Phil but it begs the question, what else did we agree to when we registered that we need to be more attentive to?
Great question Tom!

Here is a portion of the AAPK User Agreement that deals mainly with posting behavior.

"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “All About Pocket Knives” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “All About Pocket Knives” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “All About Pocket Knives” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised."
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by basser5 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:46 pm

Thanks for all that you do Phil ::tu::

Junebug............Not so much ::sotb:: ::poke:: :lol:
My name is Tim and i'm a stagoholic.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by SteelMyHeart85420 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:06 pm

This thread needed a knife pic, so.....welcome
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20150616_220909.jpg

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by trutemper » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:10 pm

Thanks Dale, there`s certainly nothing wrong with reminding people that having courtesy, respect , and acting responsibly and with common sense not only reaps huge benefits in the long run but also sets a fine example of what we(adults) need to set for youngsters who may also belong to our group. These youngsters, after all, are the future of knife collecting just as we became the future collectors from our fathers and grandfathers. While I of course have heard my gramps and dad use a few terms that aren't presentable here......that is the point, a forum such as this, surely was never a place that either my dad or gramps would have ever spoken in foul language. Of course we all slip on rare occasions, after all we are only human, but don't you think it`s best to try to keep chins up, just let issues "roll off" and take the higher ground whenever we feel we may have been offended or have a different opinion? It`s called being "tempered" and seems highly appropriate.

Thanks again Dale,

Bob

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by tankman » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:23 pm

that pictue is so jacked up man,was funny but in all due seriousness we should obay the rules of the website.Were else can we go and talk about knifes.So many of these guys have been a great sorce of information,and have helped me out a lot.Thanks again to those that have helped me answer all my questions.I think they would forget more than Ill ever know about knifes.Thanks again!

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Rookie » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:14 pm

Here! Here! It's tough to find a clean corner of the internet, I appreciate the folks at AAPK and the welcoming atmosphere.
I collect Tuna Valley knives, and NKCA Youth knife prototypes.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by jacob » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:04 pm

Everything posted which may be of help concerning with the topics is really of great help not only to the principal party but also to the viewer who have the same situation.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by 1967redrider » Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:03 pm

I save all of my "choice" words for my commute to work. It's only 6 miles but there are 31 traffic lights and lots of people still asleep at the wheel. I even have a song, but I can't share it here. ::censored:: ::lightening::
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter

Onetimejohnny

Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Onetimejohnny » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:34 pm

Phil, why can't I get my membership account closed? I've requested that my "Want Ad" be deleted and my acct be closed everyday for a week now and not only hasn't anything happened but I don't even get the courtesy of a return email. Do I have to resort to a string of foul language with members at random to get thrown off your site. Perhaps if the administrators would provide a way for members to close their own account
then they wouldn't have to be bothered with it.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Rookie » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:56 pm

Phil is not the owner of the forum, he's a moderator. I'm sure they'll get to your requests/emails as quickly as they can. People here don't just sit around all day long waiting to pounce on emails from the forum, everyone has other lives to live. Sending an email every day is not helping anyone move faster.
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Onetimejohnny » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:04 pm

As per the Info posted, a Moderator has the ability to delete a post and if Phil would please be so kind to do so, I would appreciate it.
as for my request to terminate my membership, I will wait until those who hold the power have a break in their everyday life.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by jerryd6818 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:11 pm

1967redrider wrote:I save all of my "choice" words for my commute to work. It's only 6 miles but there are 31 traffic lights and lots of people still asleep at the wheel. I even have a song, but I can't share it here. ::censored:: ::lightening::
I have one too. It goes......

Green means go mr. stupid man ahead of me.
Green means go mr. idiot in front of me.
Get off your phone and move your little hinny.
If I miss this light I'm going to kill ya.

I use it for all kinds of infractions of my peace of mind. :mrgreen:
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
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This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by orvet » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:49 pm

Onetimejohnny wrote:As per the Info posted, a Moderator has the ability to delete a post and if Phil would please be so kind to do so, I would appreciate it.
as for my request to terminate my membership, I will wait until those who hold the power have a break in their everyday life.
Request granted account deactivated.
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by gsmith7158 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Onetimejohnny was an appropriate screen name. ::shrug::
------------------

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IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by 1967redrider » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:35 am

I guess it was my subliminal singing. ::uc::
Pocket, fixed, machete, axe, it's all good!

