All About Pocket Knives

This is from topic .Your help would be appreciated
http://allaboutpocketknives.com/knife_f ... 64&t=39930
Stay tuned, Grant, (shearer) has come up with s good method of researching tang stamps.
I won't have much time to do it until next week, but it may tell us something.
Or it may .......................................................................................................................... just be another annoying Schrade dead end!



But y'all can help out with this if you like.
Post close up picture of all the different 8OT tang stamps you have and the approx date they were made if you know it.
Duplicated info is fine, in fact it is desired so that we can verify them against one another.

What we are trying to do finds all the different 8OT stamps and try to fit them into a time line & figure out which were made at Camillus and when and see if there is a difference in the tang stamps.
If it all works out, we may have a method to apply to other patterns. It is a long shot, but I think worth the effort.

Here is an one example of what we are looking.Schrade NY USA 8OT
There is three stamps that are different. We think the top knife is the earliest
The second picture is back of the top knife.

Grant, would it be a good guess that the top two were made by Camillus (matchstrike pulls) and the bottom knife was made bny Schrade (straight pull). Or am I just bouncin' around out in left field and talkiin through my arse? It's okay. You can say it if it's true.

Jerry the Schrade Walben 8OT had a matchstick pull.
Camillus did make some blades for Schrade. Dale has some old Camillus order for Schrade .That is why Dale need to see the tang stamps.
It could be a waste of time .It could make a difference ,all we can do is try.
Grant

Here is a S-card from Camillus for the production of the 8OTs.
This S-card is dated 2-13-86.
The people in the factory making the knives used the S-card for the technical specs of the knife.
It tells them which dies to use, which type of pulls on the master blade (MS long), the type of blade steel (1095), the type of shield, the type of handle covers, the size & type of pins, etc.

What we need to do is find an example of this knife.
The sure tell of this knife from one made in the Schrade factory is that the Camillus knife will not be made with the Swinden construction. It will be made with pins through the bolsters. If the bolsters are tarnished or scuffed at the pins, the pin should be visible.

Dale the Schrade Old Timer Red Bone set had the Schrade NY USA tang stamp.
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 28827.html
February 1986 magazine so I would say made in 1985.
Grant

Shearer wrote:Dale the Schrade Old Timer Red Bone set had the Schrade NY USA tang stamp.
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 28827.html
February 1986 magazine so I would say made in 1985.
Grant

Also check here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... +collector

First Picture Top: Schrade Walden Bone1959-60
Second Knife Schrade Walden out of Safari Set 1963
Second picture Top: Keen Kutter Etched on Blade
Black Delrin handle.
Does not have the 8OT on back.
Third Picture :Yellow handle
Fourth Picture : Contact knife with IR Grinders on shield

Hi Dale,
I have a large collection of Schrade “8OTs, 935s and Buck 301s” knives, from a “1960 bone 8OT” to the last ones made in 2004.
My Buck 301s were made by Schrade from 1966 to about 1971.( I have all the Bucks 301s made by Schrade and Camillus)
Two of my 935 Primble knives came with an invoice dated December 1st 1971.
The Sample “ACB8” was made in 2003-2004 and was going into production in mid 2004 (They were never sold)
I have two “8OT Anniversary knives” one came in an “Anniversary tin with a money clip” one came with my “Anniversary Display”
My NIB “8OTY” is in the very late yellow box, I do not know when it was made or sold.
I have two mint sets of the 1985-86 Red Bone sets. (Schrade N.Y. tang stamp)
In all the 4” knives I have ever seen, most blades are stamped with many different stamps. However, only the U.H. knives stamped S.C.C. have been made without the Swinden construction. (UH886 - S.C.C. stamp showen below)
I do not belive Camillus ever made an 8OT, maybe they made some of the parts to make the 8OT.
If I can help, let me know what you are looking for; then I can go looking in un-opened boxes… Ken

Ken your 8OTY has the right tang stamp.The one I have has the NY stamp and no shield so it was made earlier. I purchased mine of Redtrout and he seem to have earlier or proto type knives.
Grant

The Old Timer with the 881 blade is something a little different.
The 8OT and 881 together, took some time to match up the same stamps –
I looked at 35 of my knives and found a number of stamps look very much the same. However, not the same.
I have about 3 of those older 8OTs, I would say they were about 1973-74 modles.

The Schrade 8OTs made around the time of the card Dale has showen above, would have come in a Blue box.

Shearer wrote:Here is an one example of what we are looking. Schrade NY USA 8OT
There is three stamps that are different. We think the top knife is the earliest
The second picture is back of the top knife.

Certainly the SCHRADE NY stamp with 8OT stamped on the pile side are older than ones with 8OT on the third line of the mark side. Also, the 8OT with the three line stamp and matchstrike are older than the ones with the non-matchstrike pull with the same stamps. With the standard production knives, this marking with the backside pattern stamping are generally dated from 1973 when Walden was removed from the stamp. It was not consistent from pattern to pattern, but is more commonly found on the Open Stock knives.

Certainly the SCHRADE NY stamp with 8OT stamped on the pile side are older than ones with 8OT on the third line of the mark side.

