Remington 5 Blade Sowbelly

[stockman]

I found this old Remington at a gun show. The fifth blade is there but I didn't open it. Everything was so
sloppy I was afraid I might get bit. No handle cover on pile side. I have no idea of what to do with this old
thing. All blades have the Remington tang stamp. As you can see someone thought about working on it
but stopped. Mark side handle cover almost gone.

Harold

[remington collector]

I sure do like it. I could give it a good home.

[stockman]

PM Sent

Harold

[singin46]

Looks like it was maybe a celluloid handle that had out gassed.

[stockman]

Its bone that is worn almost paper thin, almost transparent.

Harold

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Harold that is a rare knife you've got there. If the 5th blade is there and in as good a shape as the rest of the blades the knife in that condition could bring several hundred dollars. In mint condition some guides list it at around $5,000. There is one on Ebay at present that is around $3,500. As you know the R4283 scale were produced in bone and I believe that this is as well bone, that has seen a lot of wear. The shield is unique as well and if memory serves was only used on the sow belly models and on no other. You have a great find there my friend, have someone repair and bring her back to life... if not for use, for a great resale or valuable collection piece. Thanks for the look see!

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Just a smidgen more info.

Was first produced before the publishing of the Jan. 1st, 1929 Jobbers Price List, catalog No. C20.
According to this list the blades finish were Crocus polished and Etched. The handles were made from American Bone Stag, (cow bone). the lining, cap bolsters and shield were made from 18% nickle silver and
the scale Die number was 4250.
In that time period it cost the Jobbers $15.75 per dozen and the Trade price was $21.00 per dozen. You could find a picture and info on page 34 of the corresponding catalog. Again very cool knife!

[MrBlister]

Rocky . . . . I saw that sowbelly on ebay . . .
And frankly ...................
Well................
It looked fake or repro to me....
Would you appraise it as correct?
or could some of the REM whales
round here chime IN on this . ...
And............
Was there a 428 sowbelly (5 blade)
(no sheild) ever made???
It dont resemble the ebay knife
Thanks and HET in advance

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare-Vint ... 2ede89d3e7

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Dave, the one that we are referring to on EBay I suspect is correct but no assessment is as good as having the knife in hand! It's difficult for "most" to buy a knife at the price of $3,000 or more. It has been on the market for several years I think. Personally I think is is way over priced as it is. IMHO he would do better at about or around $1,800. Never the less, by his pics alone it looks to be correct. I would never buy at that amount unless I had it in hand and had other Remington cutlery collectors assess it as well!
To the best of my knowledge all of the Sowbelly patterns had that shield placed when produced. Of course there is always room for exceptions when the cutlery division of Remington was drawing to a close in the late 1930's.
Hope this helps Dave!

Edit: Went back and looked at that knife. It has been sanded and buffed within an inch of it's life. If you look at the tang on some of the blades you can see the heavy pitting and wear that cannot be reduced without affecting the stamps or pattern number. I see it as as heavily clean knife from the right period with original parts. Note the sheep foot blade is heavily worn as well the Spey blade is worn.

Edit: Remington R4274 3 blade Sowbelly with pearl handles of coarse had no shield.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

I swear this is maybe my last comment. The knife Harold has is "very" worn especially some of the blades so it does "look" different than the one on eBay. Harold stated it had a 5th blade I do not see but if it does have the pen blade it is correct to that pattern number.

[MrBlister]

ROCKY !!!! edit that post about yer last post on the subject

If that Ebay sow is correct... and Harolds is correct....
then is this'n (JUST landed TX) fake or ???????

are ya noticin a pic post trend here???
YEP.. ole Blistex dun found the
LOST DUTCHMAN mine fer REMINGTONS..
gunna be sharin a plenty a pics with ma frinds here..


hehe..

plse advise if i got shystered or not

thanks in advance

[FRJ]

Great ol' Dutchman 5 wheeler, Dave. Musta blowed all the dust ofen er.

[MrBlister]

thanks joe

[wlf]

Wow Blister,that's an amazing knife. That middle spring ,maybe it's the angle,doesn't seem natural? I know nothing about the blades. I wouldn't mind having it,even if it had been worked on,not saying it has.

