Schrade China??

[philco]

T.J.,
One of the pictures shows the tang clearly enough to read the stamp. It says "Schrade". That's all. No USA. No Cut Co. .............Just Schrade. The back of the blade no doubt has the word China on it somewhere.

A lot, but not all the listings for the Chinese made Schrade knives will have the word "NEW" in the listing.(as in "New Schrade") This one does. That is another good indicator that the knife for sale was made outside the USA.

Phil

[tjmurphy]

Thanx Phil.

[orvet]

There are several things about this auction that scream CHINA to me.

1- The color & graphics of the box. While it is similar to the Imperial Schrade box, the color is wrong.
2- The shield is wrong. That shield was not used on the USA Schrades.
3- The pattern is wrong. Schrade did not make a 3 blade TL-29 pattern.
4- The price. You couldn’t buy a new American made Schrade for less than $10 when they were still in business. For the most part the prices have gone up since they closed, though you can still find many patterns below the 2004 MSRP, you don’t find full size knives new-in-box for $6.99.

Your instincts are good Tom.

Maybe these things will give you some more tools to work with.
I know personally the frustration that comes when you think you have just purchased a nice new USA Schrade, only to open the box and see that it was made in China.

I am going to start a new thread to show the USA made boxes, so keep an eye open for it.

Dale

[glenn]

TJ the box is the one the china made knifes come in.

[koldgold]

Schrade had some knives made in China before they closed down, in 2004.
My Badgers came in the US Schrade box and where clearly stamped Schrade - China.
I also have one Badger in a 100th Anniversary tin - see etch and tang stamp.
Ken from Down-under...

[Aimus Moses]

Schrade had some knives made in China before they closed down, in 2004.
My Badgers came in the US Schrade box and where clearly stamped Schrade - China.
I also have one Badger in a 100th Anniversary tin - see etch and tang stamp.
Ken from Down-under...

Ken, please don't misunderstand me, and I'm not disputing your word, and this is only for my Schrade education (please forgive my Schrade ignorance) but, did you buy the pictured China marked Schrade in 2004 or before that year? If you didn't how do you know it was made when Imperial Schrade USA was still up and running? Thanks for any Schrade knowledge you can spare for me. Thanks.

Aimus

[gino]

I purchased this at a flea market knowing it was a Schrade china but the tang marking is very unusual. It has the word Schrade with lines thru it??? I posted it earlier in the year on here but nobody knew anything about it. If you click on the pic you can see it.

[mumblypeg]

gino - I think I have a couple with that type of stamp. I'm pretty sure they were seconds, then corrected, and re-stamped. But I could be wrong, probably am.

[gino]

Mum
the handles are plastic like too.
gino

[koldgold]

Hi all from Australia,
As I stated before Schrade had some knives made in China before they closed down, in 2004.
My Badgers came in the US Schrade box; SX4S and where clearly stamped Schrade - China.
I also have a Badger in a 100th Anniversary tin - see etch and tang stamp.
Schrade also had some of these knives made in Irland - clealy stamped Schrade Irland.
Taylor still sells the Badger and it is made in China - It is not half as well made as the US Schrade’s
I have been collecting US made Schrades for 40 years, and when the US factory closed down, I found an un-used Schrade 100th Anniversary Display Unit in Lemars IA - that came with its' stock of 6 of every knife for the display. Quite a find from over here i Australia.

It came with some 2003 Schrade Products Guides - knowing the factory had closed down, I then decided to collect every knife and tool that Schrade sold between 2000 and the close down. The badger was sold by the US Schrade factory - they may have even designed it, It is also well documented to have been sold by Schrade.

I am no expert on all Schrade products - however I do have just about every item sold from 2000, by The US company before they closed down. I have put some other late modle knifes on this sight - Schrade 2000-2004.
I do have some copys of Schrades,made in China - I dismantle them, to check their workmanship and quality..Ken

[orvet]

Schrade had some knives made in China before they closed down, in 2004.
My Badgers came in the US Schrade box and where clearly stamped Schrade - China.
I also have one Badger in a 100th Anniversary tin - see etch and tang stamp.
Ken from Down-under...

Ken, please don't misunderstand me, and I'm not disputing your word, and this is only for my Schrade education (please forgive my Schrade ignorance) but, did you buy the pictured China marked Schrade in 2004 or before that year? If you didn't how do you know it was made when Imperial Schrade USA was still up and running? Thanks for any Schrade knowledge you can spare for me. Thanks.

Aimus

Hi Aimus,
Ken hasn't signed on yet, so perhaps I can answer your question about the Badgers.

