Empire Knife Company
Re: Empire Knife Company
Congratulations Mike. Those are exciting patterns. They are in great condition and are really rare to see. Thanks for sharing.
"A tool is but an extension of a man's hand." -Henry Ward Beecher
Re: Empire Knife Company
As it's been noted,seems you find more Empire made knives not marked Empire than marked Empire.
Nice one Joe.
Nice one Joe.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: Empire Knife Company
I meant marked Shapleigh,etc..
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: Empire Knife Company
Its an ol' beauty Joe How can you not like an an Empire with lots of character
In terms of finding knives with an Empire stamp - I had heard or actually read the same as Lyle alludes to above - and the reason is not because Empire did not make alot of knives but more likely is because they did more contract work than their own knife stamping for subsequent sale.... and thus finding Empire stamped knives is less likely than some others they may have made under contract.... I actually like Empire made knives even under contract work but truth is I don't find them easily either - and one needs to know the Empire knife characteristics to determine if the knife was made by Empire... I got lucky on that Shapleigh Cattle knife made by Empire I posted awhile back and no doubt took me some time to come to the conclusion it was Empire made...
In fact as I never posted it here - below is the Shapleigh Cattle Knife made by Empire (that I originally posted under General Discussion):
In terms of finding knives with an Empire stamp - I had heard or actually read the same as Lyle alludes to above - and the reason is not because Empire did not make alot of knives but more likely is because they did more contract work than their own knife stamping for subsequent sale.... and thus finding Empire stamped knives is less likely than some others they may have made under contract.... I actually like Empire made knives even under contract work but truth is I don't find them easily either - and one needs to know the Empire knife characteristics to determine if the knife was made by Empire... I got lucky on that Shapleigh Cattle knife made by Empire I posted awhile back and no doubt took me some time to come to the conclusion it was Empire made...
In fact as I never posted it here - below is the Shapleigh Cattle Knife made by Empire (that I originally posted under General Discussion):
____________________________________________________________________________
Lee
Lee
Re: Empire Knife Company
Those are fine looking knives Joe & longblade, I've bid on a couple on the bay mostly pretty well used up but have not got one yet.
- gsmith7158
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 8548
- Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:25 pm
- Location: Canton, Ga. 100% of the time
- Contact:
Re: Empire Knife Company
Joe, Lee a couple od nice ones there.
I just went back through this thread this morning and there are some great knives posted here.
Thanks for bringing this back to the top.
I just went back through this thread this morning and there are some great knives posted here.
Thanks for bringing this back to the top.
------------------
Greg
IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.
PROUD MEMBER AAPK, NRA.
Greg
IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.
PROUD MEMBER AAPK, NRA.
Re: Empire Knife Company
All these are Empire made.This is from a Shapleigh catalog,and a close up of the type at the bottom of each DE page.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: Empire Knife Company
This thread has been an education for me. Thanks to all who contributed info. I do not think I have ever actually held an Empire knife, hopefully I will come across one someday.
Mel
-
- Posts: 13373
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm
- Location: West Kootenays, B.C.
Re: Empire Knife Company
Lyle, your Empire Whittler is a very fine example of a very fine knife. I have not seen that Empire pattern before, might be rather rare ?
kj
kj
Re: Empire Knife Company
Lyle that's a beaut.
- gsmith7158
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 8548
- Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:25 pm
- Location: Canton, Ga. 100% of the time
- Contact:
Re: Empire Knife Company
Lyle those are great ones. Empire had some of the prettiest jigged bone of the period IMO. This thread has really perked me up. Can't wait to get home and show some of mine.
------------------
Greg
IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.
PROUD MEMBER AAPK, NRA.
Greg
IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.
PROUD MEMBER AAPK, NRA.
Re: Empire Knife Company
Thanks Fellas. Joe ,it's a big whittler at actually 4 1/4' I think on the same frame as their farmers jacks. A frame size and design that Schrade later used.
Both Empire and Schrade place the pivot pin of the main pruning blade in the meat of the bolster and not in the rat tail grove as all others I have seen. But they made their frames longer to accommodate this feature.
Both Empire and Schrade place the pivot pin of the main pruning blade in the meat of the bolster and not in the rat tail grove as all others I have seen. But they made their frames longer to accommodate this feature.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: Empire Knife Company
Thanks all for the comments on the Empire made Shapleigh Cattle knife... ... I got the best photos I could of that one knowing it is celluloid and no doubt can go "poof" due to the celluloid at any time... no doubt there has been some shrinkage on it at the bolsters and the top of the spey blade looks abit darker (but hasn't changed at all since I have owned it for the last 6 months or so) - the other blades and liners look fine so far - the blades do sport a deep grey patina and it is important to point out that the original owner of this knife did EDC it for many many years... I keep a close eye on this one and have it sitting within almost a daily view but not in the sun and in an area that doesn't change much at all in temperature or lighting... should it really start to outgas which is always a possibility and so unpredictable I will have the celluloid pulled and the knife rehandled in old ironwood that belonged to my Dad almost 50 years ago which will at least still make the knife special to me... Did I ever say I hate celluloid ... but for cattle knives celluloid was not unusual if you read BRL and this knife did not cost me alot in the end so I couldn't resist ...
