Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

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Toejammer
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Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby Toejammer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:02 pm

I've had these two Camillus blanks for awhile, but never did anything with them because I'm not sure what part of the process they were at before production stopped. (post heat treat /pre grind ?) The large one seems to be untreated, since I can bite on it with a file, but I'm no smith and I'm really not sure. The little stainless one I haven't file tested.

My question basically is, are they from the last batch before Camillus shut it's doors ? And which model would the stainless fit in ? (pretty sure it was for some commemorative blade) Can I grind the profile on these as is, or will they need heat treated after ? Thanks !

9340

9341

9342
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#goldpan
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby #goldpan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:35 pm

Luck dog! ::tu:: ::tu:: I can't answer your questions but I wished I had a couple of Camillus knife blanks! :mrgreen: Hope you get your answer. Post pics of them when they are done please!
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby orvet » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:20 pm

I am doing this on my phone so I'm not seeing it as good as if I was on my computer.
The top knife appears to be a Camillus Mark II fighting knife, it is the same knife as the Kabar fighting knife issued to the Marines in WWII.

The second one seems to be a Jet Pilots knife blank.
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby Toejammer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:30 pm

Thanks guys !

Dale - any chance you could take a stab at what stage of the process they were ? The pilots knife seems to already have a profile, but the Mark II doesn't even have a plunge line yet. A file test on the Mark II digs in, which makes me wonder if it hasn't been heat treated yet.

I just wanted to know if I can finish the grinding process, or will I need to send them out for heat treatment ? In which case it may not be worth the expense for just one knife.

Mike
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tallguy606
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby tallguy606 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:00 pm

Not to hijack this thread, I hope. Someone educate me -- wouldn't the grinding, tang stamping, etc. be done BEFORE heat treating? Metal lots easier to work then.....

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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby muskrat man » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:04 am

MKII blank is not tempered

JPSK may be tempered since it is stamped ground and looks at least partly finished.
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby Toejammer » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:03 am

muskrat man wrote:MKII blank is not tempered

JPSK may be tempered since it is stamped ground and looks at least partly finished.


Thanks MM !

Kind of what I figured, but needed to hear it from someone w/ more knowledge than me. Looks like I'll finish the JPSK then, and see if I can't trade off the MkII. Just not cost effective to send out 1 blade for heat treat.
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby orvet » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:20 pm

I’m surprised the Mark II is not heat-treated. I asked Phil Gibbs, (from Camillus), whether the blanks were heat treated before or after they were ground. He said they were all heat-treated prior to grinding. The big German machines they used to grind the blanks used a liquid coolant/lubricant to keep the blanks cool while they were being ground. He said it’s about the only method that is economically feasible in a large manufacturing environment. Otherwise, there is too much warping of the blades that are ground first then heat-treated.

I have quite a few Camillus and Schrade blanks, some ground and some not, but most all have been heat-treated. Your blank could be ground and then heat-treated. I think the last time I sent a blank out to be heat-treated it cost about $20. There are a lot of knife supply houses now that do heat treating; K&G I know does heat treating and I believe Jantz does as well.

Trying to grind hardened blanks on a belt sander would be a slow and expensive process. Slow, because you would be constantly dunking it to cool the blade and expensive because the hardened steel is going to chew through your belts.
I suppose a person could anneal the blanks, then grind them and then have them heat-treated again. Although, I think that would depend on the type of steel in the blank. My understanding of the process is pretty limited, but I think a lot of steels can’t be annealed and re-heat-treated without damaging the structure of the steel.
Muskrat man may know more about that subject than I, and one of the bladesmiths here on AAPK could probably answer that question as well.
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby muskrat man » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:17 pm

That one probably got stamped out and never made it to HT Dale.

Grinding tempered blanks actually isn't that bad, I've ground several out on 2x42" grinder so someone with a 2x72" it should be a cinch. I ground some Schrade blanks that were 5 or 6" blades and could grind them out in under an hour most around 30-40 minutes.

At any rate I have some schrade pocket knife blade blanks that are annealed, they never got tempered, those are 1095 and small so are pretty straightforward to heat treat in house.

Generally speaking American companies HT the blanks and grind them on cooled grinders as you mentioned Dale, German companies (for the most part) ground then HT their blanks that is why it is so often you'll see older buck creeks, german eyes, etc that are mint condition with subtly "bent" blades. They aren't bent, they warped during HT, kind of interesting the different methods various cutlery companies used. A lot of the german blades were forged to some degree too which put more stress In the steel and probably contributed to some of the warping.
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Toejammer
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby Toejammer » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:35 am

muskrat man wrote:Grinding tempered blanks actually isn't that bad, I've ground several out on 2x42" grinder so someone with a 2x72" it should be a cinch. I ground some Schrade blanks that were 5 or 6" blades and could grind them out in under an hour most around 30-40 minutes.


So, my little 1 x 30" Dremel is gonna get a workout, huh ?? ::rotflol::

Actually, I did put on my big boy blacksmith apron and went to town on the Jet Pilot knife. I researched a few pics on Google and found the Marbles, Ka-Bar, and Camillus all had different grinds. So I went with the flat ground Camillus w/ the swedge. Started at 220, then went 320, 600, 800. Honestly, it wasn't as hard as I thought, I just eyeballed my degree, and used thumb pressure while pulling it through. I did the edge on the platen, and the swedge on the freespace between the top roller and platen.

I'm not proud enough to show it off here just yet.... got to get my wife to double check it to see if I got all the wavy parts fixed. :mrgreen:
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orvet
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Re: Camillus Fixed Blade Blanks - ID ?

Postby orvet » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:24 am

Good for you, nothing ventured, nothing gained!
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