Any farmers jacks in that mine,I'm panning.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Dave with your 1st posted question I suspected you had a pony in the race!
Just got in from work and at a quick glance a few concerns caught my eye. The die number is 4250. This I think refers to the set machine or hand jigging/tooling scale style for the knife. If you look at yours compared to the production jigging for that pattern number during that period your jigging,(even though very worn) is very different. Secondly, no shield. Third your Spey blade is "very" worn but is a Spey blade. The large blade should be a larger curved clip blade, your has been worn or broken and reshaped looks very odd to me. Remington was particular about their pins being spun I can't tell from your pic if yours are spun or not and should be nickel silver. I can't telll if it is that or steel pins. All in all you have a beautiful Sowbelly knife...is it true blue...only the shadow knows! Too many flags for me slows me way down in jumping for joy and saying one way or another if it's original at present and would call for IMHO a need for others to assess and give reflection. Because that pattern is a very rare pattern and holds such a high dollar value many knife Craftsmen who are extraordinary in refurbishing "may" have been at work here...not sure...hummmmmmmmm... Why dosn't it have a stamped pattern number? Was produced in the 1933-1935 circa. Depression years could account for an ink stamp and lack of shield. Could have been made for a group or Company promotion/employee giveaway? A lot of variables. Would love to hear from other Remington collectors on your knife. Side note, Remington had I think several other factories in the U.S. and abroad that made knives, this could be from one of those factories but I don't think the Remington Bridgeport factory produce one like this for reorder.

[MrBlister]

That giant ole spey blade or I guess what wud be the main blade
has "R428" stamped on it . . sound plausable???
Will try to post some pics, however its most faint

thanks.. Dave

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

The primary or main blade as I said is suppose to be a larger curved clip blade. Yours has been modified due to blade wear or it was broken at some point. I trust you on the stamp being as you say Dave. "Leaning in the direction" of it being original but still not "fully" sure!

[msteele6]

The second sowbelly looks like it might have had a shield at one time. There appears to be a hole in the handle where the shield was originally attached. That hole bears inspection to determine whether it originally held a shield on. Maybe an inspection of the inside of the liner?

Obviously the master blade is well short, and it appears from the description that the final "3" is missing from the pattern number, a close examination with a magnifiying glass may be in order there.

JMO

[MrBlister]

will git her outta the safe to check liner for sheild pin holes.. thnx

[MrBlister]

YEP . . .. steel was correct...
liner inspection on the mark side revealed
2 holes where obviously a sheild once fastened.
Tang stamp shows no evidence of a "3"
on the end but certainly could have been there once.

altho NOT a sowbelly.. heres another ole 5 blade.

HET

[wlf]

Nice early knife ,love those bone handles.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

It sounds like you have a winner on that sowbelly Dave! Congratulations on a great rare find. Keep 'em coming...awesome show!

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Resurrecting this thread related to the current knife on eBay, Remington sowbelly knife R4283 for sale. The seller is very careful and vague not to establish it as being manufactured by Remington in its description of origin or authenticity. Yet, he does an exceptional job in marketing it as a Remington R4283. He also puts in a very clever disclaimer stating he has very little to no knowledge of Remington knives but is selling the knife for $1,200.00. IMHO it is not an original production knife. I do believe that it has some original parts but there are several main giveaways as to why it is not. What do you think?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Remingt ... SwopRYbZ2r


P.S. Well 3-4 min. after I posted this, the knife was listed as being sold. HUmmmmmmm....

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Example of two main giveaways. Seller listed as carbon steel, however for a knife made in that era, blades have no patina ,no pitting no age marks at all. They are very "clean" for a knife that is 80-90 years old and carbon steel doesn't age in that fashion. Then there is the issue of the smaller clip blade... there isn't one it has been replaced.
Lastly if this knife was truly sold I feel sorry for the person who bought it thinking they have gotten a really great deal on a rare Remington knife that in mint condition goes for $3,ooo-4,ooo.

[have aknife day]

The ebay guy that sold that SOWBELLY has some amazing knives for sale!!