Case Tested Advertising Knife

[knifeaholic]

Ended awhile ago:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Case-Teste ... 7675.l2557

This was never a Case knife, it was made out of a Utica advertising knife.

[just bob]

Good money flushed down the drain. Sporty was right about not seeing one of these before - good reason.

[XxTestedxX]

He knew it to. Sells as much BS as tommy G, just sells enough volume to bury the truth. sorry..not sorry

[kootenay joe]

Xx, are you speaking from your own experiences ?
Hearsay is not justification to character assassinate someone.
Bill Swan is likely the hardest working knife seller on ebay. He brings a huge number of knives for us to collect. The vast majority are all correct and some are top examples. He provides good in focus pictures and answers questions in a straight forward manner. He knows he is not an expert in any area of 'knives' so he lets the viewer decide for himself. This knife in question is spotted as a fake by 'The Case Expert'. It is not one that is obvious to non Case experts.
Fakes are common with collectible knives. You should expect that in any collection or list of knives, some are fake. And some are so well done that most collectors cannot spot it.
My reason for posting is not so much to defend Bill Swan, but to speak up against using the internet to propagate hearsay in place of fact. Having been subjected to this in a small town over a dog, i know how hurtful and damaging it can be.
kj

[msteele6]

I have seen sportcolbs sell a Case knife marked 63xx with two blades and claim not to know if the knife was correct. In my opinion a seller who sells as many knives as he does knew or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that there was a problem with that knife and yet there was no mention of it in the listing. It doesn't take any great expert to know Case's pattern numbering system dictates that that knife should have had 3 blades. This is simply one of the more egregious examples, there are plenty of others.

I agree that sportcolbs sells many correct knives, however, it seems to me that a seller who makes as much money off of his business should care enough about his reputation to make a concerted effort to BECOME an expert in the field, or at least knowledgeable. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned or wrong or both, however, that is my humble opinion.

Mark Steele

[espn77]

He has sold Remington knives in the past that I was certain were correct that I really wanted to add to my collection. I refuse to support anyone that knowingly sells fake knives. Regardless if its the last knife to finish out my collection. I think it speaks volumes to what kind of person you are. Anyone willing to "deceive" someone to make a dollar is a sorry person. Even if its only one time. We have compermised in so many ways as a country that we say "he sells so much volume, he cant know everything" I agree, he cant. But when its brought to his attention and its ignored. It is unexcusable, and I wont be part of funding his next fake knife. We have gone round and round about this seller and it makes me scratch my head that anyone on here would be supportive of his actions. my $.0025

[zp4ja]

Xx, are you speaking from your own experiences ?
Hearsay is not justification to character assassinate someone.
Bill Swan is likely the hardest working knife seller on ebay. He brings a huge number of knives for us to collect. The vast majority are all correct and some are top examples. He provides good in focus pictures and answers questions in a straight forward manner. He knows he is not an expert in any area of 'knives' so he lets the viewer decide for himself. This knife in question is spotted as a fake by 'The Case Expert'. It is not one that is obvious to non Case experts.
Fakes are common with collectible knives. You should expect that in any collection or list of knives, some are fake. And some are so well done that most collectors cannot spot it.
My reason for posting is not so much to defend Bill Swan, but to speak up against using the internet to propagate hearsay in place of fact. Having been subjected to this in a small town over a dog, i know how hurtful and damaging it can be.
kj

So what about when he buys these knives he is flipping? Mean to tell me he hopes for the best since "He is not an expert?

This is about the 5th post that you have defended this guy, which is your right in my opinion. It is also my right and the rights of others to say what they want also so deal with it.

I doubt if he knew a knife for certain in his mind was fake he would avoid selling it. Just too many instance observed to give him a pass. Sorry, my prerogative to have such an opinion and voice it if I choose to.

[Jdub]

Well said guys. I am with you 100%. He sells way to many knives to not know a real from a fake.

