All About Pocket Knives

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:41 pm**

I know this is an older thread but I want to jump on board and thank you for doing it. It answered several of the question I've been struggling with for a few months now. It also begged a few new question for me:

1. What is a "pin spinner" and where do I source one?
2. I've been getting the brass pin stock from my local True Value too but where can I get the nickel silver pin stock?

Thanks again!

BC

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:40 am**

A pin spinner is used to finished and shape pins, especially on bone handles.

Here is one place where you can get the desired items:

http://www.knifemaking.com/product-p/kv250.htm (This is Jantz Supply)

There are other places you can buy this same stuff, or maybe even get better quality, I don't know.

Some of the guys have made their own pin spinners with a set screw.

This will get you pointed in the right direction though.

Make sure to share some pictures of your work. We like knives.

Glenn

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:08 am**

So brass pins are ok to use on the blade pivot pin? I would have thought they would be a tad soft and you might be better off using something harder. Also you used 1/16' pins and state that the pins you removed were .070"........ 1/16" pins are .063" so you have .007" slop correct? So when you peen the pin, the slack is taken up in the hole in the blade or not? I fullt understand that you need a spacer in between the blade and the liner otherwise the blade will jam when you peen it.

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:29 pm**

Bearbear wrote:So brass pins are ok to use on the blade pivot pin? I would have thought they would be a tad soft and you might be better off using something harder. Also you used 1/16' pins and state that the pins you removed were .070"........ 1/16" pins are .063" so you have .007" slop correct? So when you peen the pin, the slack is taken up in the hole in the blade or not? I fullt understand that you need a spacer in between the blade and the liner otherwise the blade will jam when you peen it.

I used nickel silver for the pivot pin; the pin through the bolsters and the pivot hole in the blade. On such a small pin I think brass would be too soft. However, Buck uses a much larger 1/8” brass pin on some of their 110 models, but since it is so much larger there is not a wear problem (at least not that I have ever seen in a 110.

The .070” brass pins were for the rocker pin (that holds the spring in place) and the end pin that holds the back end of the handles & spring in position.
In step 7 of taking the knife apart, I used a 1/16” pin punch (see pic #5) to drive the rocker pin out of the knife.

In the Reassembly step #1 you will see I used .070” brass pins. I replaced the .070” brass pins with ones the same size.

If you have any more questions just post then up here.
I am always happy to answer questions for people learning to work on their own knives.

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:09 pm**

To my understanding, you don't want an exact tight fit with the pin on the spring rocker hole or the blade tang pivot hole. You want there to be a little slop so that those parts can move just a little bit, otherwise I think you would put undue stress and wear on those pins.

But, I could be understanding that wrong...

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:39 pm**

A lot of that depends on the handles, Glenn.
When working with bone, ivory, some woods and other brittle handle materials you should have the holes in the handle material itself oversized so that when you peen the pin, or spin a head on the pin, there is room enough for the pin to expand so that it does not crack the bone.

However, if the pin is too much undersized from the hole in the spring & liners you can have enough play that it does not properly tension the springs. This results in weak snap.

In some cases you may have to drill a larger hole in the bone itself while leaving a smaller hole in the liner in order to get the springs tight and not crack the bone.

I have one like that I am working on now. I have cracked the pile side bone twice now!

Posted: **Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:47 am**

Dale, yep I have another question, you used a .070" pin on the blade pivot same size as the one you removed. Where would I get such a pin, presuming that is the size required, I thought they were only available in 1/16", 3/32", 1/8" etc?

Posted: **Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:46 pm**

Not to be cryptic, but pin stock is where you find it.

In other words, while it isn't exactly everywhere, it is more common than one would first think.
Brass pin stock is probably the easiest to find. I get most of mine through my local Ace Hardware Store. Most of it they carry in 3’ lengths and sell for less than you will pay for 2’ of the same brand from other sources. I have also found a good supply of brass & stainless steel pin stock at my local True Value Hardware stores as well.