Seems to be a transition between the Schrade/Walden and Schrade / NY USA tang stamps. My guess, they were made for only a very short time, and I do not have one in the collection.

I did some looking and I have an 8OT with the SCHRADE/U.S.A. 8OT tang stamp, but it does not have the match striker pull of the Camillus made 8OT. After examination under a 45X microscope does not appear to have through pin construction and therefore must have been made with the Swinden system at the Schrade factory. Unless I (and others) are mistaken on the dating of the boxes, a knife made in 1986 should come in the tan box with the black stripe and the red “A Sharp Idea” banner across the corner.

Quote Orvet#
After examination under a 45X microscope does not appear to have through pin construction and therefore must have been made with the Swinden system at the Schrade factory.#

Dale I use the 45X microscope and if there is a pin in a knife you will find it in one of the bolsters .I have been checking out all my knives and I could say that I can pick a Swindon System from a pin system close to 100% of thee time.If it has a pin there is always something that gives it away slight variation in colour, rise in the metal.
The knife I dismantled the other day I knew it was a Swindon System.I dismantled it to show the evidence to others.
I was looking at some Master Mechanic knives on Ebay and I could see pinns through the bolsters
.They are listed under Schrade and Schrade Old Timer.I am guessing Camillus or Imperial.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111281463256?ss ... 1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111281464616?ss ... 1423.l2649
Bit off the track for 8OT, but interesting.
Grant

That is interesting Grant.
As you probably know, the Master Mechanic series was made for True Value Hardware. There are quite a few of the Old Timers made under the Master Mechanic name.

I definitely see the pin in the MM 18, but it is more difficult to see in the MM 108.
No doubt made in the Camillus factory. I recall having ever heard or seen anything about any of the Old Timer line being made in the Imperial factory in Providence RI, though I suspect they probably made parts there. On the other hand, I know a number of Imperial knives were made at the Camillus factory as well as the Schrade factory.

Good spot on the MM knives!

About the time of our bicentennial, Jim Parker commissioned Schrade to make a series of five 8OT knives in five different colors of Delrin, commemorating several Revolutionary War heroes. There was a plastic plaque which one could use to display them, I believe. I am fairly certain that I read a comment by Eric Albers (who was there) that Schrade was very busy at the time and sent that work to the Imperial buildings. I have a matching serial number set of those with all the bling which no longer fit into my collecting style. I suppose that I shouldn't be calling them 8OTs, but they along with the 881s and scrims and countless other "special" editions are basically the same.

orvet wrote:That is interesting Grant.
As you probably know, the Master Mechanic series was made for True Value Hardware. There are quite a few of the Old Timers made under the Master Mechanic name.

I definitely see the pin in the MM 18, but it is more difficult to see in the MM 108.
No doubt made in the Camillus factory. I recall having ever heard or seen anything about any of the Old Timer line being made in the Imperial factory in Providence RI, though I suspect they probably made parts there. On the other hand, I know a number of Imperial knives were made at the Camillus factory as well as the Schrade factory.

Good spot on the MM knives!

Dale I might be see things a little easier than other people .I don't know what size computer monitor you have .I have this 22" high definition monitor and you can see more details in a picture than a Ipad and my daughters 17" screen.
Grant

Hi Dale, thinking about an “8OT USA” knife with a match-strike pull.
I have never seen one.
The Parker knives from the five knife set have small match-strike pull.
However, the blade looks like it is made with Schrade+ steel.

Can anyone tell me how the match-strike pull was formed in the blade.. Ken

This old one BLOW is one eBay.

Sorry Ken, I don't know who they were formed.
That would be a good question for Tom Williams since Camillus seemed to use them more than Schrade.

On a hand-forged blade, the matchstrikers are cut with a punch (usually a hot punch, i.e., while the metal is hot). A similar method is used with a drop-forged blade. Later makers used a stamp, probably in a hydraulic press or trip-hammer.

The modern production method has the blanked blade (if fine blanking is used) or pre-cut blade (if working from bar stock) go through a series of dies where the tang stamp, pivot hole, and matchstriker or nail mark are cut in separate operations.

No matter how it is done, the operation displaces metal above the surface of the blade. This is removed during the grinding operations.

Thanks Jim!

I'm jumping in late to this thread. I don't collect Schrade; however, I do have a couple of edc's. These may or may not fit the discussion being presented. One I've had for several years and the other is somewhat newer. I'm curious if someone can date my knives. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The simple and obvious answer is:
The top knife was made in 1973 or earlier and the other was made after the name change in mid-1973, when the dropped the Walden from the name.

More specific that is a guess, but my guesstimation would be 1960s on the first one and 1980s or later on the second one.

DR_MAGOO wrote:I'm jumping in late to this thread. I don't collect Schrade; however, I do have a couple of edc's. These may or may not fit the discussion being presented. One I've had for several years and the other is somewhat newer. I'm curious if someone can date my knives. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The Schrade Walden 1960 to 1973.(first knives had bone handles 1959-60 )
Schrade USA from 1976-77 to close 2004
There was a Schrade NY USA 1973 to 1976-77.
Hope this helps.
Grant
(I see Orvet just answered before me)