Schrade 51ot G10 Scales

[Schradenut]

These two knives are a venture into a new area for Herman Williams. Here he takes the classic 51ot and added black/lime G10 handles to them.
One knife is a standard 51ot which has been fully customised by Herman.
The other was a standard 51ot which he remodeled and customised, both being beautifully cafted, specially towards the front bolster. The G10 is an incredible handle material which brings out beautiful highlights with their dark/light layered colours.
To me this pair are a testament to the very fine work this man can do. Just when i have reached the stage where i say "i have seen all the beautiful knives", along comes Herman and just blows me away with another fine example.
I am extremely fortunate to be able to secure knives of this quality. Herman does sell knives on Ebay for those that would love to own a special HW knife(electra_225).
Tony.

[tongueriver]

Snazzy! What is the difference between G-10, micarta and kydex? Me only know about bone, antler, heffalump toof and Delrin. Also, where is everybody, anyway? I guess I'll go hunting. Maybe someone will drop in by the time I get back.

[Schradenut]

Hi Tongueriver,
Sorry mate i have no idea on the difference in those materials. Herman has only just started using it, and the results are phenomenal, i think. I will probably get him to do some more covers in G10. I really love the layering after it has been cafted.

Like you, i was wondering where all the members are. I really thought with a couple of classic looking knives like this pair, that there would have been more interest. Not to worry, you were there my friend.
Tony.

[Sasquach]

Schrade + USA...

[Sasquach]

Schrade + USA...

[CheckSix]

Not a materials expert, but I believe G-10 is an epoxy laminate, hence why you can have layered colors. Micarta is also like this but not layered. Kydex is a high tech plastic.

Schradenut, those HW 51OT's are beautiful!! Envious!!

[Sasquach]

I apologize gentlemen. I thought I had posted my photos on the Schrade Legacy thread. I didn't realize that I had posted them on a model specific thread until I was browsing the forum this morning. I'm not sure how I did it but I suspect the Wild Turkey 101 had something to do with it.

I was going to delete them but couldn't figure out how to do that either.

So I hope that folks will enjoy the pics and that I didn't offend anyone......

[Sasquach]

I apologize gentlemen. I thought I had posted my photos on the Schrade Legacy thread. I didn't realize that I had posted them on a model specific thread until I was browsing the forum this morning. I'm not sure how I did it but I suspect the Wild Turkey 101 had something to do with it.

I was going to delete them but couldn't figure out how to do that either.

So I hope that folks will enjoy the pics and that I didn't offend anyone......

BTW, I threw in that last Camillus Sharpfinger because it's an ORVET custom.

[dweb1897]

Tony,
Some very nice knives you have...a beautiful matched set. The match on the file work on the back springs is great.

G10 is glass fibers and resin where micarta is cloth or paper and resin... usually. They are all pretty much the same thing, re enforced plastic, with the main difference being what is used to do the reinforcing.

unworked G10 1/4" thick

[Sasquach]

You're right dweb, the micarta and G-10 handle materials are laminates. Similar to pakka-wood or diamond wood they are thin layers of material laminated together with a polymer or epoxy resin under high pressure. The look and feel of the finished product can be manipulated by the choice of material being laminated. These products are usually very durable and long lasting. An industrial form of micarta made with burlap is used to make acid resistant tanks in the electro-plating industry. I have a piece of it that I plan to use as a handle material. On the down side, many laminate materials are so tough and hard that it is difficult to work them. However it has been my experience that the finished product is worth the added effort.

I felt that I owed you guys an on topic post after my ill-fated Schrade Legacy post.

[orvet]

Snazzy! What is the difference between G-10, micarta and kydex? Me only know about bone, antler, heffalump toof and Delrin.

G-10 is essentially micarta made from fiberglass. Very nasty stuff to breathe the dust.
You need a good system for dust extraction as well as a respirator when working with it, which is why I don't use it.
I also can't find respirators to fit my dogs, who like to watch me work in my shop.


Props to Herman, those are great look knives!
Congrats to you Tony for getting them!

[Darksev]

Posted earlier but my phone ate it.

HW is a serious inspiration to me. His work is one of the reasons I love working on old knives - he has great design aesthetic and tasteful execution of his vision.

For the curious about materials:

Micarta - Micarta is a trade name for Westinghouse Phenolic Composite material. It's basically a substrate (Canvas, Linen or Paper) that has been impregnated and surrounded by a phenolic resin compound and cured under heat and high pressure to form a solid material. Phenolic Formaldehyde resins were one of the first stable, synthetic materals, but it lacked structural strength. Curing it around a substrate created a material that became known as the "Steel of the plastics industry". Micarta is hard, dense, wear resistant, machinable, has limited water takeup and can be polished or left rough to afford different levels of grip. Paper micarta, with it's fine substrate, can be jigged like bone (with a little work) and take an almost mirror polish look like ivory. Overall It's a warm, rich material to work with, and has a pretty distinctive look. Because of the nature of the phenolic, the dust from grinding on micarta isn't super for you, so respirators are a good idea.

