My Great Easterns

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:32 pm

I spoke with Bill Howard breifly and will be sending the 2 knives back with everything that I wrote as well as a link to this post. It's only fair to see what the knife collecting community is saying. What better way to get some quick feedback, especially for a first release?

He did say that there is no such thing as a perfect knife and I agree. He also said that if a customer has a concern, it's usually genuine and I feel his concern was genuine. When he inspects the knives I think he will be in agreement with me as far as the finish on the blades; I don't believe anyone would be happy with these.

I do not believe the knives that I recieved represent the standard quality of Great Eastern Cutlery, but rather an anomaly, 1 guy getting worst case in fit and finish on 2 knives.

It's a good start, I will of course keep everyone posted.

edgy46 · Post by **edgy46** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:48 pm

The marks in the bolsters could be from buffing with a soft rag wheel after the bolsters and scales were assembled,possibly after the knife was finished.the soft wheel would follow the grooves in the bone, and eat away the crisp corners of the bolsters.Just my opinion

Rusty1 · Post by **Rusty1** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:13 pm

I know we have heard about the problems associated with first offerings from GEC, I understand also that GEC need to know of problematic issues with what they are producing, and the first runs should pobably be error free, has anyone had the feeling though, that because these knives are the first offerings from a new company they are wanted as collectors pieces regardless of flaws. Now if only I could get my hands on a Amber Horse Cut No 23 cannot find one anywhere, help if you can.
Thanks

Rusty1

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:45 pm

hey rusty, you're probably right. they will be collectable, anyway. but if these issues are not addressed now, there might not be a later for the company. they need our support, we need quality knives.

edgy, if it was a soft wheel, the handle material will go long before the bolsters. these notches are not softened like polishing does to metal.

Mint Set Man · Post by **Mint Set Man** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:05 am

I am sure these are just " opening night jitters " and things will get much better as time goes on.

I will exchange any GEC knife for anybody reggardless of where it was purchased ...if I had inventory. These knives have sold out extremely fast. I think the 2 knives in question were the exception . Most all of ours were very well done and have had no complaints other than one with a little rough tang rubbing on spring.

I think we should be thankful someone has the balls to go out on a limb and start a new cutlery in these times.

BTW, did I miss something on the 440ss thing ?? How do you tell it was'nt 440C ???

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:24 am

Mint Set Man wrote:I am sure these are just " opening night jitters " and things will get much better as time goes on.

I agree and also feel that the knives I recieved do not represent the average quality, but rather, I just got unlucky. BTW, I did order gec73chestnut from you, talk to you tomorrow.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:28 am

thanks for the reply bill. you were most helpful when i spoke to you about the quality issue. your service was beyond reproach. i too believe these probs will be addressed and look forward to another american owned and run knife company. those new ones look nice.

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:17 am

edgy46 wrote:The marks in the bolsters could be from buffing with a soft rag wheel after the bolsters and scales were assembled,possibly after the knife was finished.the soft wheel would follow the grooves in the bone, and eat away the crisp corners of the bolsters.Just my opinion

Exactly correct.

That is a well known phenomenon that was documented a long time ago in an article in the Case Collectors Club magazine. The marks on the bolsters are called "sucking out marks".

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:23 am

hey knifaholic, can you elaorate? i'm all ears. i've never heard the term and , bummer, did'nt read the article. this phenom. is an error, correct?

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 am

jonet143 wrote:hey knifaholic, can you elaorate? i'm all ears. i've never heard the term and , bummer, did'nt read the article. this phenom. is an error, correct?

Well, it is just as Edgy wrote. Handle slabs are ALWAYS jigged and dyed before being pinned to the liners. If the jig trails extend to the bolsters after the rough hafting process, then during the final buffing with soft wheels the spinning cloth wheel edge gets "funneled" through the jig trail and wears away a bit at the bolster at the end of the jig trail. NOT AN ERROR at all...but a sign of a properly hafted hand made knife. I see it on some of the new Queen knives that I buy. It is normally VERY subtle and not something that one would notice without close exmaination.

Whn I first noticed this on Case pocketknives in the 70's, I mistakenly assumed that the handles were jigged post-installation but I quickly realized that that could not be a workable method and came upon the other explanation after thinking about it.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:18 am

thanks for the reply knifeaholic. i have seen it on other knives as well. usually very subtle. just looked at some of my shatts and there are some subtle indentations at jigging points on the bolsters. never considered a problem. but they're not divots. i'm not wore out yet, i ordered a chestnut 73 and can't wait for the postal person. i know it's just a crapshoot when you can't hold em before ya buy but.........MY NAME IS JOHNNIE AND I'M A KNIFEAHOLIC TOO.

