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Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:56 pm
by 69gto
Just wondering if any Camillus followers could help me on a few questions regarding the Cartridge Collection Series. I recently bought a CCC-2, my first one, and it's a heckuva product. I learned Camillus made the series from 1991-1997 and produced seven models in total. The CCC 1-6 appear to be available but not so much with the CCC-7. Does anyone know production numbers on the models in CCC series? What's the outlook for demand on the Cartridge Collection series? Any thought on a good purchasing price range for items that are MIB?
Also, I've been collecting the Remington repros and got started on the SB's. I know that Camillus made the Remington Repros and Silver Bullets; to me, the CCC is close to the same product as the SB. Over the past year, it seems that the Remingtons and Camillus' have been resting at a decent price/value. For that reason, I've been picking up pieces when I can -- and because I really enjoy the products. Lately, it looks like prices are heading north. Anyone else feel that way? Is there a trend for higher quality USA made cutlery from 80's-90s?
Thanks a million for your feedback.
Sal
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:49 pm
by orvet
One of the biggest expenses in producing a knife pattern is the cost of the tooling to produce the pattern.
It can run over $10,000 for the tooling on a complex pattern.
Once a company, such as Remington, paid for the tooling for a pattern the tooling belonged to Camillus.
Unless there was an agreement that the contracting company had exclusive rights to the use of the tooling (which cost even more so was seldom done) Camillus owned the tooling and could make what ever they wanted with the stamps, dyes and tooling.
When you see Camillus Cartridge knives that look the same as the Remington's, that is the reason; they were made on the same tooling as the Remington, in the same factory (Camillus) by the same people.
Since the tooling was paid for, that was not factored into the cost of the product so Camillus could sell for less and make plenty on the pattern.
I generally prefer the Camillus series to the Remingtons, myself.
Dale
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:03 pm
by 69gto
Thanks, Dale! Makes sense. Do you have any of the CCC's? I'm buying a few here and there and curious about where collectors think the market may be headed for this series?
Sal
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:22 am
by orvet
I am not sure how many I have maybe 2 or 3.
I think the market is strong on most all the Camillus products (US Made).
I expect them to continue to increase in value.
Dale
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:17 pm
by Phil Gibbs
orvet wrote:One of the biggest expenses in producing a knife pattern is the cost of the tooling to produce the pattern.
It can run over $10,000 for the tooling on a complex pattern.
Once a company, such as Remington, paid for the tooling for a pattern the tooling belonged to Camillus.
Unless there was an agreement that the contracting company had exclusive rights to the use of the tooling (which cost even more so was seldom done) Camillus owned the tooling and could make what ever they wanted with the stamps, dyes and tooling.
When you see Camillus Cartridge knives that look the same as the Remington's, that is the reason; they were made on the same tooling as the Remington, in the same factory (Camillus) by the same people.
Since the tooling was paid for, that was not factored into the cost of the product so Camillus could sell for less and make plenty on the pattern.
I generally prefer the Camillus series to the Remingtons, myself.
Dale
Dale,
Truth is Remington never wanted to (& never did) pay for any of the tooling for their knives.
Our only method of recouping our tooling costs (probably closer to $20,000 for a 2 blade folder) was to use it ourselves.
Interestingly enough, the 1983 R1173 was my first Remington new pattern!
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:48 am
by orvet
Thank you Phil, that is good to know. I seem to have my facts skewed a bit. I really appreciate the update.
Since Camillus paid for the tooling and owned it, that is all the more reason for them to use it on their own knives.
Are there any differences between the Camillus Cartridge series and the Remington's?
The Camillus seem to me to be made better for some reason.
Maybe just my prejudice.
Dale
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:45 pm
by Phil Gibbs
orvet wrote:Thank you Phil, that is good to know. I seem to have my facts skewed a bit. I really appreciate the update.
Since Camillus paid for the tooling and owned it, that is all the more reason for them to use it on their own knives.
Are there any differences between the Camillus Cartridge series and the Remington's?
The Camillus seem to me to be made better for some reason.
Maybe just my prejudice.
Dale
Nothing wrong with a little prejudice Dale!