Here's a pair of Buck 703's that were redone in Ivory paper micarta, and Black Linen (notice the texture) Micarta

G10 - If Micarta is the "steel of the plastics industry" then G10 is the Titanium. It's similar in that it's a layered composite material, but G10's substrate is a fine woven glass fiber impregnated and surrounded by an epoxy material cured under high heat and pressure. It's stronger, lighter, and more rigid than Micarta. Some grades of it (FR4) are fire resistant. It's an electrical insulator, much like Micarta. If you're reading this post, you have G10 in front of you, as the Fire Resistant grade (FR4) is the "green circuit board" in your PC or phone. The epoxy material can be dyed during manufacturing to dozens of different colors. It has minimal water uptake when wet, is virtually indestructible as far as traditional handle materials go, and can be machined with reletive ease (it's tough on cutters through, because of the glass). It will polish to a gorgeous high gloss finish with a bit of work, or can be bead blasted to allow for grip. The dust from grinding on G10 is basically epoxy and glass, so nothing you ever want to breath in.

If you replaced the G (glass) in G10 with Carbon fibre substrate, you would have the knifemakers "i.e. solid block" Carbon Fiber. It's even lighter than G10, and more rigid, but slightly less resistant to impact damage (and a heck of a lot worse to work with, dust wise - both health and general crappiness)

Here's some polished G10 on a GEC from a long while ago, and some bead blasted G10 from my own 51OT rebuild not long ago

Kydex is something you will only ever see in sheaths, never handles. It's a low temperature thermoplastic, meaning it gets "floppy" like a thin, wet leather when heated, and retains it's shape when cooled down. You can hit a sheet of Kydex with a heat gun and litteraly mold it around a blade or gun to get a custom fit sheath or holster. It'll stay that way until it gets hot again (IIRC the forming temp for kydex is like 300f or something like that, but it can lose some of it's rigidity if you hit it with say, a hair dryer on high lol)

[jerryd6818]

Micarta is a brand name. It's competitor is Formica. They are both laminates. Manufacturers of these products use several different materials in the lamination process some of which are epoxy, paper, linen, canvas, fiber-glass, carbon fiber, etc. All under high pressure and heat.

Laminates have many uses, such as kitchen cabinet tops, electrical insulators, knife handles and much, much more. And they come in many grades G-10 is a grade of laminates.

"NP500CR (NEMA G-10) is composed of a woven glass fabric combined with a halogen-free epoxy resin
system. The product also offers superior physical properties and excellent electrical characteristics that are
maintained in high-humidity conditions. In addition, it is not flame retardant and meets NEMA G-10
requirements. Designed to withstand absolute zero temperatures, the product is manufactured to the NIST G-
10CR process specification for materials used in deep space and cryogenic applications. NP500CR complies
with the requirements of MIL-I-24768/2, Type GEE."

https://www.professionalplastics.com/pr ... aSheet.pdf

[tongueriver]

Posted earlier but my phone ate it.

HW is a serious inspiration to me. His work is one of the reasons I love working on old knives - he has great design aesthetic and tasteful execution of his vision.

For the curious about materials:

Micarta - Micarta is a trade name for Westinghouse Phenolic Composite material. It's basically a substrate (Canvas, Linen or Paper) that has been impregnated and surrounded by a phenolic resin compound and cured under heat and high pressure to form a solid material. Phenolic Formaldehyde resins were one of the first stable, synthetic materals, but it lacked structural strength. Curing it around a substrate created a material that became known as the "Steel of the plastics industry". Micarta is hard, dense, wear resistant, machinable, has limited water takeup and can be polished or left rough to afford different levels of grip. Paper micarta, with it's fine substrate, can be jigged like bone (with a little work) and take an almost mirror polish look like ivory. Overall It's a warm, rich material to work with, and has a pretty distinctive look. Because of the nature of the phenolic, the dust from grinding on micarta isn't super for you, so respirators are a good idea.

Here's a pair of Buck 703's that were redone in Ivory paper micarta, and Black Linen (notice the texture) Micarta
buck703_pair.jpg

G10 - If Micarta is the "steel of the plastics industry" then G10 is the Titanium. It's similar in that it's a layered composite material, but G10's substrate is a fine woven glass fiber impregnated and surrounded by an epoxy material cured under high heat and pressure. It's stronger, lighter, and more rigid than Micarta. Some grades of it (FR4) are fire resistant. It's an electrical insulator, much like Micarta. If you're reading this post, you have G10 in front of you, as the Fire Resistant grade (FR4) is the "green circuit board" in your PC or phone. The epoxy material can be dyed during manufacturing to dozens of different colors. It has minimal water uptake when wet, is virtually indestructible as far as traditional handle materials go, and can be machined with reletive ease (it's tough on cutters through, because of the glass). It will polish to a gorgeous high gloss finish with a bit of work, or can be bead blasted to allow for grip. The dust from grinding on G10 is basically epoxy and glass, so nothing you ever want to breath in.

If you replaced the G (glass) in G10 with Carbon fibre substrate, you would have the knifemakers "i.e. solid block" Carbon Fiber. It's even lighter than G10, and more rigid, but slightly less resistant to impact damage (and a heck of a lot worse to work with, dust wise - both health and general crappiness)

Here's some polished G10 on a GEC from a long while ago, and some bead blasted G10 from my own 51OT rebuild not long ago

GEC_Ultralight_Volcanic.jpg

51ots_10.jpg

Kydex is something you will only ever see in sheaths, never handles. It's a low temperature thermoplastic, meaning it gets "floppy" like a thin, wet leather when heated, and retains it's shape when cooled down. You can hit a sheet of Kydex with a heat gun and litteraly mold it around a blade or gun to get a custom fit sheath or holster. It'll stay that way until it gets hot again (IIRC the forming temp for kydex is like 300f or something like that, but it can lose some of it's rigidity if you hit it with say, a hair dryer on high lol)

Thank you, Adam, for concise, user-friendly info that is going verbatim into a .doc in my files for reference.