How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Anything and everything of value is counterfeited today. How prevalent is knife counterfeiting and what do you look for not to be ripped off?
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Oscar, there is a whole thread dedicated to counterfeits here. "Counterfeit Watch" and it is big business. Go over there and peruse for a while. Amazing the efforts folks go to and equally amazing how sloppy some are and still sell for big bucks on ebay.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
There's counterfeits of many brands but case is probably the most prevalent target. It's a pretty serious problem.
-Paul T.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Case or any pocket knife faking is nowhere near as profitable as fake bowie knife or worse Confederate bowie knife faking. Been going on a lot longer too. Any time you get a knife that can sell for a thousand dollars or more the fakers will get to work since even if it took them a week to make it the profit is enormous. Add the older fakes, the altered knives, and now all the counterfeit knives coming in from China and we have a veritable tangled web of misrepresented cutlery to deal with.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
If someone shows you a Civil War D-Guard run the other way!Gunsil wrote:Case or any pocket knife faking is nowhere near as profitable as fake bowie knife or worse Confederate bowie knife faking. Been going on a lot longer too. Any time you get a knife that can sell for a thousand dollars or more the fakers will get to work since even if it took them a week to make it the profit is enormous. Add the older fakes, the altered knives, and now all the counterfeit knives coming in from China and we have a veritable tangled web of misrepresented cutlery to deal with.
New and old high dollar knives are faked all the time, pick up a copy of Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery by Gerald Witcher and do a thread search as suggested. Lots of examples and Case is a big target as mentioned, especially older Case knives that have a high collector value. Even new Microtech and Benchmade knives on the $200+ range are faked too, just look on eBay.
They're there waiting for unsuspecting and uneducated buyers because there's a market. Always do your research!
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You're going to look awfully silly with that knife sticking out of your @#$. -Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Just look at the new thread about the Klan bowie knife!! So many of these counterfeits around.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
I have a perfect strategy for avoiding faked knives. I only buy knives that no one would be interested in owning, much less faking.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
I have a friend that owns a retail knife business and he recently told me he has stopped taking in used items unless he personally knows the customer because he has been burned several times with counterfeit Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc... So some of the fakes are very well done. He is a Benchmade dealer and he said the Benchmade infidel was a model that has been counterfeited so much that he won't buy a used one from anyone.
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They say, “Hard work never hurt anyone”, but I'm still not willing to risk it.
They say, “Hard work never hurt anyone”, but I'm still not willing to risk it.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Check out DHGate, they counterfeit everything.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
As a purely philosophical musing:GSPTOPDOG wrote:I have a friend that owns a retail knife business and he recently told me he has stopped taking in used items unless he personally knows the customer because he has been burned several times with counterfeit Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc... So some of the fakes are very well done. He is a Benchmade dealer and he said the Benchmade infidel was a model that has been counterfeited so much that he won't buy a used one from anyone.
I am a law abiding, ethical and moral person, I couldn't shave if I knowingly cheated people, and certainly find counterfeiting a nasty crime. So now, the question, aside from the legal, ethical or moral issues is this, "If an expert can't tell the difference is there a practical difference?"
Does it become the case that if the fakes are so good that you are best served by never paying a price above the cost of a reproduction to cover your butt? Although I don't collect Nazi, WWII paraphernalia, I understand that is close to the issues that the people who do collect it face.
It brings to mind a news story I saw last week about plant based meat substitutes. Apparently they have perfected the process to the point that "experts" could not tell the difference in a real hamburger and one made of plants. I am a meat eater but if I couldn't tell the difference, it would not bother me a bit to eat the plant burger. Why do I feel differently about whether my Benchmade was made at a bench in Oregon City, or Ching Po? Of course the next question has to be, "how much of the material and the tooling in the Benchmade was made in Ching Po?" I am a retired plumber and I always preferred American Standard products for my customers. Now, American Standard products are made in Mexico.
- Mumbleypeg
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Doglegg’s advice is the best answer. Study knives posted in the “counterfeit watch” section here. Get a copy of Witcher’s Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery, read and study it. Best of all examine as many honest old knives as you can. You’ll learn what the real thing looks like, and develop a 6th sense #@$*& detector.doglegg wrote:Oscar, there is a whole thread dedicated to counterfeits here. "Counterfeit Watch" and it is big business. Go over there and peruse for a while. Amazing the efforts folks go to and equally amazing how sloppy some are and still sell for big bucks on ebay.
