Empire Knife Company

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Beechtree
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by Beechtree »

Congratulations Mike. Those are exciting patterns. They are in great condition and are really rare to see. Thanks for sharing.
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FRJ
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by FRJ »

Here's a little Empire that I will carry in the next few days. 3 1/4".
Attachments
DSCN2449.JPG
DSCN2447.JPG
DSCN2437.JPG
DSCN2439.JPG
DSCN2443.JPG
Joe
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danno50
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by danno50 »

Nice old whittler, Joe! ::tu::
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FRJ
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by FRJ »

Thanks, Dan. Action is very sound. Has a bit of wear.
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wlf
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by wlf »

As it's been noted,seems you find more Empire made knives not marked Empire than marked Empire.
Nice one Joe.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by FRJ »

Thanks, Lyle. ::tu::
I don't have any unmarked Empires.
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by wlf »

I meant marked Shapleigh,etc..
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf

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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by LongBlade »

Its an ol' beauty Joe ::tu:: ::tu:: How can you not like an an Empire with lots of character ::nod:: :D

In terms of finding knives with an Empire stamp - I had heard or actually read the same as Lyle alludes to above - and the reason is not because Empire did not make alot of knives but more likely is because they did more contract work than their own knife stamping for subsequent sale.... and thus finding Empire stamped knives is less likely than some others they may have made under contract.... I actually like Empire made knives even under contract work but truth is I don't find them easily either - and one needs to know the Empire knife characteristics to determine if the knife was made by Empire... I got lucky on that Shapleigh Cattle knife made by Empire I posted awhile back and no doubt took me some time to come to the conclusion it was Empire made...

In fact as I never posted it here - below is the Shapleigh Cattle Knife made by Empire (that I originally posted under General Discussion):
Shapleigh Cattle Knife - Empire  Mark Side DSCN8372A.jpg
Shapleigh Cattle Knife - Empire  Blades DSCN8381A.jpg
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by bighomer »

Those are fine looking knives Joe & longblade, I've bid on a couple on the bay mostly pretty well used up but have not got one yet. ::tu::
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steve99f
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by steve99f »

Great looking knives longblade and Joe.
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by gsmith7158 »

Joe, Lee a couple od nice ones there.
I just went back through this thread this morning and there are some great knives posted here.
Thanks for bringing this back to the top.
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Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.

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wlf
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by wlf »

All these are Empire made.This is from a Shapleigh catalog,and a close up of the type at the bottom of each DE page.
Attachments
Empire old green bone (2).jpg
DE Empire sales sample.jpg
Shapleigh 4  eighth whittler600.jpg
Shapleigh DE knives606.jpg
Shapleigh Hdwe Cat047.jpg
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf

May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
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Dinadan
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by Dinadan »

This thread has been an education for me. Thanks to all who contributed info. I do not think I have ever actually held an Empire knife, hopefully I will come across one someday.
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by kootenay joe »

Lyle, your Empire Whittler is a very fine example of a very fine knife. I have not seen that Empire pattern before, might be rather rare ?
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by bighomer »

Lyle that's a beaut. ::tu::
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by gsmith7158 »

Lyle those are great ones. Empire had some of the prettiest jigged bone of the period IMO. This thread has really perked me up. Can't wait to get home and show some of mine.
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Greg

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Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.

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wlf
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by wlf »

Thanks Fellas. Joe ,it's a big whittler at actually 4 1/4' I think on the same frame as their farmers jacks. A frame size and design that Schrade later used.

Both Empire and Schrade place the pivot pin of the main pruning blade in the meat of the bolster and not in the rat tail grove as all others I have seen. But they made their frames longer to accommodate this feature.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf

May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by danno50 »

Great knives, Lee and Lyle! ::tu::
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by LongBlade »

Thanks all for the comments on the Empire made Shapleigh Cattle knife... ::tu:: ::tu:: ... I got the best photos I could of that one knowing it is celluloid and no doubt can go "poof" due to the celluloid at any time... no doubt there has been some shrinkage on it at the bolsters and the top of the spey blade looks abit darker (but hasn't changed at all since I have owned it for the last 6 months or so) - the other blades and liners look fine so far - the blades do sport a deep grey patina and it is important to point out that the original owner of this knife did EDC it for many many years... I keep a close eye on this one and have it sitting within almost a daily view but not in the sun and in an area that doesn't change much at all in temperature or lighting... should it really start to outgas which is always a possibility and so unpredictable I will have the celluloid pulled and the knife rehandled in old ironwood that belonged to my Dad almost 50 years ago which will at least still make the knife special to me... Did I ever say I hate celluloid :D ... but for cattle knives celluloid was not unusual if you read BRL and this knife did not cost me alot in the end so I couldn't resist ::nod:: ...

