My Great Easterns

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:56 pm

I took a few pictures of what I regard as defects in the 2 knives as far as fit and finsh go.
Let me start off by saying that these are big solid trappers that feel great in my hand. They are very nicely designed if it were not for these flaws, they would be a joy to own. I will be contacting Great Eastern about repairs on both.

The clip blade on the Amberbone Horse cut should have been thrown out, that should never been allowed to be installed. I forgot to take a picture of it the spey blade of the Red Diamondback Bone knife also has the grind/mill lines that I can feel with a fingernail, should have been tossed also. The other 2 blades are smooth, both sides, I assume this is the way it's supposed to be, I'm running at 50%.

Those are big dents in the bolster that line up with the jigging, they do detract from the knife, at least the big ones. The small one's are no big deal.

The spey blade on the Red Diamondback Bone knife grinds badly when opening or closing, it will never work itself out. Like they did not shim it correctly when the knife was put together.

The jigging of the Red Diamondback Bone knife appears incomplete, maybe it's supposed to look that way.

Quality Control is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Please click on the photo's for detail.

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:10 pm

...ouch!

I'd say you've made some valid points. There is a term for when the jigging passes into the bolsters, it escapes me right now, sorry

, but it isn't desireable to me, that's for sure.
Hopefully things will turn out for the better for you and others looking for satisfaction, and it is just a hurried blip for Great Eastern.

Bill

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:48 am

i know they are machine jigged but i did'nt know it was done after assembly. what about the pins? like i said, i have case, s&ms, etc with some indentions on the bolster that line up with the jigging and assumed it was done polishing the handles. your's are deeper than mine. when i talked to bill howard, he assured me all problems would be fixed. at a 50% return ratio they'll be extra busy.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:01 am

Ouch, 1 clip and 1 spey blade need to be replaced, that's not something you can buff out either. Check out picture 006, that clip blade in the back is not very good either. Has "orange peel", something you see on D2 occassionally when someone first starts working with it.

EDIT:

Oops, my mistake after viewing the knife there is no orange peel. This is what it looks like but you can see this ONLY because the picture is blown up. Basically orange peel has to do with the grain size after to high of an annealing temperature, normalizing. etc.

Sorry, My ERROR!

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:08 am

I have read everyone's evaluations on these G.E.'s & I have a question. For those of you who have them; would you buy another one say next week if they came out with a 3rd configuration? Would you perhaps wait a while to see if quality control tightens up?

I have a birthday coming up & mentioned that I might like one of these knives, now I'm almost not sure if I should have waited. I wonder if anyone from GE is watching the forum to check our reactions?

Nick

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:35 am

hey nick, another 23 is in the works from what i understand. smooth or white? as far as buying it? yeah, i probably will. i want another american pocketknife maker. but i could go buy a shatt. or a canal street. i hope this will be a wake up for GE and quality will be their first priority. expected a much better first product. i think $75 was the goin rate and for that i want quality. everyone i have talked to is unhappy with their knives. i'll see how our probs are acted on and go from there.

johnnierotten · Post by **johnnierotten** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:50 am

I also assumed they jigged the handles before putting them on....you guys are taking this a lot better than I would have, those dents would have really pissed me off.

.....I feel bad for you guys,I hope they take care of these problems and in a timely manor.

knowtracks · Post by **knowtracks** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:00 am

To answer your question Nick, the answer is NO. If I had it to do over again I would not buy their product. I sent an email asking what can be done about fixing the problems with my knife & was told "If you want to send it back that's fine I have people on a list waiting to buy it for alot more money"
I paid for the 1st 3 knives over 2 months ago, I was told & paid for
1. A 1095 carbon steel Red Diamond jig #23 Trapper With Tidioute tang stamp.
2. A 440c SS Caramel Horse jig #23 Trapper with Great Eastern tang stamp.
3. A 1095 carbon steel Sambar Stag #23 Trapper with Northfield tang stamp.

I would like to know why the red Diamond jig is 440 SS with Gr. Eastern stamp. I don't mind 440c SS but I bought a CARBON steel knife.
I guess this doesn't matter to anyone else, but it does to me.