Imperial Schrade Corp may have been a bit slow to react to changes in the knife market, but they were reacting, as a look at the new models they introduced in 2003-2004 will show. They introduced many new designs and had some even more amazing things in the works.

One way they reacted to the low price point of the import knives was to introduce their own import line from China, the Badger Series. You can see them on the links below to Collectors-of-Schrade website.

Badger folders - http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ ... -CP202.htm

Badger fixed blades - http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ ... -CP201.htm

While Schrade did not advertise the country of origin on the flyers, they were indeed made in China for Imperial Schrade Corp of Ellenville NY. I have most of the series except for one of the fixed blades, which I do not think was actually landed in the USA before Schrade closed. I had to purchase the Taylor Brands version of that knife. I do believe these knives are made in the same Chinese factory where the Imperial Schrade Chinese knives were made.

As to the quality of these Chinese imports by Imperial Schrade: they do not in my opinion measure up to the quality of the Old Timers or the Uncle Henrys. They are more comparable to the Tradesman or Apex line of knives made in Schrade’s factory in Ireland. I even have one of the Badger series, the SX4B with the black blade, which was made in Ireland.

Schrade was a company that took risks in experimenting with making knives in other countries. Not only did they make knives in China & Ireland, they had some made in England, Germany and Mexico.
Here is a link to some pics of Imperial knives made in Mexico (remember Schrade owned Imperial) - http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ ... /index.htm

The point being that having knives made in other countries was not a new thing for Schrade. China had been making boxes for Schrade for several years before they closed.

I hope this answers your questions,
Dale

[orvet]

Oops, Ken beat me to the post.

I do have some copys of Schrades,made in China - I dismantle them, to check their workmanship and quality..Ken

Ken,
Have you noticed that the Chinese knives are not even the same size as the US made ones? Even the length is different on some models.

Also did you notice that the Chinese knives are not made with the Swinden Key System?

Dale

[koldgold]

Hi Dale,
not too many knife collectors looked at the late Schrade knifes, made with plastic handles etc. I think they where still made well with good blades.
In the past 4 years I have found the Golden-rule* dose no work to find them - dollars do not help at all to find them*.
No one would put a $5 knife away, thinking it would ever become a collectable.
I have found some, that had been locked up and forgotten over here in Australia.
My IQ180 - ST175 - ST1N - ST2N - ST6HP - ST1 - SQ587 - SQ877 - SQ447 - SQ424 and SW7SN where all given to me free of charge. Do you have all of the late items....Ken

[koldgold]

Dale,
Do you think Schrade had some knife parts made in China? The SQ knives are well made and the blade is stamped Schrade USA. Could these knives have been made from parts made in China with a US blade? All of the Taylor knives have not been designed as well as even the Badger. I have something in the back of my mind that says - Schrade could see the trend coming for a good blade, in a less quolity handle. As we all know, they where already using China for boxes and tins...Ken

[mumblypeg]

gino- seconds are the ones with a slight cosmetic flaw. cracked handle, blurred blade etch or whatever. quality control catches it, grinds the tang stamp, or i have seen an 'X' stamped over original stamp, and sends them back to production. they might correct the flaw, if possible, stamp like the ones you and i have, and send them out.

[koldgold]

Living in Australia, I buy items from all over the world ever day.
Most countries are proud of the items they make, and tag everything they make.
The USA has always tagged everything they make.
However when items are made in China for a company in another country and sold elsewhere the place of origin is often left off.
When you look at a Schrade knife, we can see the maker was proud to stamp “USA” on the blade.
Schrade was also proud to tag the badger as a Schrade knife, and I believe Schrade designed the Badger.
And therefore I believe they where quite happy to let the world know it was made in China for them.

China is very good at making things.

The USA has always been good at designing thing and they have good quality-control, and most of all they are very proud of what they make.
So if it's not clearly stamped USA it was not made in the USA….Ken

[Aimus Moses]

Thank you koldgold, and thank you Dale. You answered exactly what I wanted to know Dale. There is one thing that bothers me, if Imperial Schrade USA was beginning to have knives made in China, why would they close down production? I mean Taylor LLC. is doing that very same thing with the Schrade name now and with all of the other brand names Imperial Schrade USA owned. A person would think that Schrade USA would have laid some people off and began selling China-rades like the ones Taylor Schrade imports now if they were already in the process of having knives made in China and imported here to the USA before they closed. Oh well, I'm just here to enjoy all the pretty knives. As Dale once said, with Schrade anything is possible. Thanks for the answers guys.

