Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

This forum is dedicated to the discussion and display of old knives. The rich history of all the many companies that made them through the early years will be found here as well as many fine examples of the cutlers art. Share pictures of your old knives and your knowledge here!
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lt632ret
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Actually the only place around here that I know of with a few of these hanging around would be the Walden historical society about 3 miles down the road. Unfortunately the only time they are able to display and present a lot of the wonderful stuff that they have managed to collect over many years, is but a few days a year such as Walden day and a few holidays. They of course had a head start in collecting artifacts. They have been around many years still if you do get a chance to visit or are in the area on one of those days they do have many nice represenative items from there rich cutlery past. I know you are wondering why we have not joined forces, suffice if to say that it just never worked out. Still you can always give them a call and I believe they have a web site. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by orvet »

Great stuff to know LT! ::tu::
Here is a link to their web site: http://thewaldenhouse.org/

I found this page there amusing. A patch from from The Walden High School that features an open knife in the center of the patch.
It seems the good folks of Walden are proud of their cutlery heritage and rightfully so, IMHO.
http://www.adprose.org/waldenhouse/Hist ... teries.htm

If you scroll down this page you will find some pics of a talk LT gave to the Historical Society about the history of the knife industry in the Hudson Valley. I wish I could have been to that one.
http://www.adprose.org/waldenhouse/phot ... events.htm

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by edgy46 »

Video of parser being used. I do not have the ability to post a link, but if you go to the latest roundtable thread the last post by Smiling Knife has a link to a video of Trevor Ablett making a knife. To the right there is a list of other related videos. down this list is a video of a parser being used. Maybe someone can post a link. There are quite a few very interesting videos about knifemaking on this website. (youtube)
An uncontrolled accumulator. ::shrug::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by philco »

edgy46 wrote:Video of parser being used. I do not have the ability to post a link, but if you go to the latest roundtable thread the last post by Smiling Knife has a link to a video of Trevor Ablett making a knife. To the right there is a list of other related videos. down this list is a video of a parser being used. Maybe someone can post a link. There are quite a few very interesting videos about knifemaking on this website. (youtube)

My computer won't allow me to play the video to make sure I have it right but here is the link Edgy is referrring to...............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlF6OTED ... re=related

If someone will be so kind, please let me know if this link works for you.

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Yes indeed it worked fine thankyou. Also if you look back I had posted the pics of the templates used on the Geo Schrade machine and now the function of the proto tool I posted seems a bit more clear as i had mentioned one of the cutting tits is broken off the point of that tool but now its use is clearer. Thankyou LT.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Chase »

LT,

I wanted to publicly thank you for your hospitality and tour of your home and the temporary museum. My Mom and Uncle Harold were impressed, as was I. We thank you for taking the time to share your treasures with us and I look forward to a future visit when I have more time to spend discussing knives!

Fellow AAPKers

...I strongly encourage you to take the trek to Wallkill NY to visit the treasures that LT has and enjoy LT's company as well. He has a vast amount of knowledge and shares whatever he can!

Astounding is the word that comes to mind!

Thanks again

Tom
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Thanks Tom it was great to see you . I wish we would have had more time. Thinking over your visit there were many things that came to mind which we never got to perhapes next time. I am glad you found the experience enjoyable. Again to anyone with an interest give me a call and I will try to help set up a time for a visit. Feel free to email or call sometimes I am out of town usually at a poker table so please try to give me some time if possible. Actually Tom picked an excellant time to come over since I had just gotten back from Atlantic City the day before and I was particularly clean having taken a shower at the hotel and a bath at the tables. Strange thing about poker you can do everything right and still come out broke I guess that is why they call it gambling. As Jerry Reed used to say when your hot your hot when your not your not.

Perhapes I should sell some knives naaa not for a while but life is funny you never know. Actually I just bought a couple and another 1920 vintage Schrade display case. Could someone explain to me why while everything due to the economy seems to be going down in price, except the stuff that I buy which goes up. This display case which I do not have yet came from a small general store somewhere in Colorado I bought it at online auction from South Dakata. Can you imagine actually finding a small store like this and walking in to find one of these. I guess this happens I get emails and calls from people who find press button guardian models and all kinds of similar rare pieces they then usually tell me they paid 10 bucks to some little old lady who sold them the knife at a yard sale and then gave them a cup of tea and a piece of cake to go with it. Not me I pay through the nose. Oh well I guess a lot has to do with my demeaner, somewhat less than gentle look and beligerent attitude. In any event being on this subject got me thinking about an article I did several years ago about poker old artifacts, out of the way general stores ect. This was written in the fall of 2002. I called it The desert Legend . ( I used to write for a friend of mine gradus who used to publish a magazine called the AKA Automatic Knife Association ( switchblades ). I have added the attachments with this fictional tale. I thought this might add a little variation to my usual postings I hope you enjoy it and please consider stiopping in for a visit should you be in the area. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by edgy46 »

LT
Great tale ::tu::
An uncontrolled accumulator. ::shrug::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by orvet »

LOL
Great story LT!