You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by gsmith7158 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:47 am

Red i didn't here the singing, i just think some people think their time is way more important than other people's
------------------

Greg

IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Captain O » Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:27 am

Sorry, Phil. I'll watch my language. (We can all do better than that).

My neighborhood is going downhill. A local gynecologist was discovered to have had a bottle of "Gee, Your Hair Smells Terrific!" in his examination room. :shock: ::facepalm:: ::uc::
This post is approved by Arf The Wonder Chicken. :wink:

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by blueheeler1959 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:08 pm

just was wonderin where do those fellas keep their pocket knives? ::hmm::

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by JoeyBoy » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Wish it were possible to meet some of you characters...between this and the "pistol porn" revolver crowd, it is some of the best entertainment I have ever enjoyed in the cyber world...then, I don't get out too much any more, either... ::smirk::

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by michaelpellerin » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:43 am

Let's turn this around: Do You Clean or not Clean Your Vintage Knife Finds?

I love finding vintage knives on ebay or yard sales, but they are usually gungky, and the blades have carbon spots.

Do you leave yours alone, or clean them? I can't stand the carbon spots!

I'm afraid to try and clean mine, for fear of ruining them, but I suspect they've been subjected to a heck of a lot more in the past.

I will use some WD-40 to ease the joints, but have no clue to clean the carbon spots off of the blades, and glue, how do you clean off glue?

Oh, and this is my first post. Hi AAPK Fam!

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by orvet » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:22 am

Hi Michael, ::welcome:: to AAPK!
I recommend a sonic cleaner. Three or four drops of Dawn dish washing soap and 4 or 5 minutes in the sonic cleaner and you will be surprised at how much gunk comes out of it.

WD-40 is great to remove water but its lubricating qualities are lacking, in my opinion. I use Quick Release Oil, it is the best knife oil I have ever used and I have used most of them.

For light surface rust most of it comes off easily with a #2 pencil. For deeper rust I use a rust eraser, an abrasive made in a rubber material. You basically user it like as eraser.


Like any experimentation it is best to start on old knives you know don't have great value.

Hope this helps. ::tu::
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by royal0014 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:36 am

um .... should not the cleaning of knives be posted elsewhere. .. ????
Actually I'm quite certain it is ........

This thread is a "sticky" and is in reference to language and use of civility
in our posts and topics on this forum. ....

It it meant as 'heads up' for the new persons who join (hint, hint) ......

Look before you leap, or post
::tu:: .
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how far off i sat and wondered
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by gsmith7158 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:20 pm

michaelpellerin wrote:Let's turn this around: Do You Clean or not Clean Your Vintage Knife Finds?

I love finding vintage knives on ebay or yard sales, but they are usually gungky, and the blades have carbon spots.

Do you leave yours alone, or clean them? I can't stand the carbon spots!

I'm afraid to try and clean mine, for fear of ruining them, but I suspect they've been subjected to a hell of a lot more in the past.

I will use some WD-40 to ease the joints, but have no clue to clean the carbon spots off of the blades, and glue, how do you clean off glue?

Oh, and this is my first post. Hi AAPK Fam!
Hey michaelpellerin You made a slight boo-boo here. This thread is intended as a sort of reprimand board so the moderators can give a warning to folks using foul or improper language on the forums. There are many threads in Knife Repair and Restoration that cover cleaning of knives. :D
------------------

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by FRJ » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:00 pm

My apologies for bungling my own post which I deleted for the most part. ::facepalm::
Joe

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by michaelpellerin » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:28 am

Sorry for posting in the wrong forum. I was just trying to bring some levity to the situation. Sometimes my horse sense is actually cow sense. ::dang::

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by espn77 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:12 pm

michaelpellerin wrote:I'm sorry for posting in the wrong section. I just wanted to lighten things up.

Sometimes my Horsesense, is actually Cowsensne!