[btrwtr]

A fake is a fake is a fake. I readily recognize the OP knife as a fake and I am confident the sellers can as well.

Never bought a knife him and never will.

[LongBlade]

I agree with most above regarding this seller... there is just no way after years of selling so many knives that he doesn't recognize a fake or counterfeit... and while some say his knives "can" be hit or miss, i.e. some may be real, as Wayne said I just will not ever give him my business under any circumstances..

On a related note - check Bruce Voyles column in the most recent Knife Magazine (April 2017) where he gives abit of an editorial and viewpoint on fakes/counterfeits & knives...

[XxTestedxX]

Xx, are you speaking from your own experiences ?
Hearsay is not justification to character assassinate someone.
Bill Swan is likely the hardest working knife seller on ebay. He brings a huge number of knives for us to collect. The vast majority are all correct and some are top examples. He provides good in focus pictures and answers questions in a straight forward manner. He knows he is not an expert in any area of 'knives' so he lets the viewer decide for himself. This knife in question is spotted as a fake by 'The Case Expert'. It is not one that is obvious to non Case experts.
Fakes are common with collectible knives. You should expect that in any collection or list of knives, some are fake. And some are so well done that most collectors cannot spot it.
My reason for posting is not so much to defend Bill Swan, but to speak up against using the internet to propagate hearsay in place of fact. Having been subjected to this in a small town over a dog, i know how hurtful and damaging it can be.
kj

my comments was harsh, I could have shared my opinion in a more gentleman kind of way. The knife was one that could fool most. Maybe my opinion wasn't just over that one. but maybe it was over others that he claimed not to know. He knows his knives, and on occasion I think he let a few pass that he knew were more questionable. only he knows how much time be puts into authenticating his listings.

[kootenay joe]

Quote: "only he knows how much time be puts into authenticating his listings."
I doubt he puts any time into authenticating the knives he buys. He drives hundreds of miles to look at & buy knives or collections then takes pics lists, packs up & ships all on his own. I can't see there being time to carefully examine every knife.
kj

[edge213]

I think with the money he is making......he knows EXACTLY what he is doing.

[kootenay joe]

Edge, you really thinks he makes a lot of money buying & re-selling knives ? I think it is low paying work, esp. after ebay & PP fees and some knives selling for less than their cost. There are ebay knife sellers here at AAPK who know what amount of money can be earned. Maybe they can comment on how lucrative or not this is.
I sold over 100 knives to Bill a couple of years ago. He paid me a decent amount for them. I watched the auctions and he made money, but not a lot. I would not want to do that amount of work for such very modest return.
kj

[just bob]

I don't know Bill Swan. I couldn't pick him out of a police line up. I don't agree with the way he lists his items and will not bid on anything he is selling. I object to the use of the words, genuine, original, and authentic when describing spurious items. I do however have a friend that knows Bill well and speaks with him often. He makes the point that every knife Bill sells is sold with an unconditional money back guarantee. If you aren't happy just send it back. Really that is something to consider. If you buy a knife you have questions about you have 30 days to get a second opinion and if it is a bad knife all you have to do is send it back and get a refund and the shipping costs. You sure won't get that guarantee buying at flea markets, auctions, and even knife shows. Yes there are counterfeit knives sold at all major shows. At the last Lexington show I was offered 3 Case counterfeit knives. The dealer told me plainly what they were. I passed on them. The other point that he makes is that Bill is a busy man and doesn't post these listings himself. He has helpers doing that and that explains some things. They seem to use the words near mint when describing knives that have been heavily sharpened and also call regular pull knives long pull knives, black bone red bone, and many other fubars as well. Those types of listing errors are coming from helpers that don't know knives well and not Bill. I do believe he knows knives well and is laughing all the way to the bank or else he couldn't make reasonable bids on bulk lots of knives. He buys these knives in big lots and has the helpers do the work while he is out and about. If he made an inventory of the knives he bought and separated out the reworked knives he would improve his image 100%. I suppose that fake Case Budweiser knife might have some value as a fantasy piece to an advanced brewery collector, but not to an advanced Case knife collector and surely an advanced knife collector could spot it in a dark room. Ebay would like to do away with the customer relations dept. and have the community police itself and that is the only way these problems will ever be corrected. As long as these items are selling for good money they will continue to be listed. When bidders wise up and refrain from bidding on junk and leave appropriate feedback when they have been duped the community will correct the problem. Until then caveat emptor - the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.
Happy bidding.

