Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Until know, this thread has focused on Small Russell Barlows, but recently some interesting Daddy barrows showed up.. So Im just bringing some of the pictures here, in case anyone is interested.
Lockback Fish knife
seems to have a straight Russell tang stamp that was in use pre 1933
here is another one with the same straight Russell tang stamp
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... hp/1101928
the one in this thread has the curved Russell tang stamp, in use from 1933-1941:
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... =2&t=15800
All three appear to be genuine lockback daddy barlows, and none of them have the fish scaler pattern on the spine
I hope someone with more experience, and possibly catalog pics, can help us fine tune what years those non Fish Scaler Lockbacks were offered.
see here for a pristine Fishscaler Lockback Stag Russell Daddy Barlow belonging to Tony Bose
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/458681
[QUOTE=KnifeHead;4416545]It is 5" long, N/S bolsters, brass liners, amazing thick stag.
[/QUOTE]
Tony's knife has a tang stamp that worries me, it has Diamonds on the tang stamp:
whereas the Fish knife just above his, has the tang stamp I consider genuine pre 1941:
I have only seen diamonds on the 1968 commemorative
I hope someone will add to our knowledge about the use of diamonds on a Russel tang
one more fish knife
Lockback Fish knife
seems to have a straight Russell tang stamp that was in use pre 1933
here is another one with the same straight Russell tang stamp
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... hp/1101928
the one in this thread has the curved Russell tang stamp, in use from 1933-1941:
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... =2&t=15800
All three appear to be genuine lockback daddy barlows, and none of them have the fish scaler pattern on the spine
I hope someone with more experience, and possibly catalog pics, can help us fine tune what years those non Fish Scaler Lockbacks were offered.
see here for a pristine Fishscaler Lockback Stag Russell Daddy Barlow belonging to Tony Bose
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/458681
[QUOTE=KnifeHead;4416545]It is 5" long, N/S bolsters, brass liners, amazing thick stag.
[/QUOTE]
Tony's knife has a tang stamp that worries me, it has Diamonds on the tang stamp:
whereas the Fish knife just above his, has the tang stamp I consider genuine pre 1941:
I have only seen diamonds on the 1968 commemorative
I hope someone will add to our knowledge about the use of diamonds on a Russel tang
one more fish knife
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
a bit more about tang stamps and blade pin location on Small Russell Barlows
I want to draw attention to the location of the blade pivot pin near the bolster arrow head. And also notice the tang stamp arrow starts under the S
here is a Genuine one:
Below is a Not original Russell, the one posted above by 0078
note the blade pivot is not near the arrow head on the bolster, and the tang arrow starts under the U
Another difference to focus on, is the genuine curved stamp has a more open arc, such that the tang stamp R and the U of U.S.A are farther apart that on the german stamp. The german stamp has a tighter arc, bringing the R and the U close together
I want to draw attention to the location of the blade pivot pin near the bolster arrow head. And also notice the tang stamp arrow starts under the S
here is a Genuine one:
Below is a Not original Russell, the one posted above by 0078
note the blade pivot is not near the arrow head on the bolster, and the tang arrow starts under the U
Another difference to focus on, is the genuine curved stamp has a more open arc, such that the tang stamp R and the U of U.S.A are farther apart that on the german stamp. The german stamp has a tighter arc, bringing the R and the U close together
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Jon a couple. A 3 3/8" straight line stamp. The other a Daddy E-Z opener
curved stamp/ diamonds on each side R/ U.S.A. The Daddy came to me
with the pins all rusted out, knife falling apart. I had it pinned. The
pictures should enlarge, hope you will be able to see stamps. I have
followed this thread will re-read it and try to learn. If you would like
you can tell me what I have.
Thanks
Harold
curved stamp/ diamonds on each side R/ U.S.A. The Daddy came to me
with the pins all rusted out, knife falling apart. I had it pinned. The
pictures should enlarge, hope you will be able to see stamps. I have
followed this thread will re-read it and try to learn. If you would like
you can tell me what I have.
Thanks
Harold
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Thanks for sharing your photos Harold. Im no expert, ask Bernard Levine for a pro opinion also..stockman wrote:Jon a couple. A 3 3/8" straight line stamp. The other a Daddy E-Z opener
curved stamp/ diamonds on each side R/ U.S.A. The Daddy came to me
with the pins all rusted out, knife falling apart. I had it pinned.
To me, the small barlow looks like it has an unusual blade, the nail nick is very close to the tip, and to the spine, and the blade is very full, not worn, for such an old knife. My guess is its a genuine pre 1933 handle, possible blade change, but not sure, the straight stamp looks right..
here are a couple more small Barlow, straight stamp, see what you think of the nail nick position, similar to yours, or different?
I know very very little about Daddy Russells, I would have said yours is genuine, but would ask for corroboration that the diamonds on the tang are pre WW2. I heard that during the 50's, when Russell-Harrington did repairs that involved reblading, that the tangs were marked with diamonds. Your blade pivot pin shows it has been changed, but since you said you had the scales repinned, Im guessing the pivot was pulled for that operation, so I have no way to support any hunch your blade was marked with diamonds in the 50's.