Dave

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:01 am

That's some bad stuff! I presume they jig the handles before hand and when they install them, they tap the bolster with a punch to draw the bolster down to meet the jig in the bone, I have seen it in several brands of knives including case, queen, S&M ect. That is just a horrible finish on that clip blade, though I like the overall looks of the pattern; but if the quality isn't there..........

JMHO, it sounds like they got in over thier head

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:08 am

I just got in a batch... White smooth bone 23 models in 440C and Bokote Wood 73 models in 1095. No problems on the bolsters ...because the handle scales are not jigged of course

I haven't had a chance to check them all. The two I opened don't have any serious issues. The shield is set flush on the bokote 23. No shield on the white bone to examine. Blades walk and talk like I like them to. I have no problems there. A couple of the pins stick out a bit more than I like on the white bone. Blade finish is not the greatest on either, but looks much better than Hukk's.

All in all... The two I've examined aren't bad by my standards ...fit is pretty good.

Haven't seen any of the jigged bone examples up close and personal. I'll reserve saying anything else til I get my hands on a few more.

I've attached pictures, but my pictures are pathetic as usual

singin46 · Post by **singin46** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:20 am

Thas a cryin shame. Cause they look great to the computer eye.

Singin46

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:32 am

Thanks for all the responses so far. Dave- it really seems like they have a way to go in terms of customer relations if that's how they reacted. They may have a list of people waiting for their knives, but if they want to keep these people coming back it seems like they need to step it up a notch in quality control & customer service. As Johnnie F said at $75 a pop we are expecting quality. If they are rushing these out the door to meet demand, it may come back to bite them in the ass...

I am sure they are well aware that we have alternatives like S&M and Canal Street. I know we had some one from GE posting here and I welcome them to chime in. I am sure no one here will attack them personally for giving their opinion.

nick

PS It looks like Bryan found the 1095 we were hoping for...
PPS Does anyone think an AAPK knife review forum may be a good idea?

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:22 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

this looks like it has a finer finish than either of mine and the etches are darker.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:01 pm

nmikash wrote:I have read everyone's evaluations on these G.E.'s & I have a question. For those of you who have them; would you buy another one say next week if they came out with a 3rd configuration? Would you perhaps wait a while to see if quality control tightens up?

I have a birthday coming up & mentioned that I might like one of these knives, now I'm almost not sure if I should have waited. I wonder if anyone from GE is watching the forum to check our reactions?

Nick

I would have loved to give a rave review, as I did when I got a set of the first years production of Canal Street Cutlery, with matching serial numbers BTW. BUT, I need to remain unbiased, analytical, and honest. To get better Great Eastern needs honest feedback like this, delivered in a nuetral tone. They do not need to be blasted out of the water, nor a pat on the back because we desire another American cutlery company. Then, ask themselves how do we fix this, so that a customer never gets a knife like this let alone 2.

This is another thing I was told by a seller, that the sellers were not given matching numbers on the 2 knives. Many collectors want to get matching numbers, I did.

Will I buy another, well that depends on how they respond to these 2 knives that could not have gone through a final inspection. Maybe they need an excellent QC guy like me that can analyze and find production problems.

I'm Good, I only did it for 25 years.

Anyway, back to the question, I will make my phone calls and go from there. If their customer service is good, I would buy again. I want to see another EXCELLENT American cutlery company and unfortunately they won't make it if they continue on thier current path.

To make a quality product, the must have their own definition of quality, what it is, how to reach it, controls in place, everyone on the same page. Timely delivery is not quality, that is a different parameter, one that comes AFTER the definition of quality has been agreed upon and reached. I think I can see what some of the problems were and that's assuming they milled the blades. Would I send a knife out of my shop like this, No!

Once again, I'm just trying to be objective and honest, I'm not trying to bash anyone. I showed the pictures, described the problems, minimumly I think, and let that speak for itself. I'm hoping for the best.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:06 pm

what hukk says works for me.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:32 pm

I spoke with Bill Howard breifly and will be sending the 2 knives back with everything that I wrote as well as a link to this post. It's only fair to see what the knife collecting community is saying. What better way to get some quick feedback, especially for a first release?

