Iroquois

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313 Mike
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Iroquois

Postby 313 Mike » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:27 am

I did some searching here on the site and did not find a thread about Iroquois brand knives, so I thought I'd post a pic of the one I just received...I was able to learn that they were most likely made by Utica in New York between 1920-1940...anyone have any other Iroquois knives to show or info to share?
Mike
Iroquois Jack 001.jpg
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orvet
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Re: Iroquois

Postby orvet » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:40 am

Goins guesstimates 1920-1940, but has nothing else listed.
Levine's guide fourth edition dates it circa 1930s-1940s, and probably made by Utica.
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313 Mike
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Re: Iroquois

Postby 313 Mike » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:43 pm

Yep Dale, that's about what I've found too.
Are there any Utica catalogs that have a section with the Iroquois knives listed i wonder...? Were they a less expensive version of the Utica knives, or just a different line?

This is a Utica that I have, and it except the shield and tang stamp, it is virtually the same as the Iroquois...
utica.jpg
utica.jpg (43.64 KiB) Viewed 1009 times

utica_tang.jpg
utica_tang.jpg (32.53 KiB) Viewed 1009 times
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Re: Iroquois

Postby gringo » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:04 pm

i have one of those...i forget the tang stamp...same knife...sturdy...broke a thumb nail the first time i opened it...after lubrication

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313 Mike
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Re: Iroquois

Postby 313 Mike » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:21 pm

...So while researching this Iroquois stamp in my "Big Book Of Pocket Knives" fourth edition by Ron Stewert, I found the following info..."About 1925 Utica Cutlery Co, Utica NY changed its stamp to Kutmaster USA"

...so if the Iroquois knife was made by Utica, then the Iroquois would have to be pre-1925 also then......correct?
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Re: Iroquois

Postby philco » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:04 am

313 Mike wrote:...So while researching this Iroquois stamp in my "Big Book Of Pocket Knives" fourth edition by Ron Stewert, I found the following info..."About 1925 Utica Cutlery Co, Utica NY changed its stamp to Kutmaster USA"

...so if the Iroquois knife was made by Utica, then the Iroquois would have to be pre-1925 also then......correct?


Mike, according to what I've read in Goin's Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings Utica did not utilize the "Kutmaster" trademark until 1937. It goes on to say that the "Kutmaster" stamping eventually replaced all other markings (although it fails to specify when that took place).

It also shows stampings from a 1928 Utica Cutlery Company catalog which include "UTK" overstamped with "Supreme" dated 1910, a horseshoe with the words "Good" and "Luck" on the horseshoe and "T" over "K" inside the horseshoe, dated 1929. "Pocket Pard" was shown dated 1929, "Seneca" is dated 1932, "Kutmaster" is dated 1937, and the shape of a long feather with the word "Featherweight" inside the outline of the feather is dated 1933.
The ad does not list the "Iroquois" stamping, although, as previously stated, the book shows elsewhere that "Iroquois" was used from c. 1920-1940.

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Re: Iroquois

Postby 313 Mike » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:58 am

Ahhh...very interesting Phil! I hope there isn't too much other wrong info in this book of mine, I've kind of been operating under the assumption that it was accurate. I know there is a lot of info out there, makes it challenging to sort through it all and get a clear picture, but that is part of the fun of it all. Thanks much for the info, you are a well of knowledge and I appreciate you taking the time to help me wade through this stuff and get to the bottom of things!
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Re: Iroquois

Postby whitebuffalo58 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:50 pm

My book shows Iroquois as being a Utica house brand from 1930-1940.
Hey Phil, (or anyone who has a Goin's book) does Goin's show a date for a Utica Knife & Razor Co.? My book shows it as being Utica's first mark from 1910-1929, then changed to Utica Cut. Co. in 1929. Just wondered how Goin's listed it, if at all.

Thanks

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Re: Iroquois

Postby dudleythetogi » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:51 pm

Image
Image

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Re: Iroquois

Postby philco » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:32 am

Here's what Goin's has:

UTICA KNIFE & RAZOR COMP. UTICA N.Y. c. 1924-1935
"Red Point" is stamped on the front of the tang.. Located in Utica, New York at 209 John Street about 1924. In that year the Mailman Bros., Joseph L., Abraham L., and Samuel began using the trademark "Pal." Otto E. Kraus was advertising and sales manager.

In 1924, they displayed a full line of "Red Point" razors and pocket knives. By 1935, the manufacturing plant was in Plattsburg, New York and went by the name Pal Cutlery Company. The usual marking found on their products is "U. K. & R."
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Re: Iroquois

Postby whitebuffalo58 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:52 am

Wow, big difference between Price and Goins!
Price says "Utica Cuttlery Co., This Utica, New York, company was founded as a metal working factory and named Utica Knife & Razor Co., In 1929 the name was changed to Utica Cutlery Co."
Voyles doesn't list Utica Knife & Razor at all, and doesn't mention the stamping in the reference material on Utica Cut. Co.
Very interesting! ::hmm::
Sorry to get off topic, thanks for the info Phil!

WB

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Re: Iroquois

Postby philco » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:00 am

::paranoid:: Off topic ? Who's off topic? ::paranoid::
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Re: Iroquois

Postby whitebuffalo58 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:05 am

I still say it's,



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