Maybe you have more in common with Hemingway than you thought. :wink:

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by FRJ »

LT, I hope you don't have TOO MUCH in common with Hemingway!
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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Perhapes more than you might think however not in talent. What Dale is referring to is a comment I made to him, about my publisher once making a statment comparing my writing to Hemmingways, however then I remembered that it was not my writing that he said were comparable but rather my drinking habits.

One of the interesting little known parts of the Hudson Valley knife story involved a civil War general named Dan Sickles ever heard of him? Quite a character in history. He was Tom Bradleys commanding general at Chancellorsville. Now as you might recall Bradley was a bonified hero having saved many of his fellows by managing to get through the lines of shot and shell to bring back ammo for the north who at the time were being shot to pieces. Sickles was a controversial politician from NY originally one of the Tammany hall crowd, later Albany always an insider He married a 15 year old girl (he was many years her senior ). He was also quite a phalanderer however when his child bride sought solace in the arms of another man (in fact the son of Francis Scott Keyes famous auther of the star spangled banner ) he (Sickles shot and killed him ) and disowned his young bride . Sickles was charged with murder however the public via the tabloid reporting of the day made him a hero ( men could cheat but for a woman it was unacceptable ). Now (today) when a woman cheats the public sides with her and the husband pays alimony for the rest of his life . Anyway Sickles was the first very person to use the temporary insanity defense and was found not guilty. AHHH when the justice system worked . So Sickles was a hero until he took his young bride back in, then the public fickle as it is turned on him and he fell from favor. ( she was a harlot how could he ever forgive her? well she was young stuff and he was no kid ) Then at the start of the civil war he managed to get a generals commisssion. He gained further fame or infamy at Gettysburg ( he was I believe the only non west point general line officer from the north. He during ( I believe Picketts charge ) moved his men from his assigned position and to this day it is still argued if his insubordination saved or changed the battle for better or worse. He lost a leg at gettyburg ( Not his middle one so ) He ourlived his young bride and supposedly when appointed to the court of Spain as a US rep ( with one leg ) had an affair with queen Isabella.

Quite a fellow, He was Thomas Bradleys mentor and friend as I said he had been Bradleys commanding general and later ( decades when bradley became involved in NY politics ) he recommended him for the medal of Honor for Bradleys actions at Chancellorsville. I have always felt that he Mckinley and a few others had a hand in the 250,000 dollars which bradley suddenly came up with to make New York Knife the main maker of knives when Mckinleys tarriffs kicked in.

This is of course a cursory general mention of these points of history and I bring them up just to show some of the possible convolutions that helped create what occured. Please do not ask me for provenance, it as it refers to this history is long since gone. However if you get a chance google up old Gen Dan Sickles and Col Tom Bradley it is quite interesting to see and realize that the same things that motivate people and politicians today were the same then. Lust, greed, stupidity are still ( with a few possible exceptions ) the main criteria for office. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by FRJ »

Actually, what I had in mind was Hemingway’s tragic demise.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

I was aware of your meaning which is why i wrote the first line. However I believe to strongly in the golden rule , Tis better to give than receive and as such there are so many more deserving than myself . That and knowing how happy it would make some of these people is enough motivation to put off my slipping off this mortal coil as long as possible. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by W5RWU »

lt632ret wrote:I was aware of your meaning which is why i wrote the first line. However I believe to strongly in the golden rule , Tis better to give than receive and as such there are so many more deserving than myself . That and knowing how happy it would make some of these people is enough motivation to put off my slipping off this mortal coil as long as possible. LT
Well said my friend , I also can think of a few, That being said please stay motivated not to slip off.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Ramrod »

Very entertaining ::tu::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Hello I have been away the cards have not gotten any better. First I want to thank everyone for there support second I received a request for a backspring for an LB 7 but lost the email they were supposed to send me a pic of the broken one so that I could try to find the right one. please send the pic and a new email.