Many hobby stores, both online & local, will carry brass pin stock, sometimes stainless steel and occasionally a limited supply of nickel silver.

The best variety of sizes of nickel silver pin stock that I have found is at Jantz Supply. I find their website somewhere between abysmal and impossible to use, but if you call them and ask for a print catalog you can see the sizes they have.

Here is a link to a thread I posted some time ago on sources for pin stock:
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 37&t=23455

When I must have a certain size pin stock and don't have anything close to the proper size, I will turn down a piece of larger stock by chucking it in the drill press and taking it down with a file & sandpaper to the proper size.
Another method is to chuck the stock in a drill and spin the stock against a running belt sander. That takes it down fast, but it easy to take it down too far unless you are careful. It takes some practice to get proficient at this method.

Hope this helps.

Posted: **Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:46 am**

Ok thanks for that I will have to enquire over here and see who has pin stock in ctock. I shall remember your suggestion on how to size it. Bear.

Posted: **Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:19 am**

BB, I forgot you are in Australia.

If all else fails let me know and I can ship some pin stock down there to ya'.
The shipping will make it pretty dear though, but what ya' gonna' do?

If you do happen to find some nickle silver pin stock that is 11 gauge (wire gauge) which is .090" =/- .002, please let me know.
I have been looking for some for a long time! I cannot seem to find any of it anywhere.

The one jewelery supply place that listed it is now out of stock.

Posted: **Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:04 pm**

Dale, yep Australia

we love it here. I get over to the USA every other year hunting so I can look around when over next year. Postage; actually it is cheaper for me to have a knife sent from the USA to Australia - average $3 - $4 than it is to have one sent from 20 miles down the road here ($6.60). So sending some pin stock to me would only be a few dollars I am happy to send you some $ up front. If you wish to send me a few left over pieces that you don't necessarily want. We do not have a knife supply here that has pins stock unfortunately. Enjoy your day!

Posted: **Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:55 am**

Sorry, new guy here. I haven't been everywhere in all the different threads and this was close to the top so I just wanted suggest one possible source that may or may not have been thought of. If it has...never mind.

Welding supply shops will have nickle/silver brazing rod, brass brazing rod, pure silver brazing rod, and quite a few different sizes.

Sorry to drag this thread out of the grave.

Randy/the new guy

Posted: **Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:32 pm**

No problem Randy, there is a lot to read here.
Here is a good thread devoted to the topic of where to find pin stock:
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 37&t=23455

Posted: **Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:59 pm**

Thanks orvet.

Still treading lightly as I've been banned from a few sites for the simple act of speaking out of turn or posting a simple suggestion in the wrong place.

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:06 pm**

Randy wrote:Thanks orvet.

Still treading lightly as I've been banned from a few sites for the simple act of speaking out of turn or posting a simple suggestion in the wrong place.

I think we are less sensitive to that on AAPK than most forums.
The things that will get a member banned here are spelled out in the AAPK User Agreement.
Most of the infractions that will result in banning are contained in the following excerpt from the User Agreement:

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “All About Pocket Knives” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “All About Pocket Knives” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “All About Pocket Knives” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

Posted: **Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:57 pm**

It's sooo much healthier for you guys to see this emoticon than it would be for you to see me doing that in person!

Posted: **Fri May 12, 2017 1:33 am**

orvet wrote:Not to be cryptic, but pin stock is where you find it.

In other words, while it isn't exactly everywhere, it is more common than one would first think.
Brass pin stock is probably the easiest to find. I get most of mine through my local Ace Hardware Store. Most of it they carry in 3’ lengths and sell for less than you will pay for 2’ of the same brand from other sources. I have also found a good supply of brass & stainless steel pin stock at my local True Value Hardware stores as well.

Many hobby stores, both online & local, will carry brass pin stock, sometimes stainless steel and occasionally a limited supply of nickel silver.

The best variety of sizes of nickel silver pin stock that I have found is at Jantz Supply. I find their website somewhere between abysmal and impossible to use, but if you call them and ask for a print catalog you can see the sizes they have.