[zp4ja]

Edge, you really thinks he makes a lot of money buying & re-selling knives ? I think it is low paying work, esp. after ebay & PP fees and some knives selling for less than their cost. There are ebay knife sellers here at AAPK who know what amount of money can be earned. Maybe they can comment on how lucrative or not this is.
I sold over 100 knives to Bill a couple of years ago. He paid me a decent amount for them. I watched the auctions and he made money, but not a lot. I would not want to do that amount of work for such very modest return.
kj

So just curious, how exactly did he determine how much he paid you for the "over 100 knives" you sold him?

Do he come in with a X amount of dollars per knife and multiple by the number of knives no matter what they are?

Does he look at the knives and determine estimated (variable outcome) auction value and subtract a certain percentage and cut a check?

Can't personally buy into the fact he drives all these miles to Billy Bob's house to look at a collection and does not have the capacity to tell if his purchase will make a profit or not based on knife knowledge or lack thereof as you are claiming.

As I said previous, when he buys he is just hoping for the best? I think not personally.

I am not sure of anyone that has a successful business (I assume he is since he keeps selling) whom sells but does not understand fully the products they are selling. Makes zero sense especially when the products sold are purchased and not produced.

Just common sense in my opinion.

Jerry

[zp4ja]

I don't know Bill Swan. I couldn't pick him out of a police line up. I don't agree with the way he lists his items and will not bid on anything he is selling. I object to the use of the words, genuine, original, and authentic when describing spurious items. I do however have a friend that knows Bill well and speaks with him often. He makes the point that every knife Bill sells is sold with an unconditional money back guarantee. If you aren't happy just send it back. Really that is something to consider. If you buy a knife you have questions about you have 30 days to get a second opinion and if it is a bad knife all you have to do is send it back and get a refund and the shipping costs. You sure won't get that guarantee buying at flea markets, auctions, and even knife shows. Yes there are counterfeit knives sold at all major shows. At the last Lexington show I was offered 3 Case counterfeit knives. The dealer told me plainly what they were. I passed on them. The other point that he makes is that Bill is a busy man and doesn't post these listings himself. He has helpers doing that and that explains some things. They seem to use the words near mint when describing knives that have been heavily sharpened and also call regular pull knives long pull knives, black bone red bone, and many other fubars as well. Those types of listing errors are coming from helpers that don't know knives well and not Bill. I do believe he knows knives well and is laughing all the way to the bank or else he couldn't make reasonable bids on bulk lots of knives. He buys these knives in big lots and has the helpers do the work while he is out and about. If he made an inventory of the knives he bought and separated out the reworked knives he would improve his image 100%. I suppose that fake Case Budweiser knife might have some value as a fantasy piece to an advanced brewery collector, but not to an advanced Case knife collector and surely an advanced knife collector could spot it in a dark room. Ebay would like to do away with the customer relations dept. and have the community police itself and that is the only way these problems will ever be corrected. As long as these items are selling for good money they will continue to be listed. When bidders wise up and refrain from bidding on junk and leave appropriate feedback when they have been duped the community will correct the problem. Until then caveat emptor - the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.
Happy bidding.

Hey Bob,

I do agree with most of what you have said. However, a 30 money back guarantee just does not mask the fact if the seller knows the knife is incorrect or does caveat emptor excuse that either. It is a question of integrity for me personally. I like dealing with people of integrity.

