The Gall Of Some People

[SolWarrior]

Jerry, I saw the listing and several others. I sent him a message just now:

"This is not a question but a notification. Your "great eastern cuttlery" knife is a fake. All GEC knives are stamped and there's no resemblance to the real thing. You have the same exact fake knife listed as a Case XX. In fact, you have several fraudulent listings and you know it. You're a shyster and will be reported to eBay."

I reported him for the GEC & the Case XX but he has several more fraudulent listings. If anyone wants to report the others "that would be greaaaat." (Lundberg from the movie Office Space)

I got a reply:

"go blow your self im a gun guy i know nothing about knifes thank you . im going off what the knife said thank you so before you call me a shyster maybe next time ask cause i would rather know if i listed it wrong than sell it as some thing else hope you have a great day

- joe.jost.vfhy3x"

My reply:

"Well how favorable... for you. The knife says nothing. Not GEC nor Case XX. Unless you can hear it talking to you. In which case I would seek help."

Edit: I received one last reply from him: "thanks for the info i will look in to them" With that, I now feel some remorse for my approach. Would it have sunk in if I had asked him politely? My gut feeling is that he would have ignored my message and left it as is but I'll never know for sure.

[terryl308]

Jerry, I saw the listing and several others. I sent him a message just now:

"This is not a question but a notification. Your "great eastern cuttlery" knife is a fake. All GEC knives are stamped and there's no resemblance to the real thing. You have the same exact fake knife listed as a Case XX. In fact, you have several fraudulent listings and you know it. You're a shyster and will be reported to eBay."

I reported him for the GEC & the Case XX but he has several more fraudulent listings. If anyone wants to report the others "that would be greaaaat." (Lundberg from the movie Office Space)

I got a reply:

"go blow your self im a gun guy i know nothing about knifes thank you . im going off what the knife said thank you so before you call me a shyster maybe next time ask cause i would rather know if i listed it wrong than sell it as some thing else hope you have a great day

- joe.jost.vfhy3x"

My reply:

"Well how favorable... for you. The knife says nothing. Not GEC nor Case XX. Unless you can hear it talking to you. In which case I would seek help."

Wow, talking knives! and the plural for Knife is Knifes? I always thought it was knives. What a dumb a--! Terry

[Tsar Bomba]

He was clearly enough of a "knife guy" to fish the name "GEC" out of somewhere when he posted that listing..

[dcgm4]

Edit: I received one last reply from him: "thanks for the info i will look in to them" With that, I now feel some remorse for my approach. Would it have sunk in if I had asked him politely? My gut feeling is that he would have ignored my message and left it as is but I'll never know for sure.

I wouldn't worry about it. If he was serious about looking into the knife he would've pulled the auctions, which as of this moment he hasn't even though he has one knife in two different listings. I think he's just saying that to appease you. I doubt he'll do any research at all.

[SolWarrior]

He was clearly enough of a "knife guy" to fish the name "GEC" out of somewhere when he posted that listing..

I wouldn't worry about it. If he was serious about looking into the knife he would've pulled the auctions, which as of this moment he hasn't even though he has one knife in two different listings. I think he's just saying that to appease you. I doubt he'll do any research at all.

Thanks for your response, Tony & dcgm4 . As it turns out you're both right. Here's yet another reply. This time it came from the owner of the eBay acct. himself.

"I am the owner of this account and I see you are saying I have questionable items. I will admit I am not a knife person but I have learned in 40 of the firearms business with one of the biggest and most reputable stores in Kansas. that there are words 'always and never' spoken as it is a voice of a idiot. These knives were bought from an estate and I had a local "expert" who has most likely seen and owned more knives that you ever will. He had no problem of any of these and he as well priced them to sell. I would be very careful on who you call a syster and one of being dishonest. If anyone who knows knives one can see they are priced very reasonable and to move. It now come to this. If you want an item bid on it..If not do not simple as that."

I just cannot hold back so I had to counter...again:

R-e-a-d carefully and look for the words you mentioned as words of an idiot. I didn't use them but if I did they wouldn't be incorrect, not in this case. How can the same exact type knife be listed as GEC & CASE XX and consider this an "expert" description? Whether they're priced reasonably or not is a matter of opinion. However, your knives are not stamped at all and THAT is a fact. Any reputable knife cutlery from the U.S. of A. stamps their knives as such and with their brand name as well.