Lyle - those are some real awesome additions buddy So the 2 farmer's jackals are indeed of interest to me as Empire made Shapleighs... One with a bar shield (though I have seen similar on knives stamped Empire which I have a few) but especially the second one in terms of the shield!! On the 2nd knife does the diamond shield have a DE inside?? Can't quite make it out... that would kill my suspicion that Empire made Shapleighs sported a diamond shield but they were plain and not stamped but I am not surprised that sometime during the Empire production of these that DE diamond shaped shields were used... just curious if you know... Also that Serpentiner whittler is very cool and different - if it wasn't marked as a whittler I would almost call it a wharncliffe stockman ... thanks for sharing that one ...
Lyle - those are some real awesome additions buddy So the 2 farmer's jackals are indeed of interest to me as Empire made Shapleighs... One with a bar shield (though I have seen similar on knives stamped Empire which I have a few) but especially the second one in terms of the shield!! On the 2nd knife does the diamond shield have a DE inside?? Can't quite make it out... that would kill my suspicion that Empire made Shapleighs sported a diamond shield but they were plain and not stamped but I am not surprised that sometime during the Empire production of these that DE diamond shaped shields were used... just curious if you know... Also that Serpentiner whittler is very cool and different - if it wasn't marked as a whittler I would almost call it a wharncliffe stockman ... thanks for sharing that one ...
____________________________________________________________________________
Lee
Lee
Re: Empire Knife Company
That cattle knife has caused quite the looks in the knife world,but to keep your head below the clouds,your DE shield hypothesis is in a leaky cup. I grin
The catalog cut in the Col. Mayes book looks like a plain shield.
But how about this DE shield on this 1800s DE...
The one you asked about and a couple more ,last two being Schrades,still 4 1/4"... Notice the pin placement on the pruning end,you can see it on the first and last ones pretty easy.
The catalog cut in the Col. Mayes book looks like a plain shield.
But how about this DE shield on this 1800s DE...
The one you asked about and a couple more ,last two being Schrades,still 4 1/4"... Notice the pin placement on the pruning end,you can see it on the first and last ones pretty easy.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: Empire Knife Company
Lyle - - honestly the shield was the weakest part of my hypothesis (something I read from another forum & a post on Empire & Shapleigh - but the shield may have also been pocket worn )... It was based mostly on the punch having the Empire or Alvord patent # along with the swedges of the blades which no doubt were similar to my other Empire patterns... Personally I do see some differences among companies as to the swedge along with the pull... Nonetheless I do have the Col Mays book now and my cattle knife is not in the Shapleigh catalog, but importantly this is only one catalog over many years of Empire made Shapleighs so I am not surprised....
Pin placement is another good point but to me tougher to nail down unless perhaps you look across multiple knives...
Good discussion and food for thought
Pin placement is another good point but to me tougher to nail down unless perhaps you look across multiple knives...
Good discussion and food for thought
____________________________________________________________________________
Lee
Lee
Re: Empire Knife Company
I wouldn't doubt your theory of plain diamond shields being Empire made, just not all Empire DE being plain. As you can see I showed two different DE's made by Empire without even a diamond shaped shield, and I expect many more were made.
I think both my whittler and your cattle knife are older patterns, as neither are in Mayes. I am referencing the whittler as DE although it is not marked DE,but listed in Voyles' book as such.
I think both my whittler and your cattle knife are older patterns, as neither are in Mayes. I am referencing the whittler as DE although it is not marked DE,but listed in Voyles' book as such.
I buy roosters combs and farmers..........................................................jack knives [/b]
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
GEC SFOs and others at LICK CREEK CUTLERY- www.allaboutpocketknives.com/wlf
May the Father and Son bless
Lyle
Re: Empire Knife Company
I agree 100% Lyle - pretty evident in Mays book that Empire used different shields for Shapleigh as you say... though as the shields were sketches I just wonder in terms of the diamond shield if the DE was just not sketched into the figures... inquiring minds want to know ....wlf wrote:I wouldn't doubt your theory of plain diamond shields being Empire made, just not all Empire DE being plain. As you can see I showed two different DE's made by Empire without even a diamond shaped shield, and I expect many more were made.
I think both my whittler and your cattle knife are older patterns, as neither are in Mayes. I am referencing the whittler as DE although it is not marked DE,but listed in Voyles' book as such.
I always wonder what the original cutlers/workers would say or do if they knew of our discussions - most likely laughing so hard they would be falling down
____________________________________________________________________________
Lee
Lee
- gsmith7158
- Gold Tier
- Posts: 8548
- Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:25 pm
- Location: Canton, Ga. 100% of the time
- Contact:
Re: Empire Knife Company
Here are a few of my Empires.
------------------
Greg
IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.
PROUD MEMBER AAPK, NRA.
Greg
IF YOU AIN'T BUYING OR LOOKING AT A KNIFE THEN YOU AIN'T LIVING.
Always looking to buy good quality Empire knives.
PROUD MEMBER AAPK, NRA.
Re: Empire Knife Company
Lyle those are some pretty decent old junkers.
Good stuff my friend.
edit: Lawsy mercy Greg. You got some good stuff there buddy.
Good stuff my friend.
edit: Lawsy mercy Greg. You got some good stuff there buddy.
Phil
AAPK Administrator
Jesus died for you. Are you living for Him?
"Buy More Ammo!"
Johnnie Fain 1949-2009
AAPK Administrator
Jesus died for you. Are you living for Him?
"Buy More Ammo!"
Johnnie Fain 1949-2009