As others have stated, never bought a knife from him, never will. Don't care if it my grail knife at 1 penny with free shipping.

This statement you made I agree 100% with as I just stated in my last post...

"I do believe he knows knives well and is laughing all the way to the bank or else he couldn't make reasonable bids on bulk lots of knives".

BINGO!!!

Jerry

[kootenay joe]

Jerry, "Do he come in with a X amount of dollars per knife and multiple by the number of knives no matter what they are?"

Yes, that is how most ebay knife sellers buy when purchasing a knife lot.

And, "Can't personally buy into the fact he drives all these miles to Billy Bob's house to look at a collection and does not have the capacity to tell if his purchase will make a profit or not based on knife knowledge or lack thereof as you are claiming."

I'm sure he knows 'average market value' but if you follow ebay knives you know that some days (many days), the bidders just don't show up and all knives ending that evening do poorly. It is a real crap shoot being an ebay seller. There is no guarantee you will make money.
I am sure the ebay sellers here can attest to this.
Ebay sellers are not wealthy people. People with money don't want to be bothered with all the time & work involved.
That Bill Swan has been an ebay seller for many years does not mean he is getting rich, just that he makes enough to live on.
kj

[edge213]

Edge, you really thinks he makes a lot of money buying & re-selling knives ? I think it is low paying work, esp. after ebay & PP fees and some knives selling for less than their cost. There are ebay knife sellers here at AAPK who know what amount of money can be earned. Maybe they can comment on how lucrative or not this is.
I sold over 100 knives to Bill a couple of years ago. He paid me a decent amount for them. I watched the auctions and he made money, but not a lot. I would not want to do that amount of work for such very modest return.
kj

Simple economics, if you are making money you stay in business. If you are losing money you go out of business. You stated Mr. Swan has been selling on ebay for many years. So obviously he is making money. There is no way in the world he could be in the knife business this long without having the knowledge to know the difference between real and fake most of the time. I do not know him and have never bought from him or sold to him.....just common sense.

[zp4ja]

Jerry, "Do he come in with a X amount of dollars per knife and multiple by the number of knives no matter what they are?"

Yes, that is how most ebay knife sellers buy when purchasing a knife lot.

And, "Can't personally buy into the fact he drives all these miles to Billy Bob's house to look at a collection and does not have the capacity to tell if his purchase will make a profit or not based on knife knowledge or lack thereof as you are claiming."

I'm sure he knows 'average market value' but if you follow ebay knives you know that some days (many days), the bidders just don't show up and all knives ending that evening do poorly. It is a real crap shoot being an ebay seller. There is no guarantee you will make money.
I am sure the ebay sellers here can attest to this.
Ebay sellers are not wealthy people. People with money don't want to be bothered with all the time & work involved.
That Bill Swan has been an ebay seller for many years does not mean he is getting rich, just that he makes enough to live on.
kj

May I point out that the OP knife is an advertising knife which normally don't sell for much with some exceptions. That said, this fake knife he likely bought for 10 bucks brought $202.50 at auction. Even if he spent 100 bucks on it which I HIGHLY doubt, he still made 100 bucks minus fees. Besides, how hard he works, how many knives he sells, how much money he makes, is missing the point here and "smoke and mirrors" in my opinion. I personally don't care if selling knives if someone knows is fake reaps 2 dollars or 200 dollars. Points back to integrity as I stated.

By your own admission or estimation might be a more fair characterization, "I'm sure he knows average market value". If that is the case, he does know knives to some extent, As Bob stated and I quoted, he has to know knives to be able to buy bulk or collections. Additionally, as I stated, someone would have to be an idiot to engage in business and not know their product.

This is a question of integrity and I seem not to be the only one here since others have stated they will not even buy good knives from him due to his actions.

So here is my question, whom here has sent this seller notification of a posted fake and what was his response and subsequent course of action on the sale of said knife?

My guess is "I am not a knife expert" and the sale went on but I will give benefit of the doubt until I hear otherwise.