This is basic practice in the knife industry. Do your guns made in the U.S. come unmarked straight from their manufacturers like Colt or Smith & Wesson? The answer is an emphatic and resounding NO. Reputable? Not with these listings. Do not list things that are bogus and blatantly name them as you or your "expert" see fit simply to make a buck from hard working honest people whether out of ignorance or to deceive, period.

Your knives have been reported as fraudulent, whether eBay takes the time to enforce fair and honest trading practices is up to them. But you, sir, do not have a leg to stand on with regards to this matter so take your lecture on "reputable" business practices eslewhere.

[Colonel26]

Good on ya. I smelled the distinct smell of the barnyard as I read his reply.

[dcgm4]

Looks like he uploaded different pictures to the Case XX listing, so he no longer has the same knife in two listings. But he still has the unmarked knife listed as a GEC. It sucks that eBay doesn't do anything to stop sellers like this.

[Tsar Bomba]

Felix, I imagine this is one of those situations where you just have to remind yourself that you can't fix stupid. Good for you for trying once more, at least!

Good on ya. I smelled the distinct smell of the barnyard as I read his reply.

You've got a way with words, Colonel!

[Mumbleypeg]

Just finished reading this thread and would like to make a couple of comments. Having dealt with people for many years as both a salesman and as a customer, an employee and a supervisor, a management consultant/coach, and being a parent, has taught me to avoid personal accusations. It's human nature to respond defensively and negatively to personal attack.

I have cordially communicated to several eBay sellers that the knife they had listed was not an authentic (fill in the blank), including why the knife was not authentic. In every case I have limited the message to discussion of the knife. Never would I remotely infer the seller is dishonest. This approach usually results in a thank you response from the seller and a respectful and cordial dialog regarding the knife. In many cases the seller has either revised the listing to indicate there are questions about the knife's authenticity, or the seller has removed the listing. Occasionally I've received a thank you but no other response and no changes to the listing. I don't waste any further time on those listings other than to highlight it here in the counterfeits forum.

It's unlikely any seller, honest or dishonest, will react favorably to being called dishonest so I just don't go there. Drop it and walk away. Some eBay sellers who list knives sell them as part of many other items. Their knowledge of knives is poor, especilly as compared to most who frequent AAPK. If approached in a helpful, congenial and non-confrontational manner they'll do the right thing.

There's obviously a few shysters though.

Just my personal experiences.

Ken

[jerryd6818]

You are spot on, Ken. People are wired to respond to confrontation with confrontation, so I do much the same, with much the same results. If the seller has 100% positive feed back, I open the message with "In an attempt to help preserve your 100% positive feedback, you should know....." and go on to tell them what is wrong with the listing. Most of the time the response is positive, sometimes neutral (simply a response of "Thank you") but I have received a few "either bid or mind your own business", always from a seller with less than 100% positive feedback. That last response raises my hackles but I try to consider the source and move on. Just the way I do it. Your mileage may vary.

[dweb1897]

Here is an actual conversation with a seller that goes by the Ebay handle 21clock

his listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNCLE-HENRY-STA ... SwTM5Y2qxf

my question:
WAS THIS KNIFE MADE IN THE U.S.A.

his response:
IF IT DOESN'T SAY IN THE LISTING WHERE IT WAS MADE.PLEASE ASSUME IT IS IMPORTED.KEEP IN MIND ANY AND ALL NEW KNIVES ON EBAY AND ELSEWHERE ARE IMPORTED EXCEPT FOR CASE XX,BEAR AND SONS AND BUCK,HOWEVER BUCK DOES IMPORT SOMETIMES.I HOPE THIS HELPS IN THE FUTURE.