Last but not least, if in doubt keep your money in your pocket.
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
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If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Based on the burger analogy you provided....Maddogfl wrote:As a purely philosophical musing:GSPTOPDOG wrote:I have a friend that owns a retail knife business and he recently told me he has stopped taking in used items unless he personally knows the customer because he has been burned several times with counterfeit Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc... So some of the fakes are very well done. He is a Benchmade dealer and he said the Benchmade infidel was a model that has been counterfeited so much that he won't buy a used one from anyone.
I am a law abiding, ethical and moral person, I couldn't shave if I knowingly cheated people, and certainly find counterfeiting a nasty crime. So now, the question, aside from the legal, ethical or moral issues is this, "If an expert can't tell the difference is there a practical difference?"
Does it become the case that if the fakes are so good that you are best served by never paying a price above the cost of a reproduction to cover your butt? Although I don't collect Nazi, WWII paraphernalia, I understand that is close to the issues that the people who do collect it face.
It brings to mind a news story I saw last week about plant based meat substitutes. Apparently they have perfected the process to the point that "experts" could not tell the difference in a real hamburger and one made of plants. I am a meat eater but if I couldn't tell the difference, it would not bother me a bit to eat the plant burger. Why do I feel differently about whether my Benchmade was made at a bench in Oregon City, or Ching Po? Of course the next question has to be, "how much of the material and the tooling in the Benchmade was made in Ching Po?" I am a retired plumber and I always preferred American Standard products for my customers. Now, American Standard products are made in Mexico.
If I order a beef burger knowing a tree hugger plant burger is also available, I expect a beef burger. Don't care at all if they taste the same. That is not what I ordered. Beef is what I ordered.
Jerry
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Short answer to thread subject title - too many!! As already noted fakes are rampant for Bowies and one really needs to do their “homework” to not be taken... as noted above by others pocket knife makes that are very desirable such as Case seem to be a major target as well BUT not only Case - I’ve seen desirable old CT makers such as Miller Bros, one example, can also be a target. If an unscrupulous maker/seller sees a profit from faking or cobbling a knife in terms of time and expense then indeed it becomes a possible target. Importantly in my opinion it is not only knives - many areas of collecting suffer from fakes... unfortunate but true!! In a strange sense it keeps all serious collectors on their toes ... but it truly hurts to get burned! Some fakes are so good that in some cases very experienced collectors even get nailed ... like Ken said when I see something suspicious I keep my money in my wallet... but I also won’t hesitate to get opinions from very experienced collectors if I am on the fence..
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Lee
Lee
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Good post Lee. If you want to see how pervasive fakes are across all kinds of collectibles, just watch a few episodes of “Pawn Stars” on television. They frequently have items of all sorts (coins, guns, baseball cards, photographs, paintings, etc) brought in by customers who want to sell them, then they call in the “experts” and it turns out the item is a counterfeit, a reproduction, or a forgery. If there’s money to be made, there are crooks trying to take advantage of the unwary!LongBlade wrote:Short answer to thread subject title - too many!! If an unscrupulous maker/seller sees a profit from faking or cobbling a knife in terms of time and expense then indeed it becomes a possible target. Importantly in my opinion it is not only knives - many areas of collecting suffer from fakes... unfortunate but true!! In a strange sense it keeps all serious collectors on their toes ... but it truly hurts to get burned! Some fakes are so good that in some cases very experienced collectors even get nailed .
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
I think it really good advice to handle as many old or "Old Timey" knives as you can and get a feel for them as a bank teller gets a "feel" for real cash. Don't ever try and pass a fake $100 to a bank teller with any experience (Don't try it anywhere else for that mater) that has some experience handling money. That time processing all those real bills builds up a "feel" for them and when a fake comes in to the hands it is noticed right away in most cases. I think that is true for any collector that gets a feel for what he is collecting.
Please visit my AAPK store: https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/ca ... er_id=2383
They say, “Hard work never hurt anyone”, but I'm still not willing to risk it.
They say, “Hard work never hurt anyone”, but I'm still not willing to risk it.
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
You said it, brother! Thanks for Sharing.Maddogfl wrote:I have a perfect strategy for avoiding faked knives. I only buy knives that no one would be interested in owning, much less faking.
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
I find it helps to know who you are buying from ,it means you may not find what your hunting for today ,but to me its the hunt ,not the find. I hope this makes sence.