Jerry

[just bob]

There is a very recent post on here where Sporty had a really awful knife listed. He was called out on it and said that Tony Foster had verified the knife. Anyone see that thread?

[just bob]

Here you go. It wasn't in the counterfeit section.


http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... er#p526936

[zp4ja]

Here you go. It wasn't in the counterfeit section.


http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... er#p526936

Thanks for posting that Bob. I appreciate that. I also saw that post. For sake of prosperity and my point, here are some excerpts from the link that you have provided...

I just went back and forth with him a few times, I will never buy from him again. Here is what he said

From: sportcolbs
To: pcwc21
Subject: Re: Details about item: pcwc21 sent a message about vintage Case Tested XX 1920-40 RARE horse pick pliers rare 4" bone knife #361747779082
Sent Date: Oct-03-16 18:10:26 PDT
Dear pcwc21,

I could care less what the forums say. There are a bunch of wanna be know it alls. I got the knife from Tony Foster who is one of the historians for the Case Museum. .


My Reply is below


New message to: sportcolbs

Are you saying Tony Foster who is one of the historians for the Case Museum, gave you that knife with the other company's patient number on it.

I just checked the patient number, Look at the photo I attached of a Barnett Plier-Knife, then look at yours its the same.
Both have 20,1900


He didn't say anything else

So he does not evaluate his knives but says Tony Foster signed off on it? That is nonsense and not inline with he "does not know or inspects his knives".

Allow me to further quote from that thread please. In its entirety Roland as you posted...

I think many of you are too hard on Bill S.(sportcolbs). He lists about 150 knives per week, every week for well over 10 years now. I believe he works alone. 150 per week is a huge amount of picture taking & knife packing up for shipping. He buys knives from collectors and pays higher than many other knife sellers. On some knives he looses money and overall he is not making a fortune. If you worked it out on an hourly basis it's not a very good wage.
I agree there are some knives that he knows are 'not right' and he lists them without alerting others as to the possible 'issues' (e.g. replaced blade, assembly of unrelated parts, etc.). But he does provide good pictures. He does not use photographic tricks to hide things. And, if you don't like the knife you can return it for full refund, no questions, no hassles.
Bill may not be a Stellar Seller Of 100% integrity, but nor is he "a crook". He is a hard working guy, making a living from dealing in knives who is not adverse to making a profit from someone's lack of knife knowledge.
I have received some excellent knives from Bill for well under usual market value. When you buy knife collections there is likey to be a 'gem' or 2 in there somewhere. When i look through Bill's listings i look for these 'gems' and then i might bid for the one's that seem to be flying under the radar of other collectors.
I say cut the guy a little slack. If you want to go after real crooks how about all the investment bankers who paid themselves millions in bonuses after the financial crash of 2008 which they engineered. In perspective Bill is not that bad !
Live and let live.
kj

The colored font I provided in your above quote pretty much says it all Roland. Your words, not mine and they seem to mirror what others are saying in this post that you are disagreeing with. Can't keep defending him with your own admission I referenced. Well, I guess you can if you wish to but further efforts to defend someone else action beyond that does not hold water with me.

Pretty sure 100% integrity is not even an argument at this point.

Jerry

[edge213]

150 knives per week for well over 10 years is over 78,000 knives......and he can't tell real from fake......bull@#*^

[kootenay joe]

Integrity is like pregnancy, you either have it or you don't. There are no degrees or percentage of integrity. To me, my integrity is most important. For Bill Swan such is not the case. I agree that he sells knives that he knows are not right and does not clearly state this in the description. He does accept returns for refund, no hassle, which is good but does not change the integrity status.
My disagreement with what others here say is just a matter of degree. I think people dump on him excessively and then others with no personal experience pile on unfairly and group him with other sellers whose business is largely fakes.
I don't expect people to be perfect. I think the 'trashing' Bill receives is out of proportion.
kj