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:45 am

I'm glad we're getting this hafted ...er hashed out I mean. Thanks to knifeaholic for the explanation on the "sucking out marks".

While not classified as an error, I must say that I would prefer a knife with less pronounced marks ...or even better, a knife with no marks at all to one with deep marks.

Just like everyone else who has looked close, I have seen these marks on Case, Queen, and other manufacturer's knives. Perhaps this phenomenon warrants a look at the design process. Why not create handle scales with jigging that tapers off and stops short of the bolsters? Just like GEC did with the chestnut bone example shown by Mint Set Man.

I would much prefer that finish over the examples seen on Hukk's knives. (not trying to knock your knives Hukk

). Obviously, it would not be practical to expect every jigging design to stop just right, but I think it would be possible to keep the jigging more shallow toward the bolsters to avoid deep sucking out marks such as those seen on Hukk's specimens. (again... sorry Hukk

).

I am really pulling for this company to succeed and thrive. I hope everyone sees these posts as constructive critisism and not a blatant attempt to bash GEC. I feel confident that we all want quality US manufactured knives and GEC is one of our greatest hopes.

Bryan

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:52 am

correctomundo bryan

oldknifeman · Post by **oldknifeman** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:39 pm

These two guys from Great Eastern told every one 2 years ago, that they were starting a new factory. They said they were going to make knives the old way. So far every thing that I have seen has been excellent. I own many mint Green bone Case tested, Bullet Remington's. The old company's used to pride them selfs on giving you jigged bone, that went all the way to the bolsters. By doing this, when the bolsters was buffed you get what us old timers call jig hafts. I will not even buy a old knife that does not have this, if it is not there the bone has been changed. All your other company's today dress the bone down at both ends till it is smooth, so they don't have to work at it so hard. That is the reason there is no jig hafting marks on there bolsters.They have made thses knives with 1/2 stops, which you never see any more. Also they are finishing there blades with a crocus finish. Laying a #23 GEC up next to a mint bullet Remington will blow your mind on how close they are. As I said I love my GEC knives & will be buying many more that go along with my collection. All I can say about the nick picking I have read. That if you want a CUSTOM knife at factory prices. You are hurting.

justold52 · Post by **justold52** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:20 pm

Bryan; "I'm glad we're getting this hafted ...er hashed out I mean. Thanks to knifeaholic for the explanation on the "sucking out marks".

Yes I too note them. But now I will be getting two S&M's re-handle-ed and thinking

..Will this be a problem to have the small dents show on different scales that will not match those dents?

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:31 pm

oldknifeman wrote:These two guys from Great Eastern told every one 2 years ago, that they were starting a new factory. They said they were going to make knives the old way. So far every thing that I have seen has been excellent. I own many mint Green bone Case tested, Bullet Remington's. The old company's used to pride them selfs on giving you jigged bone, that went all the way to the bolsters. By doing this, when the bolsters was buffed you get what us old timers call jig hafts. I will not even buy a old knife that does not have this, if it is not there the bone has been changed. All your other company's today dress the bone down at both ends till it is smooth, so they don't have to work at it so hard. That is the reason there is no jig hafting marks on there bolsters.They have made thses knives with 1/2 stops, which you never see any more. Also they are finishing there blades with a crocus finish. Laying a #23 GEC up next to a mint bullet Remington will blow your mind on how close they are. As I said I love my GEC knives & will be buying many more that go along with my collection. All I can say about the nick picking I have read. That if you want a CUSTOM knife at factory prices. You are hurting.

Thank you all for responding as I didn't know how they made them the old way, I now understand. They are very well constucted, no denying that. I applaud these gentlemen for openining a knife factory in these times.
I now would like to open the spey blade on the Horse cut without severe grinding, that will not go away with time. I would also like that clip blade replaced, if you can run your nail down the blade and feel the ridges, there is no finish on that particular one, the other blade is just fine as far as finish goes.

I have purchased more and I fully believe that these 2 knives were an anomaly, that they represent the worst case as far as quality goes with the BLADES.

If I want a custom knife, I will make my own. I can make it exactly how I want so I do not expect that at all from GEC or anyone else.

I will be speaking to Bill Howard next week hopefully.
What do I want, I can live with the red diamond jig except the spey blade has no finish, not when you can feel the ridges along the blade, on the front side.
On the Horsecut, the clip blade also has this problem and the spey blade can not be opened without severe grinding, maybe the wrong shim was used, the grinding will NOT work itself out.

