Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
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Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Bought this little gem many, many years ago and knew nothing about it other than I really liked it and it was unusually well made for an advertising knife. With no way to accurately date the knife, as Bastian Bros has been around well over a hundred years and is still in business, it was not a viable means of identifying the the knife's age. Add to that pocket knives was not Bastian Bros primary business, they made commemorative pins and badges, occasionally making knives.
With nothing to really go on I turned to the company advertised on the knife and that led me on an intriguing journey resulting in a fairly accurate date around 1899 +/- 7 years. Pretty darn good if you ask me , Here's what I turned up, hope you enjoy it.
I love advertising knives, there's always so much variety in patterns and quality to make it interesting to collect. Above is a knife for the Good Roads Machinery Company they were in business with that name from 1892-1907.
Good Roads Machinery Company patented the "American Champion," the first four-wheeled pull grader, in 1877. It was reorganized under the American Road Machine Company name in 1889 after opening plants in Delphos, Ohio, as well as Groton and Marathon, New York.
The Good Roads Machinery Company was organized as the firm's sales branch, and Good Roads became the brand name under which the equipment, which included graders, rollers and rock crushers, was manufactured, although the American Champion name was continued for graders. The Good Roads name was a direct allusion to the Good Roads movement, under which dirt farm roads throughout the United States were being improved for automobile traffic.
The firm expanded into Canada in 1888, and the Copp Brothers firm of Hamilton, Ontario, gained sole licensing rights for American Champion graders in Canada in 1892. John Challen, the manager of Copp Brothers, bought the company out in 1896 and renamed it Good Roads Machinery Company, not to be confused with the sales agents of the same name for American Road Machinery. Challen's firm failed in 1907, and he became a salesman for American Road Machinery, which apparently acquired the firm's assets.
A new group of investors bought the former Challen firm in 1908 and reorganized it as Canadian Road Machine Company Ltd., and this firm also failed and was reacquired by American Road Machinery in 1909 as American Road Machinery of Canada.
New & Used Heavy Equipment http://www.ritchiewiki.com/wiki/index.p ... z3JxLCPOTs
There was no tang stamp but on the corner of the stamped handles were the name Bastian Bros Co. Rochester NY. Here's a little history on them, seems like they started their company around the same time. Robeson was contacted to make the knives while they stamped the handles.
history on the stamp Bastian Bros Co Rochester NY...
Bastian Company Profile
Bastian Company was founded in 1895 and was incorporated as Bastian Brothers Company initially operating as a jewelry store. Shortly after it’s founding, Bastian Brothers became one of the first firms in Rochester, New York to become a Union Shop and continues today to be a totally unionized firm. Within a short period of time, the firm became known for its custom recognition and award products and underwent a rapid expansion. Soon after moving into a larger facility, Bastian expanded its sales and marketing efforts to eventually cover the entire United States and today has numerous customers located outside the United States.
Since 1895, Bastian Company has been recognized internationally for its quality, craftsmanship, and integrity in the production of emblematic jewelry, lapel pins, medallions, belt buckles, paperweights, key tags, convention badges, police-security-firemen badges and insignia, and automotive decorative emblems.
Bastian Company’s die cutters (tool makers) can reproduce a concept into an embossing die that will provide the clarity, sharpness and definition of detail you expect in the finished product. In each and every step of the very labor intensive die striking, enameling, polishing, finishing and plating procedures our employees build integrity and quality into every Bastian Company product.
In December of 2003, Bastian Company acquired the assets of CRDL Inc. and moved all equipment and operations from the CRDL plant in California to the Bastian plant. CRDL invented and patented magnetic sculptures and today offers more than 300 designs to select from. With the move to the Bastian plant, CRDL magnetic sculptures are now union made along with all Bastian products.
Not bad for a $10 flea market find.
With nothing to really go on I turned to the company advertised on the knife and that led me on an intriguing journey resulting in a fairly accurate date around 1899 +/- 7 years. Pretty darn good if you ask me , Here's what I turned up, hope you enjoy it.
I love advertising knives, there's always so much variety in patterns and quality to make it interesting to collect. Above is a knife for the Good Roads Machinery Company they were in business with that name from 1892-1907.
Good Roads Machinery Company patented the "American Champion," the first four-wheeled pull grader, in 1877. It was reorganized under the American Road Machine Company name in 1889 after opening plants in Delphos, Ohio, as well as Groton and Marathon, New York.
The Good Roads Machinery Company was organized as the firm's sales branch, and Good Roads became the brand name under which the equipment, which included graders, rollers and rock crushers, was manufactured, although the American Champion name was continued for graders. The Good Roads name was a direct allusion to the Good Roads movement, under which dirt farm roads throughout the United States were being improved for automobile traffic.
The firm expanded into Canada in 1888, and the Copp Brothers firm of Hamilton, Ontario, gained sole licensing rights for American Champion graders in Canada in 1892. John Challen, the manager of Copp Brothers, bought the company out in 1896 and renamed it Good Roads Machinery Company, not to be confused with the sales agents of the same name for American Road Machinery. Challen's firm failed in 1907, and he became a salesman for American Road Machinery, which apparently acquired the firm's assets.
A new group of investors bought the former Challen firm in 1908 and reorganized it as Canadian Road Machine Company Ltd., and this firm also failed and was reacquired by American Road Machinery in 1909 as American Road Machinery of Canada.
New & Used Heavy Equipment http://www.ritchiewiki.com/wiki/index.p ... z3JxLCPOTs
There was no tang stamp but on the corner of the stamped handles were the name Bastian Bros Co. Rochester NY. Here's a little history on them, seems like they started their company around the same time. Robeson was contacted to make the knives while they stamped the handles.
history on the stamp Bastian Bros Co Rochester NY...