Since both your and Tony's Daddy's have Diamonds, we need to get confirmation if those marks were original to pre WW2. I have posted asking that question in Bernards forum, you may want to check or post there also.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... hp/1101928
I dont know if he will reply. You can also contact him privately for his evaluation.
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Jon I know the blade was re-pinned on the daddy Barlow and the handles also, all
else was as found. The small one I would guess has had a blade welded on to the
original tang. It looks odd. This would be the reason.
Harold
else was as found. The small one I would guess has had a blade welded on to the
original tang. It looks odd. This would be the reason.
Harold
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Here are some Long Pull Russell Small Barlows that I do not believe are original. Notice how similar the pull is to the Schrades.
What do you think, is it possible Schrade made some contract Russell Barlows with Long Pulls? Notice also the position of the middle pin on the handle, some are not centered the way Russell and Schrade do, they might be Camillus made, if he pin is off center.. thoughts invited.
A quick note on my use of other people photos. I often collect pictures from the internet to illustrate a point. I dont mean to offend anyone whose photo I use without attribution. If it bothers you, please let me know and I will delete it, or, please do take credit if you see an image of yours you want recognition for. Thanks for posting photos on the net for all of us to use and learn from.
What do you think, is it possible Schrade made some contract Russell Barlows with Long Pulls? Notice also the position of the middle pin on the handle, some are not centered the way Russell and Schrade do, they might be Camillus made, if he pin is off center.. thoughts invited.
A quick note on my use of other people photos. I often collect pictures from the internet to illustrate a point. I dont mean to offend anyone whose photo I use without attribution. If it bothers you, please let me know and I will delete it, or, please do take credit if you see an image of yours you want recognition for. Thanks for posting photos on the net for all of us to use and learn from.
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Ok, because of this thread, I went out on a limb and went to eBay and purchased what I think is a Schrade 206 Barlow. I have $25.00 into it and should be receiving it this week. What do you guys think?
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
you got a good deal, it is definitely a 206, that was also used for the Russell ReplicaMountainMan wrote:what I think is a Schrade 206 Barlow. ... What do you guys think?
but, no fair blaming me for enabling your knife purchases LOL!
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Here is a knife stamped Boker Solingen Germany with a Russell Green River Works blade etch and a Bolster with an R with an Arrow through it. I believe it is one of the unauthorized reproductions from 1971.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zhMo ... 524_57.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zhMo ... 524_57.JPG
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Here's a Kentucky special. See how many things you can spot. The bolster might be real, maybe.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Russell ... 27dbc4d27a
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Russell ... 27dbc4d27a
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
hmmm, the above link is wrong image, cant find the one Im looking for at the moment, but this one will illustrate a boker barlow, bottom knife, and a Boker made Russel, top knifejon_slider wrote:Here is a knife stamped Boker Solingen Germany with a Russell Green River Works blade etch and a Bolster with an R with an Arrow through it. I believe it is one of the unauthorized reproductions from 1971.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zhMo ... 524_57.JPG
http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae22 ... f5a22d.jpg
Thanks for the challenge quizDragunski wrote:Here's a Kentucky special. See how many things you can spot. The bolster might be real, maybe.
The diamonds on the tang stamp look like the blade came from one of the 1998 authorized commemorative sets made by colonial shown on page 3 of this same thread.
here is the picture of the set
http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae22 ... 1b7eaf.jpg
my guess is, the knife dragunski posted is a genuine 1933-1941 russell handle with a blade swap to a 1998 replica. The replica bolster arrow head goes closer to the pivot end of the knife. The bolster pictured by dragunski is a correct genuine Russel bolster, imo. I would say the handle is also genuine from that period.
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Jon ,you're oozing information!!
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Thanks for your kind words. I have too much time on my hands, a lot of it spent googlingwlf wrote:Jon ,you're oozing information!!
I love the way the net lets us use images to save me words.
Happy Holidays!
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Does this 18 inch "butcher" knife have anything to do with these Russell knives and is it worth anything?
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
google:JACKNIFEBEN wrote:Does this 18 inch "butcher" knife have anything to do with these Russell knives and is it worth anything?
"Dexter Russell 12" Blade Cimeter Steak Knife Straight Dark Wood Handle"
available new for $45, made by the current USA Dexter-Russell company.
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
I am surprised that you think those black saw-cut handle slabs are original. They look very fresh to me, compared to the bolster. They don't look like they fit quite right, either. Disregarding the stamp for a moment, the blade also seems the wrong shape, a little too fat and with that curved clip on top. It also has very strange deep serrations that don't look like a "glaze" finish at all. I will take your word that it's a Colonial blade, but it seems wrong even not looking at the stamp.jon_slider wrote:hmmm, the above link is wrong image, cant find the one Im looking for at the moment, but this one will illustrate a boker barlow, bottom knife, and a Boker made Russel, top knifejon_slider wrote:Here is a knife stamped Boker Solingen Germany with a Russell Green River Works blade etch and a Bolster with an R with an Arrow through it. I believe it is one of the unauthorized reproductions from 1971.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zhMo ... 524_57.JPG
http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae22 ... f5a22d.jpg
Thanks for the challenge quizDragunski wrote:Here's a Kentucky special. See how many things you can spot. The bolster might be real, maybe.