Lyle - those are some real awesome additions buddy ::tu:: ::tu:: So the 2 farmer's jackals are indeed of interest to me as Empire made Shapleighs... One with a bar shield (though I have seen similar on knives stamped Empire which I have a few) but especially the second one in terms of the shield!! On the 2nd knife does the diamond shield have a DE inside?? Can't quite make it out... that would kill my suspicion that Empire made Shapleighs sported a diamond shield but they were plain and not stamped but I am not surprised that sometime during the Empire production of these that DE diamond shaped shields were used... just curious if you know... Also that Serpentiner whittler is very cool and different - if it wasn't marked as a whittler I would almost call it a wharncliffe stockman :D :D ... thanks for sharing that one ::nod:: ...
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by wlf »

That cattle knife has caused quite the looks in the knife world,but to keep your head below the clouds,your DE shield hypothesis is in a leaky cup. I grin
The catalog cut in the Col. Mayes book looks like a plain shield.

But how about this DE shield on this 1800s DE...

The one you asked about and a couple more ,last two being Schrades,still 4 1/4"... Notice the pin placement on the pruning end,you can see it on the first and last ones pretty easy.
Attachments
DE old Empire pickbone etch (3).jpg
DE AF Shapleigh Hardware  Co510.jpg
DE AF Shapleigh Hardware  Co511.jpg
DE Empire sales sample (4).jpg
DE Schrade (2).jpg
DE Shapleigh Hdw  french ivory.jpg
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf

May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
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LongBlade
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by LongBlade »

Lyle - :lol: - honestly the shield was the weakest part of my hypothesis (something I read from another forum & a post on Empire & Shapleigh - but the shield may have also been pocket worn ::nod:: )... It was based mostly on the punch having the Empire or Alvord patent # along with the swedges of the blades which no doubt were similar to my other Empire patterns... Personally I do see some differences among companies as to the swedge along with the pull... Nonetheless I do have the Col Mays book now and my cattle knife is not in the Shapleigh catalog, but importantly this is only one catalog over many years of Empire made Shapleighs so I am not surprised....

Pin placement is another good point but to me tougher to nail down unless perhaps you look across multiple knives...

Good discussion and food for thought ::hmm::
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by wlf »

I wouldn't doubt your theory of plain diamond shields being Empire made, just not all Empire DE being plain. As you can see I showed two different DE's made by Empire without even a diamond shaped shield, and I expect many more were made.

I think both my whittler and your cattle knife are older patterns, as neither are in Mayes. I am referencing the whittler as DE although it is not marked DE,but listed in Voyles' book as such.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]

GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf

May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
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LongBlade
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by LongBlade »

wlf wrote:I wouldn't doubt your theory of plain diamond shields being Empire made, just not all Empire DE being plain. As you can see I showed two different DE's made by Empire without even a diamond shaped shield, and I expect many more were made.

I think both my whittler and your cattle knife are older patterns, as neither are in Mayes. I am referencing the whittler as DE although it is not marked DE,but listed in Voyles' book as such.
I agree 100% Lyle ::nod:: - pretty evident in Mays book that Empire used different shields for Shapleigh as you say... though as the shields were sketches I just wonder in terms of the diamond shield if the DE was just not sketched into the figures... inquiring minds want to know ::nod:: :) ....

I always wonder what the original cutlers/workers would say or do if they knew of our discussions - most likely laughing so hard they would be falling down ::rotflol:: :lol:
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gsmith7158
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by gsmith7158 »

Here are a few of my Empires.
Attachments
015.jpg
014.jpg
------------------

Greg

IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.

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philco
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Re: Empire Knife Company

Post by philco »

Lyle those are some pretty decent old junkers. ::woot::


Good stuff my friend. ::tu::

edit: Lawsy mercy Greg. You got some good stuff there buddy.
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