TL-29 Electricians Knives

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:34 pm

Thanks Johnnie.
I thought there might be a NY somewhere, as I thought I had seen reference to it at one time or another. If I take it apart & will be sure to get a pic of the whole tang stamp.

Here is a Schrade Walden version of the TL-29.

SFC ADP · Post by **SFC ADP** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:55 pm

Compare that Schrade to the Craftsman one I posted, mine the bail had been removed, but appears it matches the schrade one pretty close judging by the handles.

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:57 am

More of those screwdriver knives!
The first picture is of an older Empire and a Schrade Walden. The Empire is an early version, where the main blade is depressed to unlock the screwdriver. The linerlock replaced that system, and proved more robust. Mine is a civilian version, I think, but military versions were made (see Silvey's book on Military Pocketknives). The Schrade appears unused.
Next pic is of two older Empires, not TL-29s, but sharers of some of the DNA!
The bottom screwdriver knife doesn't lock, but has a wrench (possibly for those old automotive lights that used carbide??)
And the top one is the other half of agteacher2's knife, a "blade delete"

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:06 am

Nice Empires Charlie!

I don't have an Empire TL-29 for my collection......yet, but I have been looking for one. I do believe you are correct about the square wrench in the blade of the one knife. They were used to adjust the old carbide head lamps on the very early automobiles. There is a specific name for it, which I can't seem to think of at the moment.

SFC-
You are right, the Craftsman & the Schrade Walden look very much alike. Now, check out the pic below of a Camillus Hawkbill TL, notice that the handles on all three knives are almost identical.

The question is who made what for whom? Did Schrade make the Craftsman or did Camillus make the Craftsman? Or, did Camillus or Schrade make all three? Or did Schrade & Camillus each make their own?

Albert Baer owned a big chunk of Camillus as well as Schrade. There were some patterns that Camillus made for Schrade/Imperial. The Frontier series is one example. Now, did Camillus make this style TL-29 for Schrade Walden? I don't know. I bet someone does know though, perhaps LT?

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:08 am

All I know is I want one of those TL's with the hawkbill wire stripping blade! Nice TL's Everyone

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:39 am

OK,
Here is one more. A three blade M. Klein & Sons with similar handles. I am not sure who makes it, but the pattern on the handles is similar to the Craftsman, Schrade Walden, and Camillus. I think someone once told me that M. Klein were made by Camillus, but I don't know that for a fact.

I have noticed that the handles on this brand seem to oxidize and get a grayish film in them that is a bit hard to get off. I haven't noticed that problem with the Craftsman, Schrade or Camillus. It may be a slightly different material in the handles.

Dale

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:16 am

I found one more TL-29 with the wood grain type Delrin handles. This one is an Ulster.

With so many knives that have the same type handles, I wonder if one company made them all, or one company made the handles for them all. It could be that more than one company made similar handles.

Anyone have any inside info?

Dale

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:22 am

maybe a company got the war contract for a generic handle for more than one knife co. could even carry over past the war. they are one of the most useful knife/tools ever.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:07 am

jonet143 wrote:maybe a company got the war contract for a generic handle for more than one knife co. could even carry over past the war. they are one of the most useful knife/tools ever.

Johnnie,
You may just be on to something, IMHO. There is a common denominator in all those knives, if what I heard about M. Klein being made by Camillus is true.

We know that Albert Baer (the common denominator) bought Ulster in 1941. Later Ulster & Imperial joined forces to form Kingston Cutlery Co. which made mostly military knives, (though Ulster used the Kingston name before & after WWII). Approximately 1947 Schrade Cutlery joined Ulster & Imperial to form Imperial Knife Associated Companies (See Goin's). So it is easy to understand that Schrade & Ulster might share materials. But, Albert Baer also had a close association with Camillus. In fact, I understand, he owned a big chunk of the Camillus stock.

It is known that Camillus & Schrade made knives for each other & both companies made knives for Sears. So, if Camillus (or Schrade) made the M. Klein, it would be easy to understand that Camillus, Craftsman, M. Klein, Ulster & Schrade might share components, especially if one of them had a plethora of handles left after the war. I suppose it is possible that one or two of the companies made the same knife under the 5 different brand names.

Mind you this is all speculation, but it seems plausible.

Now, if we could find a Kingston TL-29 with the wood grain Delrin handles...........and then an Imperial.......hummm???!

Dale

agteacher2 · Post by **agteacher2** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:34 am

I guess they used those handles on other knives also. I picked this one up on Ebay today for $1.64+shipping
It is a MKLEIN & SONS, CHICAGO, MADE IN USA

Jeff

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:36 pm

I have a Klein Hawkbill with the same handles, someday I'll get around to rebuilding it

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:55 pm

Nice Jeff

That is the first M. Klein I have seen with that blade pattern and without a screwdriver blade.