In theory the quality of the Camillus Classic Cartridge series would have been the same as the Silver Bullet series from Remington.
Let's be honest, real jigged bone takes a better polish than the dyed delrin of the regular Bullet knives.
Anyone have any of the Camillus Safari Series with the nickel plated bullet case head?
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:54 pm
by gino
I recently purchased the entire series all mint in box with papaerwork plus an extra of the scout (which I since traded to JR). I dont know anything about numbers but they are well built sturdy knives.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:00 am
by 69gto
I really like this series, a classic. Recently picked up CCC-1 through CCC-6; need that no. 7. If anyone has one to offer for sale or trade please let me know. Thanks for all the interesting comments.
Sal
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:11 pm
by johnnierotten
Anyone have any of the Camillus Safari Series with the nickel plated bullet case head?
I thought that I would start this thread up again...
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:47 am
by FRJ
This very nice knife I gave to my good friend. 7 mm Mauser.
I'm sure it's a great series. Never seen another one.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:55 am
by johnnierotten
Yeah....they're very nice knives.
......here is the one that I got from Gino that He talks about in his earlier post.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:01 am
by FRJ
Those are great looking knives, Johnnie. Nice comparison there. Is that a leather punch? If so, I prefer that style. Very pointed and long. Looks like they opted out on the swedge on the sheepsfoot on the Camillus.
What cartridge is designated for that knife?
Thanks for showing those.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:19 am
by johnnierotten
Yes....that’s a leather punch.
...the cartridge is a 270 Winchester.
....Both knives are actually made by Camillus.....but I do like the swedge on the Remmy's sheepsfoot better.....I think they should have put it in both.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:33 am
by FRJ
Thanks Johnnie. I thought it might be a punch, but had to ask. Yeah, I like to see a swedge where ever I can.
But don't you like to see a punch like that, Johnnie, nice and sharp and pointed that you could actually get through a harness or a belt. A lot I see would be hard to use.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:44 am
by johnnierotten
Most definitely......these scouts were actually built to use.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:23 am
by orvet
Nice knives guys!
I will have to get some pixs of the ones I have.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:45 pm
by johnnierotten
Sounds good, Dale.
......looking forward to seeing them.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:59 am
by orvet
Here is one I have, the C-3.
The cartridge is 30-06 Springfield.
The second blade is a gutting blade, used to cut up the hide of an animal without puncturing the organs, much like a gut hook is used.
I am not where this originated, though I expect someone here knows, but I first saw it on Puma knives back in the 1980s.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:58 pm
by johnnierotten
I like it.
....I can't recall ever seeing one like that.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:33 am
by orvet
Oh, I forgot to show that the C-3 is also a double lockback.
I think this is the last of the Camillus Cartridge Series I have.
This is by far my favorite of all that I have seen of that series.
It is the .22 Long Rifle muskrat, the Rimfire Classic.
I guess it is my favorite in part because I must have sent about half a million .22 rounds down range when I was growing up.
I am also found of the muskrat pattern, so this knife is a win-win for me!
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:48 pm
by carrmillus
orvet wrote:Oh, I forgot to show that the C-3 is also a double lockback.
Camillus C-3 c.jpg
I think this is the last of the Camillus Cartridge Series I have.
This is by far my favorite of all that I have seen of that series.
It is the .22 Long Rifle muskrat, the Rimfire Classic.
Camillus 22LR-4 a.jpg
Camillus 22LR-4 b.jpg
dale, i really like the muskrat(22LR-4), i never realized it was made in the cartridge series. the only one i have is the 22LR-6 whittler, and i really like it.
I guess it is my favorite in part because I must have sent about half a million .22 rounds down range when I was growing up.
I am also found of the muskrat pattern, so this knife is a win-win for me!
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:01 pm
by gino
Here is my complete series #1-7 Camillus Classic Cartridge collection.
All bone handled.
The 44 is my favorite
I really suck at picture taking, sorry guys.
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:06 pm
by ozzie marie
gino,
Keith
Re: Camillus Cartridge Collection
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:55 pm
by FRJ
Dale and Gino, great looking knives. What a nice collection, Gino.
Dale, I also shot a ton of 22 as a kid. I loved every minute of it.