I thought that for a break in my usual routine I would talk about something a little different. When involved in a project like a knife museum building displays is on going. As I have mentioned finding the old displays is a project by itself. Just a couple of weeks ago I managed to locate an auction ( out west ) in South Dakata. They had a nice circa 1920 Schrade cut table top display case for sale. I have 2 other of these exact models they are highly sought after and while I have seen them go for less, a few years ago one of them with a couple of empty boxes sold for 2100 dollars. 15 years ago they might bring 300. These are getting quite rare ( note these were among the first to have wood cases the earlier ones were all glass. ) Upon contacting the auction house I was told that this one had been in an old general store in Colorado. they estimated the piece at 350 to 600 I won it on a telephone bid and ended up after buyers premium, shipping ect total just under 1000. OK I guess it could be worse I could be addicted to opium instead of these artifacts it might be a little more expensive. None the less I bought it. As I said I have two others of the same model however for some time I had been wanting to do a display of GOLD, SILVER, Pearl and metal sided Schrade and Flylock doubles. I felt that this case would be the ideal home for this grouping.
I received the display safe and sound about a week ago.

This being said the grouping of knives I wanted to put in it were quite nice Silver, gold and metalic flylocks large and small (2,7/8 and3,3/8 ) . Schrade sterling and nickle, pearles, and two minty small golds . The only thing really missing was a 740 GOLD which is the large 3,3/8" double which is sided in 12 K gold plate. They only made 2 gold models Large and small, this large one has, at least for me been quite elusive. I figured it would still be a nice display even without it. Then as the fates would have it while going through ebay for the 12th time last Thursday nite ( I usually get up during commercials and do a couple of pages ). There appeared a new listing apparently just listed. A buy it now, the ad went on to describe a duly marked salesmans sample marked 740 GOLD which had belonged to the sherriff of Walden in the 1920tys and that he (the seller ) was selling for the old deceased sheriffs grand daughter. Condition was pristene. Three, best offers had already been tendered. I knew that it would not be there in the morning so i bought it on the spot. Turns out the fellow only lived 45 minutes away so I got hold of him and picked it up on last Friday. It is strange that after many years of searching this is how all this took place but I must say similar things have happened in the past over the years. I have a couple of pics of the display and knives and will add one of the 740 as soon as i post this. I also just completed a JM ( Jackmaster ) series the last grouping there were four variations which I hope to post in a few days. Imperials jackmasters frontiers ect make nice collecables being relatively inexpensive they are pleniful colorful and have a rich history they make a nice entry point for the newer collector. LT PS You can bet they will not be inexpensive and pleniful forever.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by philco »

Excellent LT.............simply excellent! ::tu::

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by ozzie marie »

LT,

I was watching both the Table Top Display Case and 740 Gold Double. ::nod::

I knew these pieces of Schrade Cutlery History were well out of my reach, but am happy to know that they landed in the best place possible ::ds::

Thanks for sharing ::tu::

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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I spoke to the seller of the knife the next day when i picked it up . I inquired about the other bidders and what the offers were one offer was 50 dollars one was 550 and the other was in between I forget exactly. However he did tell me that after the auction closed he had several offers to buy it now and a couple of them offered to pay more than the buy it now if he would sell to them. Most people will stick to a sale when it is made but I do pay immediately so that there is no question of my being a legit buyer. I mentioned my recent expenditures to a friend of mine ( A couple of which I have not mentioned but it is Christmas and I do like convertibles ) any way his statment to me was that his mother used to say coffins don't have any pockets. I believe that the secret being happy is to have enough to be able to afford to eat, drink and do what you want but not so much that it no longer means anything to you, if I made millions my collection really would not mean much to me since all I would have to do is go out and buy whatever I wanted. To capture a piece I have sought for years and perhapes feel a small bite only makes the accquisition better. I suppose my enjoyment is increased because of all the years raising five kids on one salary when venison and home baked bread were staples we would even render the annual hog ( I would have raised by a friend ) you would put the hog fat in a number ten can on the wood stove and let it melt then save the lard to make bread. The kids would use a double handed cross buck to cut two 6 foot length logs ( I would get fire wood by log length, dump truck loads ) before going to school and I would split them when I got home from work. They say to really live you must almost die I guess to really enjoy a few dollars you have had to have been broke.
Perhapes these items will be left and will yet be able to be enjoyed by others. In the mean time the way I figure it is that they still are a better investment than a bank account. Hopefully I will be able to run out my string without ever having to cash this stuff in but, it isnt like I was throwing it all away on wimmen and booze. Although I do wish I could find the wimmen and could still drink like I used to. I mean I could afford waste some of it.

I always wonder about these people like these CEO's and athletes, famous stars ect. who make 20 or 50 or 100 million or more a year . Year after year what the hell do they do with it I mean if you make 20 million one year do you really need another 20 million next year and the year after what is there that they could spend it on that would still give them enjoyment. Be it a can of beans or caviar you can only eat so much of anything.

I do not think that these people realize that life is kind of like a game of monopoly you start the game and play until one player owns everything. At that point the game is over and you devide things up again and start over . When that happens in the economy all that paper will be just that, they will just use another medium or print different money and start the game over. LT PS Didn't Forrest Gump say something like that ( Oh that was Life is like a box of chocolates. )
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by orvet »

LT,
That 740 Gold is a stunner! ::tu::
That case is excellent, great finds, both!