Bastian Company Profile
Bastian Company was founded in 1895 and was incorporated as Bastian Brothers Company initially operating as a jewelry store. Shortly after it’s founding, Bastian Brothers became one of the first firms in Rochester, New York to become a Union Shop and continues today to be a totally unionized firm. Within a short period of time, the firm became known for its custom recognition and award products and underwent a rapid expansion. Soon after moving into a larger facility, Bastian expanded its sales and marketing efforts to eventually cover the entire United States and today has numerous customers located outside the United States.
Since 1895, Bastian Company has been recognized internationally for its quality, craftsmanship, and integrity in the production of emblematic jewelry, lapel pins, medallions, belt buckles, paperweights, key tags, convention badges, police-security-firemen badges and insignia, and automotive decorative emblems.
Bastian Company’s die cutters (tool makers) can reproduce a concept into an embossing die that will provide the clarity, sharpness and definition of detail you expect in the finished product. In each and every step of the very labor intensive die striking, enameling, polishing, finishing and plating procedures our employees build integrity and quality into every Bastian Company product.
In December of 2003, Bastian Company acquired the assets of CRDL Inc. and moved all equipment and operations from the CRDL plant in California to the Bastian plant. CRDL invented and patented magnetic sculptures and today offers more than 300 designs to select from. With the move to the Bastian plant, CRDL magnetic sculptures are now union made along with all Bastian products.
Not bad for a $10 flea market find.
My Old Man told me when I was a kid, "You can spend your entire life convincing someone how smart you are but it only takes a second to prove you're an idiot."....................You can call me Ted.
Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Cool knife, even better with the history.
Bruce
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Love the thirst for history - excellent read and research - well played sir.
Tom
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Very interesting, and a very attractive knife.
You should think of incorporating the parallel history of The Robeson Cutlery Company of Rochester, New York, into your research, as they made a lot of knives for Bastion Brothers.
I'm not saying Robeson made that knife, but it's possible. They did not establish their manufacturing in Perry, New York until about 1900, but their corporate headquarters had been in Rochester well before that.
Charlie Noyes
You should think of incorporating the parallel history of The Robeson Cutlery Company of Rochester, New York, into your research, as they made a lot of knives for Bastion Brothers.
I'm not saying Robeson made that knife, but it's possible. They did not establish their manufacturing in Perry, New York until about 1900, but their corporate headquarters had been in Rochester well before that.
Charlie Noyes
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Speaking of Robeson, what can you tell me about this little hand hammered prize ? IIRC it says Robeson Shuredge Rochester NY
My Old Man told me when I was a kid, "You can spend your entire life convincing someone how smart you are but it only takes a second to prove you're an idiot."....................You can call me Ted.
Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
First prize is now pretty high on my "I gotta get me one of them" list
Bruce
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Imagine how much time went into hammering all those dents in the NS scales.
My Old Man told me when I was a kid, "You can spend your entire life convincing someone how smart you are but it only takes a second to prove you're an idiot."....................You can call me Ted.
Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Do you suppose they make golf balls the same way.
Bruce
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
They used a center punch and small ball peen hammer.
Charlie
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Actually, it is a fairly common pattern. They turn up on Ebay with some regularity.
They came in nickel-silver or brass (might have been a gold wash, as I've never actually had one in hand) and there were a few different markings beyond the First Award one.
Here is my one example. It is marked, ARPEAKO, which was the logo of The Rochester Meat Packing Company. Their motto was something like "Packed At The Peak Of Perfection.
They had a contest to come up with a logo and a young girl won with "ARPEAKO". AR = R for Rochester, PEAK for "peak, and KO = Company.
Hey, it was a simpler time, Okay?
Charlie Noyes
They came in nickel-silver or brass (might have been a gold wash, as I've never actually had one in hand) and there were a few different markings beyond the First Award one.
Here is my one example. It is marked, ARPEAKO, which was the logo of The Rochester Meat Packing Company. Their motto was something like "Packed At The Peak Of Perfection.
They had a contest to come up with a logo and a young girl won with "ARPEAKO". AR = R for Rochester, PEAK for "peak, and KO = Company.
Hey, it was a simpler time, Okay?
Charlie Noyes
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
"...Men may spurn our appeals, reject our message, oppose our arguments, despise our persons ___but they are helpless against our prayers. "
Sidlow Baxter
"...Men may spurn our appeals, reject our message, oppose our arguments, despise our persons ___but they are helpless against our prayers. "
Sidlow Baxter
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
I've seen the ARPEAKO version before, that was the only other info I had ever seen. It's a well made piece and having an unmarked one makes it even better. Thanks for the reply.
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
RobesonsRme.com wrote:They used a center punch and small ball peen hammer.
Charlie
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Here is one with a similar finish made by Bonsa. Very unusual pattern with a folding beer can opener.
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Ok, here's the ARPEAKO above the First Prize, I never realized what nice shape mine is compared to the only other example I've seen. Now it's obvious when the'tr stacked like this that they were stamped. When I overlaid the ARPEAKO directly over the First Prize and lessened the opacity the divots line up exactly. Again I've been schooled and educated, thanks for again sending me off to prove or disprove what was said.
My Old Man told me when I was a kid, "You can spend your entire life convincing someone how smart you are but it only takes a second to prove you're an idiot."....................You can call me Ted.
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Re: Dating a knife by the advertisement on it
Check out this thread I started seven years ago.
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 35&t=19917
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 35&t=19917
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