U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

A place to discuss & share pictures of military related knives and tools. Conversation relating to objects of war and peace from all eras welcome.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by Mossdancer »

Hi elbertson:
PLease do not let a lack of a reply put you off. Anything anyone can contribute is certainly appreciated. Thank you for the info.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by elbertson »

Thanks, just nice to know I'm not wasting my, or anyone else's, time. I feel info ain't worth a hoot if it can't be shared.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by Miller Bro's »

elbertson wrote:I hope this info is useful...I've responded before in this forum without any acknowledgement of whether it was even read, let alone helpful.
Let me say there are about a dozen of us that actually contribute to this forum on a regular basis. Not a lot of folks at AAPK collect fixed blade knives, especially military. So there is a big lag in response time on these threads ::nod::

Like Moss said, don`t let that discourage you. I know I am reading what you write and appreciated your input ::tu:: :D
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by WelderBob »

Added another one to Mark ll herd...a guard marked Robeson USN in pretty good shape. I noticed the tip on this is more blunt
than Camillus and KaBar's and the handle tapers down towards the pommel...I was wondering if the guard marked knives were
made towards the end of WWll...?

Bob
Attachments
Robeson 005.JPG
Robeson 006.JPG
Robeson 008.JPG
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by coffeecup »

Stamps were moved from the blade to the guard at some point (mid-late 1943 if I remember right).

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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by WelderBob »

Thank you Jim that's one question down... ::tu:: ...always been curious why they went from blade marked to guard marked...cost cutting or a change in manufacturing process.

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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by coffeecup »

WelderBob wrote:Thank you Jim that's one question down... ::tu:: ...always been curious why they went from blade marked to guard marked...cost cutting or a change in manufacturing process.

Bob
The general story is that the change was made out of concern that some blades (actually the M3, not the KaBar) were breaking at the stamp. Tests were done by the Infantry Board and Springfield, and the change was made as soon as it could be implemented. I don't know if the breakage was ever shown to be due to the blade stamps though--and the records of the tests/investigation are missing.

There is another argument though: the guards were unhardened mild steel, while the blades were high-carbon steel. Marking the guards would result in less wear to the die, and longer life before replacement. There was a lot of call for diemakers at the time, and I suspect anything that could be done to extend the life of tooling became a consideration.

But who knows? Maybe some guy just wanted to confuse all the future collectors? ::shrug::

Jim
Quality should not be an accident. So what is the explanation for some of the knives we've seen in the past few years? (from A Knifebuyer's Manifesto)
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by elbertson »

I was always under the impression that the change from blade stamp location was to cut costs and increase efficiency. All they would need to do to change over from USN to USMC production was to grab prestamped guards from a different box and use them. Makes sense as prestamped guards are cheaper to produce and take up a lot less space than prestamped blades. Don't know if that's the reason for sure, but it seems logical.
I find it hard to believe that they would seriously blame stamped blades for blade breakage. The stampings were typically very light, and stamped blade knives have been around awhile before WW2. Sounds to me that it was more likely one of those stories concocted in the field to try to explain the change...kinda like M-16s being made by Mattel, or EJ jungle boots being made with input from Lady Bird Johnson. Also consider all the other government contracted knives that continued to be made with stamped blades.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by coffeecup »

I don't know; all I know for sure is that Frank Trzaska has stated that the reports from Springfield/Infantry Board are in the Index at the National Archives, but the reports are missing. I've never cared enough to find out the titles of the reports, or what description there might be.

It seems that often with such investigations, the results don't really answer the original questions (they may resolve a problem--and that's often a good thing--but they may not answer the original statement). Apparently there were problems with knives breaking, and apparently it stopped (or declined) after the location of the stamping changed--but there may have been other changes, in tempering, steel source, or ???