Thanks for preserving more history and sharing it with us.

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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The weather is more than freezing and for the moment I am caught up on the mundane chores. Well I guess I should be doing the laundry. Instead I want to touch on a point I made in yesterdays posting about coincidences and things that happen out of the blue sometimes at the strangest times. One of the rarest of Hudson Valley tang markings is that of the Grahamsville cutlery co. If you take 52 to Ellenville hang a right at the light onto 209 travel past the old Napanoch Elementary school ( which is hopefully to be our permanent home for the Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife museum. ) This is just down the street from the old Napanoch knife company building ( still there ) go over the bridge ( of the Roundout creek which used to power the Napanoch knife company and runs from the roundout reservoir ( which supplies water to NYC ) hang a left and proceed 10 or 15 miles down the road you will come to the small community of Grahamsville. Grahamsville is one of the small communitys that survived ( not flooded over ) when the Merrimac dam was built as part of the NY water supply system . Unlike Eureka NY and old Neversink ( Neversink flats ). Grahamsville is a nice rural community now mainly known for its annual Little worlds fair day and the fact that it remains a dry town and does not allow the sale of Alcohol .

This being said Grahamsville once also produced knives. If you check Goins he writes that the Grahamsville knife company was from 1900 until 1920 . The fact is that no one that I know of actually knows the exact time these were produced but it certainly was not for that long. The 1900 is probably pretty close to correct. This was when Napanoch was around and so was Ulster so there were alot of cutlers in the area. The power supply was basicly the same as that of Napanoch only further north. In the Goins book is a fairly well known and relatively common picture postcard (not written on) of the old building which served as the knife factory. What we do know is that not long after being in business the factory burnt down and that was the end of production it was never rebuilt.

For many decades I have been trying to get information regarding this company. I have gone there to the annual fair. I have inquired I have researched and contacted people, I even played baseball there years ago while stationed at the Eastern correctional facility in Napanoch (just down the road ) I was even put into the stocks there which is the punishment they used to give out for anyone drinking in public ( ie a beer at the ball game ) . Non the less information has been scant in fact for many years I could not even get an example of one of there knives.

Now this brings us to the original subject of this narrative COINCIDENCE. After years of searching about 10 years ago I located a card ( the one Goins had in his book however this one was post marked with a date, ) Within a week from thousands of miles on the other side of the country I received another post card ( again from a completely different source ). This picture was also postmarked with a date. This second card showed a burnt down building and stated . This is what left of the G ville cutlery shop. I also during that same week found my first grahamsville knife a little jigged bone full bolster 2 blade sleeveboard . All of this within one week from 3 different sources thousands of miles apart. The date on the First postcard showing the building intact was Oct 12 1906, the date on the card with the burnt building was Aug 12 1907. Now it is possible that any supply of these knives may have been sold after this date they were no longer being made. It is not unusual for there to be mistakes in books or for information to be approximated so Goins date is no surprise. Jim Sargeant once told me that he had ( at that time ) out, 5 editions of his book and there were new mistakes each time. Needless to say that while a small point of history such as this is no big thing to someone such as myself it is the type of provinance of validation which I truly enjoy.

Over the years I have collected 2 more grahamsvilles one is in Celluloid which is also a two bladed sleeveboard, one in genuine pearl which while the handle is the same size and configuration is a 3 bladed whittler. It is nice to have been lucky enought to get examples of 3 ( perhapes the only ) materials which they were using for handles. All of this is as I said rather unusual especially that it all happened from three points of the compass and all within days and from different sources I admit that is pretty strange and certainly validates my point about coincidence. But you see that is not the really strange point of the story. Both post cards were written by the same person in 1906 and 1907 in Grahamsville and sent ( addressed) to the same person in East Orange NEW JERSEY duly postal stamped from both post offices. So what are the odds on two post cards coming back together to answer a point in history after 100 years. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by singin46 »

Very impressive collection you have there LT. I feel very fortunate to have seen them. ::nod:: Just incredible!
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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I received a couple of requests for some close ups of the knives in the Schrade case that I put on a couple of postings ago. Before putting the display away I snapped some shots of the rest of the knives some pics are redundant and I am not even sure if I got everything . I was in a hurry they are not great. However they should be fun to look at. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by orvet »

Great stuff LT!

I love the history lesson about Grahamsville Cutlery Co! ::tu:: ::tu::
I had not heard of that company before.

Please keep the history lessons, stories, anecdotes coming.

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by edgy46 »

What orvet said ::tu::
An uncontrolled accumulator. ::shrug::
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