Aimus

[Aimus Moses]

gino- seconds are the ones with a slight cosmetic flaw. cracked handle, blurred blade etch or whatever. quality control catches it, grinds the tang stamp, or i have seen an 'X' stamped over original stamp, and sends them back to production. they might correct the flaw, if possible, stamp like the ones you and i have, and send them out.

What mumblypeg has said is spot on gino. I have seen Schrade, Camillus, and Case as well as other well known cutlery brands that cut X's over the tang stamp to show that the knife had a problem and is a seconds knife. Some companies will sale a seconds knife, some wont. The seconds knives that are sold can usually be bought at a much lower price than what the knife would normally cost if it wasn't flawed in some way.

Aimus

[koldgold]

Hi from Australia,
I have just found an other Schrade knife in my collection, that was made in China for the Old Schrade company.
It is a AP35, clearly marked 'Schrade' made in 'China' - www.schradeknives.com
It was sold by Schrade before 2004 and came in a Schrade box.
I also have some Imperial Apex knives, that where made in Ireland and come in a box marked Imperial Apex.
As Dale has said, we do not know what Schrade where planning for 2005 or even after that....
However, I do belive Schrade where designing the knives made in China - as the Taylor knives are poor copies....Ken

[Bob W.]

I have one of those Imperial Apex knives made in China before Schrade went out of business. The Ireland factory was closed months earlier, so the Imperial production had to move somewhere. The quality of the Chinese Apex is rather poor, but no worse than the ones made in Ireland.

[koldgold]

Hi Bob,
I have found the quality of the Chinese knives sold by Schade quite good. As I have ever knife that Schrade listed in its' last Products Guide of 2003.
All of the late; Safe-T-Grip, SQ, SS, AV, X-Timer, CH, SX and AP knives where all good quality knives for the price.
The Taylor Band knives, that came after 2004 look much the same, however they are very poor quality knives and bad copies.
The Imperial Apex "AP6" made in Ireland, lacks quality for a Schrade knife..Ken

[orvet]

Hi Bob,
I have found the quality of the Chinese knives sold by Schade quite good. As I have ever knife that Schrade listed in its' last Products Guide of 2003.
All of the late; Safe-T-Grip, SQ, SS, AV, X-Timer, CH, SX and AP knives where all good quality knives for the price.
The Taylor Band knives, that came after 2004 look much the same, however they are very poor quality knives and bad copies...Ken

I quite agree Ken with one caveat; while their Chinese knives are better quality than most Chinese knives I have seen, I was disappointed with a SX4S that I carried for several months (even before I realized that it was made in China). The one I used and carried daily for about 3 or 4 months did not have the edge retention I expect from a Schrade, even one made in Ireland. Personally I think the Schrades made in Ireland are very good quality for the price. Even the TM series have an excellent ratio of quality to price. I have a Tradesman TM1 (TM series) hawkbill, which is one of my favorite gardening knives. I use it for pruning roses, fruit trees and grape vines. I prefer it to a Camillus hawkbill that I also use in the garden.

The SQ & XT series are among my favorite 21st Century Schrades. I would love to see where they would have taken those series if they had stayed in business.

I also agree that the Taylor Schrades are poor quality copies of the old Schrades. There a number of differences on most patterns, even including some that are a different size than the original Schrade.

Dale

[thawk]

Be cautious of new Schrade Walden 65th Anniversary knives. While they are fairly represented on SMKW website, a few of them are showing up on Ebay. For the price they are a pretty nice looking knife, and the quality is better than some of the earlier made Taylors, but don't get fooled. There are quite a few old patterns being revived.



No USA marking, nor is there any country of origin on the knife or packaging.

[koldgold]

Be cautious of new Schrade Walden 65th Anniversary knives. While they are fairly represented on SMKW website, a few of them are showing up on Ebay. For the price they are a pretty nice looking knife, and the quality is better than some of the earlier made Taylors, but don't get fooled. There are quite a few old patterns being revived.



No USA marking, nor is there any country of origin on the knife or packaging.

Although I live in Australia,
The first thing I was told about the U.S.A. some 60 years ago is:
Americans are very proud of their flag and the things they make - and that every-thing they made, they clearly marked U.S.A.
Taylor Brands should lift their game and market their knives, as designed in the U.S.A and made under licence in China...Ken

[Bob W.]

This seems like a good place for a reminder on these 'counterfeits' again:



Imported Taylor Old Timers were mated to leftover anniversary shields and tins. Would be hard to catch on eBay without a closeup of the tang stamp. Just something to watch for.