Remington Boy Scout production #'s

[RandyFew]

Does anyone have an idea about how many of the popular boy and girl scout knives were produced during 1923 - 1940? There seems to be a huge supply of the RS3333's. There doesn't seem to be that many of the girl scouts and 3 blade models. I know that there were several other official scouts also. The fact that there are so many remaining is a testament to their quality. Reccon how many Rough Riders will be around in 80 years?

[remington collector]

I've never read any numbers for scout knives but I'd guess in the hundreds of thousands. I've read that Remington produced over a million R1823's.

[knife-nut]

I remember reading somewhere that Remington sold their scout knives at cost. They must have really believed in the scouting program to do that. I wonder how many of us collectors have a fond spot for scout knives because we were scouts when we were kids.

[bestgear]

When Remington Cutlery Division was sold to Pal in 1940, 99.9% of the company's records were intentionally destroyed so data like manufacturing counts is virtually non-existent. And of course, anyone who worked at Remington would be minimally in their 90's at this point and not likely to have held the type of position where that data was made available.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Hummmmmm...I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ON THIS.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

With all do respect, I disagree that Remington "intentionally" destroyed manufacturing and or production records from the 1920's thru the 1940's. Remington is known for keeping records behind closed doors and well vested. Remington with intent did not avail that information to the general public for various reasons. In fact Roy Marcot who is the editor and president of The Remington Society as well as a few other selected and highly regarded board members from The Remington Society were allowed into the archive vaults of Remington quite a few years back and yes the organization of historical documents was in disaray but a tremendous amount of historical production documents were there and intact. I agree that some documents may have been lost in various transitions, fires or by poor physical management of said documents but I will never believe nor have I ever reviewed offical reference/ documents stating the intentional destruction of said documents by Remington, Remington UMC or Remington Dupont.
If you have official information that supports your post I would very much appreciate it if you would share. I am a active member of the Remington Society and have completed many hours of extensive reading and research on Remington's Cutlery divison. I would find if greatly informative and helpful for any new/old offical information regarding their cutlery production years.
Gratefully yours- AREMINGTONSEDGE



Research Team


THE ROOM THAT DOESN’T EXIST

Researchers who went to the Remington Arms Company facility in Ilion, New York prior to 1991 were given the official statement: “There are no Remington production records!” Visitors who pilgrimaged to Ilion were stopped at the museum director’s office and politely told that their quest was over… “as no records exist.”

What the researchers didn’t know was that the museum director was simply following orders from the top from duPont management – that didn’t want Remington workers “bothered” by researchers and student of firearms. DuPont’s philosophy was that “history doesn’t sell present-day guns.”

The ice would thaw in early 1991, when researchers Slim Kohler, Roy Marcot and Jay Lewis went to Ilion to study the Remington Museum’s pistols and rolling block rifles. On the fourth day of a week-long research trip, their devotion to things Remington impressed two Remington employees – Ken Green and Jack Heath – who did the unthinkable: they opened Pandora’s Box! The three researchers were told that they would be shown “the Remington records”, but if they divulged this secret to anyone, the door would be shut forever!As far as Slim, Roy and Jay were concerned, “This was the room that didn’t exist!”



Original photo of Jay Lewis, Roy Marcot and Slim Kohler, taken in early 1991 at the Remington factory in Ilion, New York.

Researchers Jay Lewis, Roy Marcot and Slim Kohler smile, because they were just shown the Remington records for the first time. (January 1991)

On that fateful day, the three wide-eyed researchers were taken to the top floor of a triple-locked area that was off-limits to all but a handful of Remington employees. What was revealed was a locked L-shaped room that contained decades old Remington production records, drawings, photographs and ledgers. Some were neatly stored in cabinets and drawers, but others were strewn about in no order what-so-ever. The trio were allowed only one hour in “the sacred place”, and then were ushered out… and warned again about keeping the secret.



Photo of Jay Lewis, Jack Heath and Chuck Decanic looking over the early Remington records.

Jay Lewis, Jack Heath and Chuck Decanic
looking over the early Remington records.
Photo of The Room That Doesn't Exist!

This view shows the disarray of the early Remington records in early 1991.


What Remington didn’t want was an unslought of looky-loo’s and tire-kickers clammering to see the records. Remington employees had neither the time, nor the inclination to cater to such unprofessional antics. So Roy Marcot put together a plan – to propose to Remington that a small number of serious researchers be allowed to return to Ilion to work on the materials – including preserving, categorizing, sorting and protecting Remington’s precious history.

The plant manager, John Winskie, himself a history buff, was persuaded to give Roy’s plan a try… as long as the team didn’t divulge Remington’s secret. And thus, the RSA Research Team was formed with the following initial members: Roy Marcot – Authority on Remington Rolling Block Firearms) Slim Kohler – Expert on E. Remington and Sons’ Pistols and Revolvers Jack Heath – Remington Arms Company Historian Leon Wier, Jr. – Authority on E. Remington and Sons’ Pistols and Revolvers Jay Huber – Expert on nearly all arms of E. Remington & Sons Jane Spellman – Director of the Herkimer County Historical Society

This team returned to Ilion in late 1991, to begin the difficult task.

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

Pictures that go with the article in my last post related to the Room that doesn't exist.

[bestgear]

Hi Rocky,

Good information to have here on AAPK, thank you for posting that. Mr. Marcot provided me with the following quote for a story I wrote for Knife Magazine on the Remington Heroism knife “Mr. Roy Marcot of the Remington Society of America believes that 99% of all company paperwork of Remington's Cutlery Division was not retained after the sale to Pal Blade Company in 1941". His quote was supported by Mr. Richard Shepler and Mr. Gordon Fosburg also of the Remington Society of America.

Maybe the records in the pictures were from the Arms Division and not the Cutlery Division? If you'd like a copy of the story I wrote PM me your email address ad I'd be happy to send you a copy. With Respect, Tom

[AREMINGTONSEDGE]

PM sent and thank you again for your spirit of sharing and your gained knowledge. I am stubborn in my old age and am struggling greatly with this belief. Retained, destroyed or misplaced. This is difficult for me to wrap my mind around.
p.s.
I have great respect for Roy but it isn't the first time we have had to agree to disagreed agreeably and exchanged different points of view.