I did a bit of research on the web and found the following info from Bernard Levine, posted on BF.

"Mathias Klein & Sons is a large electrical supply house in Chicago. It was founded in 1857. Since about 1911 most of its knives have been made by Utica/Kutmaster Cutlery Company.
This hawkbill was made for stripping the insulation from heavy cable.
The locking liner was patented in July 1906 by Watson & Chadwick, for Cattaraugus."

If Bernard is right & Utica did make the M. Klein knives (and I have no reason to think that he is wrong) then my theory of the knives with the wood grained handles seems to be wrong.

Maybe you are right Johnnie. Maybe there was a lot of them left after the war (though I have not seen the wood grain handles on any knives I have seen dated as WWII) and everyone got a bargain on them. Or, maybe it is just a popular style, or it is easy and inexpensive to make, or, or, or.........who knows?

Maybe this is one of those questions for which we will never find an answer.

I did run across an ad, circa 1917, (which I bought) for a M. Klein leather tool bag. Apparently leather was in short supply (remember we still used horses in WWI), and M. Klein found this a good time to sell tool bags. Maybe they were excess inventory, and the leather shortage provided a ready market? ::blah:: ::blah::

I hope all this didn't bore anyone too bad. This stuff is about the handle patterns and all the other peripheral things, is interesting to me. As my wife can tell you, I can chase a rabbit trail all day!

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:15 pm

Thats a good bit of info there Dale, Hey Jeff, that Klein of yours would reprofile into a dandy EZ pull wharnecliffe- Nevermind me, I can't leave anything alone

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:21 pm

get that rabbit dale! it's not boring to me. that wood grain plastic on m. klein's knives seems pretty universal. i figure during the war the plastic handles were contracted and made by one company filling orders for klein and other gov. contractors. caryyover after the war would seem likley.

here is a small one blade klein i'm about to rehandle. it had the wood grain plastic and one side got melted.

hey mm, i'm thinking of modifying this one to a wharncliffe

agteacher2 · Post by **agteacher2** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:29 pm

HMMMMMM? I do like a wharncliff or is it wharnecliff or wharnecliffe.

I wonder what Bark Mammoth Ivory would look like for a handle?

Jeff

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:37 pm

how about wharnie?

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:02 am

I believe it is Wharncliffe! Confirmed by some of BF's British participants, and by google.
That would make a nice Wharncliffe, jonet143! Show us a pic when it's done!
http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/rod/knives/wharncliffe/

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:39 am

Yeah, it would make a nice wharnie, I bet mamoth bark would look just sweeet

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:40 am

Uh Oh, TL-29 go Boom! Won der how that happened?

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:06 am

Here is a single blade EDC Cammilus i just finished an hour or so ago.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:21 am

jonet143 wrote:here is a small one blade klein i'm about to rehandle. it had the wood grain plastic and one side got melted.

hey mm, i'm thinking of modifying this one to a wharnecliffe

Johnnie,
That would make a great Wharncliffe. I love a good Wharncliffe myself. It is a very useful blade.

I like your theory about the surplus plastic handles, just one thing bothers me about it though: I have not seen any World War II era TL-29s with that material on the handles. Even the ones that I saw issued in Vietnam were the black composite handles. Other than that it's a great theory

I hate it when the facts contradict a good theory, especially when the theory makes so much sense!

Another dead end rabbit trail.

Dale

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:46 am

MM,

Nice piece of work. I am thinking of doing that with one of the many Camillus TLs that I have, but I have been thinking of doing something different with the handles.

Take a look at the handles on these two. I like the way the handles get thicker at the back. It makes for a better grip when doing heavy cutting.

Dale

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:15 pm

Here is another TL type knife. It is a RIC-NOR CO./BOSTON, U.S.A.

I have no idea who made it, but if I had to guess I would say Imperial, sinply because this knife is a shell handle, though it is a bit different from the Imperial. The Ric-Nor has the handles fastened by tabs inside the liner while the Imperial is fastened with tabs at either end of the bolsters. Neither is as well-made as the other TL-29s previously listed.

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:48 pm

You saure do like your electricians knives Dale, some very nice examples you've listed, and not the last of them I'm sure. You've almost got me to likin' them, screwdriver and all

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:48 pm

The next thing you know MM, you will be taking apart TL-29s and making single blade screwdrivers out of them.

LMAO,
Dale

All About Pocket Knives

TL-29 Electricians Knives

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