Here is a link to a thread I posted some time ago on sources for pin stock:
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 37&t=23455

When I must have a certain size pin stock and don't have anything close to the proper size, I will turn down a piece of larger stock by chucking it in the drill press and taking it down with a file & sandpaper to the proper size.
Another method is to chuck the stock in a drill and spin the stock against a running belt sander. That takes it down fast, but it easy to take it down too far unless you are careful. It takes some practice to get proficient at this method.

Hope this helps.

Not sure I'm replying correctly, new to the site. I work with mineralized bone and "fossil Ivory's almost exclusively and found if you use a jantz supply # 51 number drill bit ( .067 ) it works perfectly with brass or nickel silver 1/16" ( .0625 ) pin stock. Buy the 12" rod stock, the 1" long pins are cut from a huge roll and have a slight curve to them.

Posted: **Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:48 pm**

Thank you so much for the pictures at first. Where can I buy a Spring Compressor( Camillus type knife vise) and is that Micarta or leather in the Spring Compressor.. What type single edge razor blades have yall found to be the best to cut pins. I took and clamped a 1/4 inch piece of steel on a steel plate and then used a magnet to hold the razor blade to cut the first pin. Red

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:29 am**

Sorry I missed your post Red, but I see you found the Camillus knife vise in my store.

As far as the razor blades, I use the kind made for utility knives. The thin flexible ones for scrapping paint off windows are too thin to cut the pins.
The brand doesn't seem to matter too much, though I did find a bargain brand that was no bargain because it too twice as many of them to do the job. The Stanley blades worked well, not sure where they were made but they work good. Sometimes I can cut all three pins with one blade with some care and a bit of luck.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:06 pm**

I have a question that two separate threads brought to mind. The first thread was the Stone handle material, and the second was Tapering bolster holes.

As an example image I found Tapered pin stock in many different metals. I guess they are pricey but I can see a huge benefit in using them in handles. My thought is fitting the taper thru from the outside, and doing the peening or silver soldering, and flush finishing on the liner side.
In this method you will have perfectly flush outer pins, and presumably less stress, and chance of fracturing brittle handle materials.

Any thought(s) on this as a usable process?

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:43 pm**

The first thing that comes to mind is that it is an unnecessary expense.
The second thing that comes to mind is you will see a great increase in the number of cracked handles because if the tapered pin perfectly fits the holes then the first time you put the hammer on the end of the pin to peen the pin you will be exerting outward force the entire length of the handle material.

I make sure I have at about 0.005” clearance between my pin and the wall of the hole through a bone handle. Sometimes even more because when you tap the end of the pin to peen it, it can swell further down the pin. All of the outward pressure is not contained at the top where I want the head to form, but some of that pressure is directed outwards further down the hole and that’s why I always say drill a hole that is larger than the pin stock I am using.
For example for a 1/16” pin I use a #51 drill. The 1/16” pin is 0.0625” and the #51 drill is 0.0670” – this allows 4 ½ thousands clearance. This is adequate for a 1/16” pin but if I were using a 3/32” pin I might leave a little more clearance than 5 thousandths especially if it is a brittle material like bone and most especially if I were peening the head of the pin instead of spinning it.

Those are my initial thoughts on the subject.

Posted: **Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:35 pm**

I 100% get your points, and have thought about them before posting the question.

Assume your taper, (in your handle material) and pin match exactly down to the original pin hole in the liner, and your material is a hard stone that can not tolerate pressure. Let's say quartz crystal. Setting (gluing) the stone, and inserting the pin thru the handle into the liner to be silver soldered "could" be the easiest, and dare I, best way to set a brittle material. Maybe?

For softer materials I agree that this would be a lot of effort, and expense (tools, material, time), and why re-invent the wheel?
For brittle materials I see this as a plus but I have more thoughts than experience. That's why I post my thoughts.