IE: I'm an idiot.
I wouldn't worry to much about it. If that's the worst thing that happens today it will be a good day.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by jerryd6818 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:25 pm

While we're all apologizing, I apologize for what I did to Mary Ellen in third grade.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by gsmith7158 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:24 pm

jerryd6818 wrote:While we're all apologizing, I apologize for what I did to Mary Ellen in third grade.
I'd like to here the details on that episode but we're probably not in the correct thread for that!
------------------

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by jerryd6818 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:19 pm

It's not what you think ya old pervert. :mrgreen:

I just made that up to be humorus. The reality was not humorus. It was actually 5th grade (Spring of 1955) and I don't recall the girl's name. We were on our way home from school and standing in their garage. She was jumping up and down, laughing and making fun of me (about what, I don't recall). I slugged her in the stomach. That was the only time I ever laid a hand on a female in a violent manner. That was also the last time she made fun of me.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by gsmith7158 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:45 pm

Ah the school yard memories! They were quite awkward at times. ::smirk::
------------------

Greg

IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Mossdancer » Thu May 24, 2018 2:37 pm

Jerry;
This being 7 months late still holds true. I would bet everyones good recess memories were looking down and the bad ones looking up.
moss
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by TwoFlowersLuggage » Thu May 24, 2018 3:30 pm

In the 3rd grade, I tried to stay as far away from the girls as I could. By the 8th grade, I was trying to get as close to the girls as I could...
"The Luggage had a straightforward way of dealing with things between it and its intended destination: it ignored them." -Terry Pratchett

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by whitebuffalo58 » Thu May 24, 2018 4:56 pm

I've always told my sons and grandsons, "chasing girls isn't the problem, catching one is when the real trouble starts". ::nod::


WB :D

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Colonel26 » Thu May 24, 2018 6:17 pm

whitebuffalo58 wrote:I've always told my sons and grandsons, "chasing girls isn't the problem, catching one is when the real trouble starts". ::nod::


WB :D

Brahahahahaha! So true!
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by celluloidheros » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:19 am

No Swearing, No Drinking, No Smoking.... Gosh Darn it, I left my cigarettes at the bar.
Thanks, DC

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by singin46 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:39 pm

Well said Phil and while I've been off of here for a while, glad to see the site is still remaining the family site it has always been! Thanks to all the moderators for all the many hours of work you put in!!! ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::
Love all Jacks

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by jerryd6818 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:40 pm

Thanks to all the AAPK members for being such a decent bunch of people. ::tu::
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by kingknight » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:23 am

Gentalmen keep it clean. Your aim will help. Stand closer; it's shorter than you think!
"Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
H L Mencken

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Phil2107 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:30 pm

Lol! I'm new to the forum and new to collecting vintage pocket knives. One of the many reasons I joined was to learn and get tips about cleaning and restoring knives. Needless to say...I thought this post was about an entirely different subject! :lol:

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by doglegg » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:31 pm

Phil2107 wrote:Lol! I'm new to the forum and new to collecting vintage pocket knives. One of the many reasons I joined was to learn and get tips about cleaning and restoring knives. Needless to say...I thought this post was about an entirely different subject! :lol:
Phil I think it caught us all when we first started. :lol: ::tounge:: ::nod::
And by the way Welcome.

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Phil2107 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:39 pm

doglegg wrote:
Phil2107 wrote:Lol! I'm new to the
Phil I think it caught us all when we first started. :lol: ::tounge:: ::nod::
And by the way Welcome.
Thanks!

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Onearmbladejunkie » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:45 pm