Jim
Quality should not be an accident. So what is the explanation for some of the knives we've seen in the past few years? (from A Knifebuyer's Manifesto)
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by garddogg56 »

Mossdancer wrote:Just so happens that an old Navy buddy of mine just a few days ago sent me a 6 inch Camillus Pilots or aircrew survival knife with a well used sheath which I will use to have a replacement made to its exact specs. The knife still has in excess 85% of parkerizing with what appears to be a small amount of sharpening. Some how the tip has lost a fraction. Bob, somewhere I think I have one of those bolo's with the sheath. I will try to find it.
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Today @ a fleamarket I got a knife just like this one that has ONTARIO 10-76 at the top of the handle on the side of the cap w/ no other markings, did Camillus make this knife for Ontario,I would swear these are one in the same except mine has a 5" blade :?pictures on pg4.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by Mossdancer »

Your knife is correct it is from 74 as it says. Probably made by Ontario. The six inch blades are before 62. Show us a pic when you get a chance. Did you get a matching sheath if so it may have a date on the back.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by WelderBob »

Thank's again Jim and Elbertson...good points to consider. I can see from a manufacturing standpoint that having a unmarked blade would simplify the process, just use one set of die's and put on whatever guard was needed to identify the knife for that branch of service. I imagine the subject of blade breakage due to stamping will continue to be debated...heck we need something to cuss and discuss... :wink:

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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by Iron Hoarder »

I think I put these on the forum somewhere before but this is a better thread for them. Collins Legitimus Model 1250 Canadian Army machetes dated 1943 and 1944. The sheaths are dated 1941 and 1947 on the top one and 1944 on the bottom one.

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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by elbertson »

Nice machetes...I really like bolo short machetes. Good to have a little extra weight out on the end.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by Mossdancer »

Here are a couple of relics for the grist mill The Pal Utility is in superior condition. These old USMC
marked KA-Bars are far and few in between anymore.The mask looks to be NOS The issue was 1945.
Hunting and WWII finds 011.jpg
Hunting and WWII finds 013.jpg
Hunting and WWII finds 014.jpg
Hunting and WWII finds 015.jpg
Hunting and WWII finds 016.jpg
Hunting and WWII finds 017.jpg
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by garddogg56 »

Mossdancer wrote:Your knife is correct it is from 74 as it says. Probably made by Ontario. The six inch blades are before 62. Show us a pic when you get a chance. Did you get a matching sheath if so it may have a date on the back.
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My OntarioPSK is a 10-76 5inch no sheath got to find one before hunting season,NEED TO GET BACK TO WORK SO MOTHER WILL REPLACE THE CAMERA I BROKE you would swear I shot her mother ::shrug::
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by gringo »

i imagine breaking things is more fun when ya have someone to yell at you about it...
i broke my camera and still haven't replaced it.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by WelderBob »

I've been on the hunt for one of these Western Seebee's ever since Dimitri posted his...and they ain't easy to find. This is a pretty honest knife,
still has some blue on it, has a nice stamp and nobody's put it on the grinder...I think the sheath is original but I'm not real sure.
This is well built knife...the blue looks to be of firearm's quality, I'll bet it was a looker when it was new... ::nod::
Attachments
Western 001.JPG
Western 002.JPG
Western 003.JPG
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by coffeecup »

WelderBob wrote:...I think the sheath is original but I'm not real sure.
The sheath looks correct (double stitched, brake rivets, strap placement). I've seen a very similar one with a single line of stitching with a couple of SeeBees but I'm pretty sure it was intended for another company's Mark 1.

Jim
Quality should not be an accident. So what is the explanation for some of the knives we've seen in the past few years? (from A Knifebuyer's Manifesto)
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by WelderBob »

Thank you Jim, I'm glad to hear it's the right one...I know sheath's can be harder to find then the knives... ::nod::

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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by Miller Bro's »

Nice one Bob, your lucky to find one that nice ::nod:: ::tu::

Here are a few I have picked up..............
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24.jpg
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by WelderBob »

Thank's Dimitri....nice MK 1's, the second one looks like a Robeson...not sure on the other....am I close..... ::hmm::
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by Miller Bro's »

WelderBob wrote:nice MK 1's, the second one looks like a Robeson...not sure on the other....am I close...

Both of them are Geneva Forge ::nod::
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by WelderBob »

Well I flunked that test...back to school for me... ::dang::

I knew Robeson and Pal used wooden pommels...forgot all about Geneva.
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Re: U.S & German World War I & II Military Knives

Post by galvanic1882 »

How's this. Richtig dagger. I have a fighter and mini I will post in a few days. Love the feel of his knives very well balanced
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richtigfighter.jpg
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