Posted: **Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:31 am**

americanedgetech wrote: Assume your taper, (in your handle material) and pin match exactly down to the original pin hole in the liner, and your material is a hard stone that can not tolerate pressure. Let's say quartz crystal. Setting (gluing) the stone, and inserting the pin thru the handle into the liner to be silver soldered "could" be the easiest, and dare I, best way to set a brittle material. Maybe?

I guess my question would be; Why do you want to use a material that cannot tolerate pressure as a knife handle? The first time it gets dropped on a hard surface the pressure created from the shock of the drop will break the handle.

Why would you go to the extra time and effort, (which in manufacturing equals money), to use such a fragile material that the knife could never be an EDC?
A knife like that would be a safe queen only. If you you’re making a safe queen just glue the handles on and don’t worry about pinning them.

If you really believe that method will work the best, then do it, but unless you are going to use this method then this has only been an exercise in mental gymnastics! All the what if this, and what if that questions are fine and dandy if you are going to using those methods, such as tapered pins for handles. But if you’re not going to use those methods it’s a waste of time for everyone.

Cutler’s have been using round pins for hundreds of years and they work perfectly well.
Why beat your head against the wall to reinvent a more costly wheel that may or may not work?
Especially when it will likely be cost prohibitive from a manufacturing standpoint?
It doesn't make sense to me.

Posted: **Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:51 am**

Good points for sure.
It's that stone handle knife that set me thinking about this, and yep, I have the seller with the tapered pins bookmarked.
They are actually for clock repair. He sells a hundred assorted sizes for around 15 bucks on FleaBay

Bill DeShivs said something that stuck with me. (paraphrased) "Learn all the methods, and use the ones you feel comfortable with."
You've noticed yourself that I analyze everything until I throughly understand the process, and the forces at play. Part of my process is looking for improvements where (most often) they are not needed but they still may be an improvement.

I get the safe queen analogy and for sure I'd like to build myself one. After all it will most likely be less fragile than a dropped cell phone, and it'll cost me far less.

In fact I'll make that a personal challenge for myself. A quartz crystal handled folder.

I appreciate your patience, and your input Orvet. I know I have a long way to go.

Posted: **Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:46 pm**

orvet wrote: ↑Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:46 pm Not to be cryptic, but pin stock is where you find it.

In other words, while it isn't exactly everywhere, it is more common than one would first think.
Brass pin stock is probably the easiest to find. I get most of mine through my local Ace Hardware Store. Most of it they carry in 3’ lengths and sell for less than you will pay for 2’ of the same brand from other sources. I have also found a good supply of brass & stainless steel pin stock at my local True Value Hardware stores as well.

Many hobby stores, both online & local, will carry brass pin stock, sometimes stainless steel and occasionally a limited supply of nickel silver.

The best variety of sizes of nickel silver pin stock that I have found is at Jantz Supply. I find their website somewhere between abysmal and impossible to use, but if you call them and ask for a print catalog you can see the sizes they have.

Here is a link to a thread I posted some time ago on sources for pin stock:
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 37&t=23455

When I must have a certain size pin stock and don't have anything close to the proper size, I will turn down a piece of larger stock by chucking it in the drill press and taking it down with a file & sandpaper to the proper size.
Another method is to chuck the stock in a drill and spin the stock against a running belt sander. That takes it down fast, but it easy to take it down too far unless you are careful. It takes some practice to get proficient at this method.

Hope this helps.

Hi knife guru's ... I bought a Case small gunstock with the intention of removing the tiny pen blade. I'm reading all the information here (tremendous resource - thx to all for posting tips / methods). I'm a Case guy and need to order some pin stock. Can anyone please give me a few common pin diameters that I'll need for reassembling common modern Case patterns ? I was hoping to only buy a few sizes to start with & build up my stock if I take to this ... many thanks !!

John (PS - I'm sure glad for AAPK - I was going to try and just punch out the pins with the hopes of re-using them ... seems that's not possible as the pins need to be cut & would have been an expensive learning experience. Just want to confirm though - is it really THAT difficult to punch out the center & 2 bolster pins rather than cutting them to get the knife apart ??)

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