Ebay knife

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Thought I'd post this related to the 28 bids thus far. What are your thoughts on this being an "original knife"? I personally see a couple of things that make me think it has been "tampered" with. I wrote to sportcolbs and Bill from the dusty duck replied that he looked it over and sees it as original.
What do others think? Don't know if I posted the ebay site correctly

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11051.m4 ... Tags=bu=bu

[jerryd6818]

It doesn't look like any "Harness Jack" I'm used to seeing. How in the heck can he decide if the knife is "right" if he can't even get the pattern name "right"

[RalphAlsip]

It doesn't look like any "Harness Jack" I'm used to seeing. How in the heck can he decide if the knife is "right" if he can't even get the pattern name "right"

Yeah, it's a Farmer's Jack. Esteemed AAPK member wlf has an interest (lol) in this pattern and likely even has a R3853 for reference.

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 53#p395340

[gsmith7158]

I could have sworn that was a farmer's jack but if Sporty says harness jack it must be so.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

My email to sportcolbs was to discuss it being re handled. Reason, the pins are both brass and nickel silver with the NS not being spun. Second the shield I thought should be a bar shield. We know the pattern number applied reverse the tang stamp demands very specific production indicators for reorder purposes. As well if you zoom in on the tang stamp it appears to have been photo shopped. This knife I think will bring a healthy sum by auction end but I think that if folks want to spend ther money on a nice original Remington knife it should be with a full knowledge of it being "original' and not refurbished. I personally see a large difference between the two. He also in the description states it has a punch for a tool. Weird?

[msteele6]

I personally don't see anything wrong with the knife.

It appears to have been cleaned which, in my opinion, accounts for the difference between the appearance of the tang and the rest of the blade.

The bone looks correct to me. The shield might very well have changed during the course of Remington's 20 year production of pocket knives and I do not believe that a change in pattern number would have been necessary.

Certainly, it's true that old Sporty has been known to play fast and loose with the truth, but it's also true that he sells many genuine knives. The most egregious case I remember was a Case knife that he sold, the pattern number was 63xx, whereas the knife was a two bladed knife, his description said something like, "I think it's genuine but am not sure". In my opinion, even rank novice knife collectors know that Case's pattern numbering system uses the second digit to indicate the number of blades, let alone someone who has sold thousands of knives over a period of tens of years, however, that is just my opinion.

I also believe that Sportcolbs uses some kind of template for his description and that possibly accounts for the obvious errors such as the "punch" blade and the "harness jack".

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

True, true and I see your point on the shield. Is it my eyes or does it appear to have both brass and NS pins? The smaller pins look brass to my eyes but the larger NS lower center pin doesn't appear to be spun as it would have been for bone handles. WLF (Lyle) shows a great example of this knife on "Where are all the Remington knife collectors" thread somewhere in page 18 of the thread.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Item sold for $338.33
Hope it will be everything the buyer wants it to be.

[orvet]

I am no expert on Remingtons but I have rehandled a few hundred knives and spun a few thousand pins.

#1
Looking at the handle pins, (the small brass pins at either end of the handle), they appear to be original to me. You can see the buildup of dirt, crud, and probably some rouge when the knife was buffed. If the knife was a rehandle, especially a newly rehandled knife I would not expect to see the buildup around the handle pins.

#2
The rocker pin, (the center pin that holds the springs in place), certainly appears to me to have been spun. I can see where the shoulder of the spinner has knocked down some of the bone around the pin, creating a circular pattern around the pin. I do note the pattern is not perfectly symmetrical, this too is perfectly normal when spinning a pin in place.

It is difficult to tell from a picture but that pin almost appears to have been over-spun. Sometimes if I have cut the pin a little bit too long and I spin it down I will get a little bit of the pin material that forms sort of the halo around the pin. When I blow that picture the halo is especially noticeable between the 3 o’clock and 6 o’clock positions on that pin. It does not appear to me to be a wide halo but it does appear that a little bit of the pin material has spun out from the pin itself.

It’s difficult to explain to someone who was not spun a pin before, but the rocker pin in the knife in this picture definitely appears to be spun to me.

Just my 2¢ worth.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

I appreciate your expert assessment Dale as a top notch knife mechanic/maker and will agree with you and others that they are spun, however when, if at all, did Remington use two different pin material on their production knives. To the very best of my understanding they did not do that on their production line knives. Several original Remington jobber's price lists that I have have detailed materials used for each catalog knife they sold and does not indicate use of brass, nickel silver or steel pin material together on the same knife it was one or the others.

[Remumc]

The back handle appears to have a repaired crack running through the messed up double spun small pin. Or is it my imagination? I used to have a nicer example of this Remington but sold it a few years ago and can't recall the finer details.

[Remumc]

And a question. If someone capable of rehandling this knife did more than clean it why would they used mismatched pins?

[orvet]

I will have to defer to your knowledge of Remington pin material, since I don’t know that much about Remington.

After making my first post I went to eBay and looked at the original auction for the knife. What I saw in some of the other pictures raised far more questions in my mind than the first picture. The pile side handle is a mess!

Despite the sellers claims that there are no cracks in the handles this obviously appears to be a crack right through the pin!

And what is up with the cobbled mess with that pile side handle pin? I am thinking this knife probably did not leave the factory like that.
I am not sure what happened, whether someone tried to install a second pin or if the first pen was bent over and someone tried to spin it down anyway. I believe I see the circular markings up to pin spinners not just one spinner as is normal.

Looking at the pile side I think it is probably original bone that someone tried to repair. If someone put new bone handles on that knife, why didn’t they just replace a handle if they broke it instead of trying to cobble it together?

I don’t think the bone on the mark side handle has been removed however the rocker pin may have been replaced. You noted it was nickel silver and the handle pins were brass and you said Remington did not mix pins on their production knives, so it stands to reason that the pin was replaced.

This knife has definitely been messed with though my best guess is the handles are the original bone.
At any rate, given all the problems I see in this knife I think the price it sold for is ludicrous!

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Thank you for your observations Remumc. Dale once again I thank you for your expert opinion/ assessment. For me personally I am a purest when it comes to "original" factory production made Remington knives. I think if someone is buying an "original" production Remington knife, it should not have been tampered with in "any manner" with the possible exception of light cleaning. I have met some sellers who refurbish a knife with original materials from another knife and believe it is considered an original knife when completed. That always blows me away. I think there is a real justified monetary difference between an original production made knife and a refurbished one. I can not answer the "why" questions on this knife but I do think it has been worked on and thus not original. Just my thoughts.

[Remumc]

I have seen many Remington jigged bone handles with the double head spinner marks but not with the pin damage this knife shows.

[Remumc]

Here is another that looks original for comparison. Looks the same to me?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REMINGTON-FARME ... SwNE5YW2x8

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

This second knife "looks" correct and original as the pictures present. Noting all 3 pins are same brass material, appear spun and clean. I see a large difference between the two knives in discussion. Blades have nice patina, tang stamp looks good as well as the stamped pattern number. Scales are beautiful and appear crack free. The blades are in fair to good condition high 80's or low 90% range. Most of these patterns have a bar shield, after consideration/ assessment some patterns produced with presented shield. The shield and bolsters are nickel silver and if we had the chance to see the liners I believe they would be of brass material as stated in Remington's Jobber's knife listings. Overall a beautiful knife!