C/2/505PIR 11B4P 68-69 (RVN)
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Unfortunately the more it is worth , the more people want to counterfeit it. I have spent a lifetime around old guns and Winchester model 12, 28 gauges are one to beware off, I think their are more countefeits than real ones. And there are good ones! As the price got up to over $4000 they came out of the woodwork. I donot know the answer to the question, just do your homework and deal only with well known sellers. Terry
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
This 1978 Case stamp doesn't look right to me. The placing of the word Case looks too high or close to the edge of the tang, the USA, the huge dots. All looks off to me. Any thoughts others who are Case aficionados? Thanks for any comments you might have.
https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/ca ... ce-is-mint
https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/ca ... ce-is-mint
"It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid." -No Name, High Plains Drifter
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Even without grabbing my legit '78 Case Trapper for a comparison, it looks off to me, too. In addition to all the points you hit, the dots look too far apart. I hope we're wrong, though.
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Adaptable and (usually) affable knife enthusiast, unsure of his knife collecting destination but enjoying the journey
Case taste, Rough Ryder budget
Adaptable and (usually) affable knife enthusiast, unsure of his knife collecting destination but enjoying the journey
Case taste, Rough Ryder budget
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Looks fine to me. Nothing unusual about the stamp or those dots on that pattern. Nice knife.
Ken
Ken
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If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
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If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
I agree with Ken. Looks ok.
David
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"Glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife" Meat Loaf
Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
Italics added by me. Is that sort of stamp particular to that pattern, or are there others that could be expected to have such stamps?Mumbleypeg wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:44 am Nothing unusual about the stamp or those dots on that pattern.
USN 2000-2006
Adaptable and (usually) affable knife enthusiast, unsure of his knife collecting destination but enjoying the journey
Case taste, Rough Ryder budget
Adaptable and (usually) affable knife enthusiast, unsure of his knife collecting destination but enjoying the journey
Case taste, Rough Ryder budget
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
I have two 64047s from 1978. One has dots similar to the knife in question, the other has two dots more narrowly spaced. Not sure how prevalent that is, but the point is, I’ve seen it before.
BTW here’s a picture of the same pattern, year 1978 “authority knife” from knifedb.com which is an excellent resource for Case knives of all ages. I hope the site owner will forgive me “borrowing” the picture. He owes me a dinner anyway so maybe this will cancel that out! As you can see the stamp looks just like the one being questioned in the prior posts. Note there are no periods in U S A - a lot of 1978 stamps are like that whereas others do have periods in U.S.A.
Ken
BTW here’s a picture of the same pattern, year 1978 “authority knife” from knifedb.com which is an excellent resource for Case knives of all ages. I hope the site owner will forgive me “borrowing” the picture. He owes me a dinner anyway so maybe this will cancel that out! As you can see the stamp looks just like the one being questioned in the prior posts. Note there are no periods in U S A - a lot of 1978 stamps are like that whereas others do have periods in U.S.A.
Ken
Member AKTI, TSRA, NRA.
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
If your religion requires that you hate someone, you need a new religion.
When the people fear their government, that is tyranny. When government fears the people, that is freedom.
https://www.akti.org/
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Re: How prevalent is knife counterfeiting?
I came to AAPK not long ago to sell my personal property !! Mind my own business and offer some Beautiful Knives to the members here !! And selling is what I’m doing at a Alarming Rate !! But I did not come here to see my personal property put on display in a Counterfeit Room !!!
I want to Thank the gentleman ( Ken ) who went Far and Above to defend my personal property !! And I mean that Sincerely Sir !!
The original poster and his cohort didn’t just attacked my personal property, As my personal property is a extension of myself !!
After seeing this !! I may have to rethink selling here and return to EBay which I’m sure wouldn’t be a Big Disappointment to the other sellers here I have let’s say a few thousand Pocket Knives and Fixed Blades to Sell and I am in Control of who says and does what !! TY Again Ken for a Superior defense of my property and myself !!!
I want to Thank the gentleman ( Ken ) who went Far and Above to defend my personal property !! And I mean that Sincerely Sir !!
The original poster and his cohort didn’t just attacked my personal property, As my personal property is a extension of myself !!
After seeing this !! I may have to rethink selling here and return to EBay which I’m sure wouldn’t be a Big Disappointment to the other sellers here I have let’s say a few thousand Pocket Knives and Fixed Blades to Sell and I am in Control of who says and does what !! TY Again Ken for a Superior defense of my property and myself !!!