He did say that there is no such thing as a perfect knife and I agree. He also said that if a customer has a concern, it's usually genuine and I feel his concern was genuine. When he inspects the knives I think he will be in agreement with me as far as the finish on the blades; I don't believe anyone would be happy with these.

I do not believe the knives that I recieved represent the standard quality of Great Eastern Cutlery, but rather an anomaly, 1 guy getting worst case in fit and finish on 2 knives.

It's a good start, I will of course keep everyone posted.

edgy46 · Post by **edgy46** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:48 pm

The marks in the bolsters could be from buffing with a soft rag wheel after the bolsters and scales were assembled,possibly after the knife was finished.the soft wheel would follow the grooves in the bone, and eat away the crisp corners of the bolsters.Just my opinion

Rusty1 · Post by **Rusty1** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:13 pm

I know we have heard about the problems associated with first offerings from GEC, I understand also that GEC need to know of problematic issues with what they are producing, and the first runs should pobably be error free, has anyone had the feeling though, that because these knives are the first offerings from a new company they are wanted as collectors pieces regardless of flaws. Now if only I could get my hands on a Amber Horse Cut No 23 cannot find one anywhere, help if you can.
Thanks

Rusty1

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:45 pm

hey rusty, you're probably right. they will be collectable, anyway. but if these issues are not addressed now, there might not be a later for the company. they need our support, we need quality knives.

edgy, if it was a soft wheel, the handle material will go long before the bolsters. these notches are not softened like polishing does to metal.

Mint Set Man · Post by **Mint Set Man** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:05 am

I am sure these are just " opening night jitters " and things will get much better as time goes on.

I will exchange any GEC knife for anybody reggardless of where it was purchased ...if I had inventory. These knives have sold out extremely fast. I think the 2 knives in question were the exception . Most all of ours were very well done and have had no complaints other than one with a little rough tang rubbing on spring.

I think we should be thankful someone has the balls to go out on a limb and start a new cutlery in these times.

BTW, did I miss something on the 440ss thing ?? How do you tell it was'nt 440C ???

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:24 am

Mint Set Man wrote:I am sure these are just " opening night jitters " and things will get much better as time goes on.

I agree and also feel that the knives I recieved do not represent the average quality, but rather, I just got unlucky. BTW, I did order gec73chestnut from you, talk to you tomorrow.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:28 am

thanks for the reply bill. you were most helpful when i spoke to you about the quality issue. your service was beyond reproach. i too believe these probs will be addressed and look forward to another american owned and run knife company. those new ones look nice.

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:17 am

edgy46 wrote:The marks in the bolsters could be from buffing with a soft rag wheel after the bolsters and scales were assembled,possibly after the knife was finished.the soft wheel would follow the grooves in the bone, and eat away the crisp corners of the bolsters.Just my opinion

Exactly correct.

That is a well known phenomenon that was documented a long time ago in an article in the Case Collectors Club magazine. The marks on the bolsters are called "sucking out marks".

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:23 am

hey knifaholic, can you elaorate? i'm all ears. i've never heard the term and , bummer, did'nt read the article. this phenom. is an error, correct?

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:31 am

jonet143 wrote:hey knifaholic, can you elaorate? i'm all ears. i've never heard the term and , bummer, did'nt read the article. this phenom. is an error, correct?

Well, it is just as Edgy wrote. Handle slabs are ALWAYS jigged and dyed before being pinned to the liners. If the jig trails extend to the bolsters after the rough hafting process, then during the final buffing with soft wheels the spinning cloth wheel edge gets "funneled" through the jig trail and wears away a bit at the bolster at the end of the jig trail. NOT AN ERROR at all...but a sign of a properly hafted hand made knife. I see it on some of the new Queen knives that I buy. It is normally VERY subtle and not something that one would notice without close exmaination.

Whn I first noticed this on Case pocketknives in the 70's, I mistakenly assumed that the handles were jigged post-installation but I quickly realized that that could not be a workable method and came upon the other explanation after thinking about it.

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