I want to cuss Great Eastern Cutlery. I want to cuss GEC for teasing their customers. I want TO CUSS GEC for putting one badge to four tubes ! Their best knives are produced in super low numbers to create crazy inflated prices. Harley Davidson did the same thing since 1982. Now Harley Davidson is in big trouble and Indian moto-sickles is the way to go with better tested quality moto-sickles. I want to cuss GEC for making too many two bladed knives , when they know most customers want single blades for easy opening. I want to cuss GEC for all those Tidioute knives with those stupid hot dog shields. I want to cuss GEC for not making all their knives fancy like the Northfield and the Northwoods knives, that they make for "Knives Ship For Free". I own 8 GEC knives , with many pre-orders being made right now. I signed up for #99s & #85s knives on Collector Knives. I was never notified. I have one arm and those knives would of been perfect for me. Now an #85 Tiger Maple wood easy open end sold for $200 on EBAY. I cuss GEC good on that one. I also bought 11 CASEXX knives and I joined the CASEXX Club. That will show them ! I cuss Great Eastern Cutlery for making too many brown knives and yellow knives that are 90% brown.
36618919_2113511145585231_1040317757142335488_n.jpg

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Onearmbladejunkie » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:49 pm

BADGES ! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGES !
9980000543.jpg
9980000543.jpg (26.53 KiB) Viewed 141613 times

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FRJ
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by FRJ » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:56 pm

Oh, that darn GEC and their reprehensible behavior. Trying to make money like that. Shame, shame!

I've got an idea, Onearmbladejunkie, consider buying antique pocket knives. It's much less stressful. ::nod::
Joe

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wlf
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by wlf » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:25 pm

The reason GEC is not a manufacturing facility like Case and unable to produce the numbers necessary to meet demand, is the hands on old approach to quality.
The company produces great old patterns, they just can’t produce enough to suit demand. The dealers are responsible for sales, not GEC.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

May the Father and Son bless
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Ultrastooge
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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Ultrastooge » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:36 am

junebug wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:18 pm
I THINK WE SHOULD WRASSLE OVER THE RIGHT TA CUSS. ::shrug::
Ahh $*#€t.... I just had dinner. Thanks a lot for the not so easily erasable visual. What kind of a person does that!?















(*** NOTE : THIS IS A JOKE & NO SINGLETS WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS PHOTO ::super_happy:: )

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by jerryd6818 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:03 am

Onearmbladejunkie wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:45 pm
I want to cuss Great Eastern Cutlery. I want to cuss GEC for teasing their customers. I want TO CUSS GEC for putting one badge to four tubes ! Their best knives are produced in super low numbers to create crazy inflated prices. Harley Davidson did the same thing since 1982. Now Harley Davidson is in big trouble and Indian moto-sickles is the way to go with better tested quality moto-sickles. I want to cuss GEC for making too many two bladed knives , when they know most customers want single blades for easy opening. I want to cuss GEC for all those Tidioute knives with those stupid hot dog shields. I want to cuss GEC for not making all their knives fancy like the Northfield and the Northwoods knives, that they make for "Knives Ship For Free". I own 8 GEC knives , with many pre-orders being made right now. I signed up for #99s & #85s knives on Collector Knives. I was never notified. I have one arm and those knives would of been perfect for me. Now an #85 Tiger Maple wood easy open end sold for $200 on EBAY. I cuss GEC good on that one. I also bought 11 CASEXX knives and I joined the CASEXX Club. That will show them ! I cuss Great Eastern Cutlery for making too many brown knives and yellow knives that are 90% brown. 36618919_2113511145585231_1040317757142335488_n.jpg
All reasons I want to applaud Great Eastern Cutlery. Different strokes for different folks.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by Mossdancer » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:46 pm

My thanks to all of the AAPKers.. Been some time since my last post, might mention went thru a bad spell. Met with the fellow with a hood and a scythe on his shoulder and booted him on the ankle. Not my time yet. Knives are good, knives are great but always remember that GOD IS SUPREME
MOSS
I STAND FOR OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by FRJ » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:05 pm

How fortunate for us that you are still participating here. An honorable member that knows his knives.

And knows that "GOD IS SUPREME".
Joe

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Re: Let's keep it clean

Post by jerryd6818 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:08 pm

Mossdancer wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:46 pm
My thanks to all of the AAPKers.. Been some time since my last post, might mention went thru a bad spell. Met with the fellow with a hood and a scythe on his shoulder and booted him on the ankle. Not my time yet. Knives are good, knives are great but always remember that GOD IS SUPREME
MOSS
WB, it's good to see your smiling face and it's great to hear that you met the Reaper head on and beat him at his own game. Congratulations and welcome back.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012

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