Once again, these blades on the knives (well 2 of them) are not represenative of the standard GEC quality, even the seller agrees. These are worst case blades as far as quality goes, that I believe.

Do I want these back, you bet.
Will I buy more, yes, I've done that.

I do thank you on the lesson about jig hafts, that is new to me and I would not have learned that if it were not for this post. That is why we have these forums, so someone with knowledge will come along and enlighten us. For that I and I'm sure many others are grateful.

Nit picking, OK some, BUT, if the question was never asked we would not have gained this information which you just shared with us. So, I thank you for that.

BY THE WAY, welcome to this forum and please come back. The sharing of knowledge is what we do. Thank you for that knowledge and post, it is helpful.

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:16 am

I just received a few 73 models with Herringbone cut scales in walnut color with 1095 steel blades. Overall, I am well pleased with these. The blade finish is much better than the first two knives I examined. The Jigged bone looks great to my eyes. The shield is a little proud. It sticks up a bit, but if that baby is pinned, I'll take it for a ride over a glued shield any day. Walk and talk is very good. I'll be looking out for more. Hopefully I'll be able to give another good report. Pictures are attached.

singin46 · Post by **singin46** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:25 am

You're right.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:58 pm

Those look to be very nicely done, glad I have one of each on order

I will say once again, that the the knives at the start of this thread in no way represent the quality, fit and finsh of other knives I've seen from GEC. They are rather an aberration than a standard that represents GEC quality.

sunburst · Post by **sunburst** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:43 pm

Now you did it Bryan....

I have to go buy one now...

..The check is in the mail...

Sunburst

PA Knives · Post by **PA Knives** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:21 am

Folks,

I have held back on my comments becuase of my love and passion for Tidioute related knives. I recieve a FINE example and wanted to show you my latest photo of it. A gorgeous bone Tidioute Cutlery made by Great Eastern. What a super knife. I have absolutely no problems with this knife at all and I am truly proud to have it for my collection. Bill Howard is to be congratulated for doing not only the knife in a great fashsion but no one has spoken of the little extras that make it even better. THe super packaging the onion skin wrap, the old styling and I can go on and on. Thank you Bill and Ken. I for one appreciate what you have done and have no problem recommending you to others, Those that aren't quite happy yet, you have nothing to worry about. These fine people will solve any problem you may have. I look to these people to be around for a very long time.

(welcome Back Tidioute Cutlery Knives) I have missed you

And you guys know that I am not a new knife person at all. My mind has changed on this one.

GECTECHMAN · Post by **GECTECHMAN** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:31 am

First I must say that my coments are just that, My coments and MY thoughts. I am not speaking for GEC.

Knifemaking is a craft.
A craft needs to be mastered and then you are a master craftsman.
One master Craftsman does not make many knives though.
I saw a Loveless knife sell on E-Bay for $4150
Consider this please.
GEC has trainees who are not yet master craftsman.
Any new company is going to have a lot of new inexperienced employees.
The goal has always been and will always be to produce a top quality product and believe me every effort is made to provide this quality to its customers, and every effort is provided to correct any deficiencies found.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:08 am

great knife pa. and thanks getechman, i appreciate your comments. i understand there is in a learning curve with a new company, new knives, new facility and all the other obstacles. and i have bought four great easterns so far. however, in MY opinion, quality control should not have been left to apprentices.

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:11 am

pa knives wrote:Folks,

I have held back on my comments becuase of my love and passion for Tidioute related knives. I recieve a FINE example and wanted to show you my latest photo of it. A gorgeous bone Tidioute Cutlery made by Great Eastern. What a super knife. I have absolutely no problems with this knife at all and I am truly proud to have it for my collection. Bill Howard is to be congratulated for doing not only the knife in a great fashsion but no one has spoken of the little extras that make it even better. THe super packaging the onion skin wrap, the old styling and I can go on and on. Thank you Bill and Ken. I for one appreciate what you have done and have no problem recommending you to others, Those that aren't quite happy yet, you have nothing to worry about. These fine people will solve any problem you may have. I look to these people to be around for a very long time.

(welcome Back Tidioute Cutlery Knives) I have missed you

And you guys know that I am not a new knife person at all. My mind has changed on this one.

PA, you sure that shield doesn't say "tiedout"?

Just kiddin' really great looking knives.

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:58 am

gectechman-
It's nice to hear a voice of the company even if its not official, I think that we are in full support of GE here & wish you the best. Its understandable that there is a learning curve to the trade, but as Johnnie said quality control should be of the utmost importance for any new company. Keep the quality consistent & hopefully there will be many more good reviews on their way.

Nick

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