my response:
What confused me is in your description it says "1970 to now" when it should say "2004 to now" which is when they were out sourced to-china....not to mention the fact that Schrade didn't start making them until 1982. There are many good knives on Ebay made in the USA...Schatt & Morgan...Queen...Great Eastern Cutlery..Benchmade...Ka-bar, to name a few. Why is it that when over 95% of the knives sold on Ebay include a clear picture of the the tang stamp, which would immediately let me know that your knife was an import, you don't. It's almost as if you are trying to deceive the buyers by making them think it might be an original US made Schrade....or why not simply check the box on the description form that indicates where it's made or describe it correctly as made after 2004?

his response:
THE 1970 TO NOW IS PRE-FILLED FROM EBAY.KEEP IN MIND "ALL BRAND NEW KNIVES"

I have to agree...you can't fix stupid

[SolWarrior]

Ken, agreed. I've taken the approach that you and Jerry have described most of the time and usually get a polite reply. With this one, I read the thread and his listings and got caught up in the moment and acted. I regret starting out my conversation the way I did. This guy, however, has a 99.3% rating with a no returns personal policy and a list of very stern rules for his potetial buyers. Also, most buyers who are taken by eBay sellers like this one won't rate them negatively for fear of reprisal, especially when their own rates are at 100% - as most who buy only are. As it turns out, if this guy was truly as reputable as he claims he would have still fixed his listings cause a personal quality such as this is deeply embedded and nothing is more important than to keep one's word and reputation untarnished. With that, I still believe your approach and Jerry's are the best way to handle matters like this, at least until They go there.

[Colonel26]

I sent the seller a message as well (and reported the item to eBay). I didn't call him names, here is the reply.

[dcgm4]

Here is an actual conversation with a seller that goes by the Ebay handle 21clock

his listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNCLE-HENRY-STA ... SwTM5Y2qxf

my question:
WAS THIS KNIFE MADE IN THE U.S.A.

his response:
IF IT DOESN'T SAY IN THE LISTING WHERE IT WAS MADE.PLEASE ASSUME IT IS IMPORTED.KEEP IN MIND ANY AND ALL NEW KNIVES ON EBAY AND ELSEWHERE ARE IMPORTED EXCEPT FOR CASE XX,BEAR AND SONS AND BUCK,HOWEVER BUCK DOES IMPORT SOMETIMES.I HOPE THIS HELPS IN THE FUTURE.

my response:
What confused me is in your description it says "1970 to now" when it should say "2004 to now" which is when they were out sourced to-china....not to mention the fact that Schrade didn't start making them until 1982. There are many good knives on Ebay made in the USA...Schatt & Morgan...Queen...Great Eastern Cutlery..Benchmade...Ka-bar, to name a few. Why is it that when over 95% of the knives sold on Ebay include a clear picture of the the tang stamp, which would immediately let me know that your knife was an import, you don't. It's almost as if you are trying to deceive the buyers by making them think it might be an original US made Schrade....or why not simply check the box on the description form that indicates where it's made or describe it correctly as made after 2004?

his response:
THE 1970 TO NOW IS PRE-FILLED FROM EBAY.KEEP IN MIND "ALL BRAND NEW KNIVES"

I have to agree...you can't fix stupid

Why didn't he just look for the country of origin on the blade? If there's no country of origin mark then it means it was made in the US, right? Unless the knife was made for the foreign market, but I don't think it was.

[dweb1897]

Here is an actual conversation with a seller that goes by the Ebay handle 21clock

Why didn't he just look for the country of origin on the blade? If there's no country of origin mark then it means it was made in the US, right? Unless the knife was made for the foreign market, but I don't think it was.

The knife in question is a Schrade..made after 2004 which means it was made overseas and aren't worth nearly what a pre 2004 US made Schrade is.He knows where it was made but a lot of sellers are purposely not telling the country of origin and using bleary photos of the tang stamp, if they include any at all, in an attempt to scam uninformed collectors...IMO

[SolWarrior]

I sent the seller a message as well (and reported the item to eBay). I didn't call him names, here is the reply.

IMG_0349.PNG

Colonel, He replied to my last message with: "lol"

Then, later today replied again: "good news and bad news..it is not a eastern knife but a queen..the new girl did not read what we wrote. thank you for your help."

I didn't reply. He's a waste of time. He has already shown he has no shame. Apparently, it's going to be what ever he wants it to be at any given moment.