The diamonds on the tang stamp look like the blade came from one of the 1998 authorized commemorative sets made by colonial shown on page 3 of this same thread.
here is the picture of the set
http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae22 ... 1b7eaf.jpg
my guess is, the knife dragunski posted is a genuine 1933-1941 russell handle with a blade swap to a 1998 replica. The replica bolster arrow head goes closer to the pivot end of the knife. The bolster pictured by dragunski is a correct genuine Russel bolster, imo. I would say the handle is also genuine from that period.
Since it's hard to see the inside of the frame, the liners, etc, we can't really judge it very well. The bolster looks original, I agree, but to me, the slabs don't.
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Good feedback
I agree the blade is too wide and the mill marks are weird.
I also have some doubts about the slabs but the color did exist and the way they are thicker than the bolster is Russellish. It looks like the color was ground off the edges during the rebuild cleanup.
There is also a chance the blade was one of the 1950's Russell Dexter repairs.
Especially because the bolster is original pre ww2. The 1968 commemorative bolster is different. See page 3
Russell Dexter also provided the blades on the 1968 commemorative pairs. So the diamonds could be Dexter either way, but not pre ww2
Mostly I'm guessing the slabs and handle are original because that's a cheaper fix, to just replace a blade. But I'm only guessing.
I agree the blade is too wide and the mill marks are weird.
I also have some doubts about the slabs but the color did exist and the way they are thicker than the bolster is Russellish. It looks like the color was ground off the edges during the rebuild cleanup.
There is also a chance the blade was one of the 1950's Russell Dexter repairs.
Especially because the bolster is original pre ww2. The 1968 commemorative bolster is different. See page 3
Russell Dexter also provided the blades on the 1968 commemorative pairs. So the diamonds could be Dexter either way, but not pre ww2
Mostly I'm guessing the slabs and handle are original because that's a cheaper fix, to just replace a blade. But I'm only guessing.
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
Most are in bad condition, some have unmarked blades. I only wish I had visited sooner because I was told someone had bought the good ones a week earlier.
Let me know if you need any individual pictures.
Jack
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Re: Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow
congratulations on your great haul!
I would be curious to see pictures of the Russells sorted into the following categories
1. Straight line tang stamps
2a. Curved tang stamps with the middle handle pin centered (original)
2b. Curved tang stamps with the middle handle pin closer to the bolster than center (Camillus)
3. Any Russell with a long pull blade nick
about curved tang stamps, I distinguish 3 variants
1. The arrow in the R under the curved Russell lines up with the beginning of the arrow under the first S (wide arch Russell tang stamp) (original)
2. The arrow in the R under the curved Russell lines up with the beginning of the arrow under the U (narrow arch Russell tang stamp) (not original)
3. Any tang stamp with diamonds on both sides of the R under the curved Russell tang stamp (post ww2)
about bolsters
1. Any bolster showing the pivot pin touching the side of the Arrow point on the bolster is original
2. Any bolster showing the pivot pin forward of the arrow head is not original.
The easiest way to shoot photos of these features is to open the primary blade to the half stop and photograph the mark side showing the whole knife.
group images of the handles with blades closed are also informative, grouped by those with the middle pin in center, and those with the middle pin closer to the bolster end.
If the middle pin is not centered, the knife is not original, but Camillus made a number of good ones under contract, before WW1, with the middle pin closer to the bolster.
thanks!
I would be curious to see pictures of the Russells sorted into the following categories
1. Straight line tang stamps
2a. Curved tang stamps with the middle handle pin centered (original)
2b. Curved tang stamps with the middle handle pin closer to the bolster than center (Camillus)
3. Any Russell with a long pull blade nick
about curved tang stamps, I distinguish 3 variants
1. The arrow in the R under the curved Russell lines up with the beginning of the arrow under the first S (wide arch Russell tang stamp) (original)
2. The arrow in the R under the curved Russell lines up with the beginning of the arrow under the U (narrow arch Russell tang stamp) (not original)
3. Any tang stamp with diamonds on both sides of the R under the curved Russell tang stamp (post ww2)
about bolsters
1. Any bolster showing the pivot pin touching the side of the Arrow point on the bolster is original
2. Any bolster showing the pivot pin forward of the arrow head is not original.
The easiest way to shoot photos of these features is to open the primary blade to the half stop and photograph the mark side showing the whole knife.
group images of the handles with blades closed are also informative, grouped by those with the middle pin in center, and those with the middle pin closer to the bolster end.
If the middle pin is not centered, the knife is not original, but Camillus made a number of good ones under contract, before WW1, with the middle pin closer to the bolster.
thanks!
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