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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:26 pm 
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I thought I had read mention of an Ebay Korn when I first read through this thread, so when I saw it on Ebay, I didn't bring it to anyone's attention.

The knife has not sold, as yet. Bid in the mid $500.00 range.

Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT


LT, you have accumulated a fabulous collection and a wealth of historical data. I wish you the best with the museum.

Charlie Noyes

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:06 am 
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Thanks for the link ::tu::

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:09 pm 
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Did you see how much that Korn knife closed for? $4,406.91 :shock: WOW!!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:17 am 
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Actually I was working on a new storage shed and stopped to come in and watch the end of the auction. I was wondering if anyone was going to mention it on this thread. I have been watching this all week as I had mentioned earlier. $4406 for a piece which is being sold as broken will not stay shut will not fire with a nicked rusted undoubtibly pitted blade. Now for anyone who has not ever actually handled one of these it should be noted that the actions on these (mid 1880tys ) is of a floating bolster type the bolster on one side is always loose kind of sitting on a spring the blade is released when the bolster is pressed pushing a lever ( actually a little piece sticking up under the bolster down. ). It is a flakey ( er uncertain ) action at best. it constantly needs minor adjustments. This one is certainly not in mint or even operable condition. I took mine out and went over it carefully and then looked up the patent and checked the patent diagram ( By the way a copy of this diagram can be found in Mark Ericksons book American switchblades ) I also checked over some other patent material I had access to. I contacted the seller after spending considerable time looking at the pictures. I asked for a pic showing the inside of the handle to see the condition of the spring which ( among other things I thought or think might be broken or missing ) According to the seller it was or may be short ( broken on the bolster side. This of course would explain alot. Regarding the knife not staying open or closed. This is not a slip in spring and is an integrel part of the knife so it should prove interesting to repair or replace. The KORN is considered the first US switchblade patent . There is controversy as to whether these were actually made in Germany at least some of them. I am not going into that however there have been some reasons to believe this, also there are some other patents which challenge it being the first which is mainly due to definition of what you called an automatic. I do not want to be embroiled in this either. Suffice it to say that the KORN is certainly a valid important part of this history. Now regarding this piece the handles which are Gutta Percha ( which is kind of a tree sap early rubber type material ) are beautiful these are often as in this case molded to show a picture or scene. As to materials these were made in stag, Gutta percha , and pearl. While stag and pearl can be replaced especially pearl. The original stag is usually identifiable by reference to original examples . Pearl is the easiest to replace since original pearl is the toughest to discern usually minute chips and some aging are the only clues. Gutta percha is to all intents an obsolete material and therefore usually original. This piece is restorable and it will not be until it is carefully checked as to whether it will be a relatively major or minor restoration or if the buyer actually wants to restore the piece at all. I kept looking at the piece all week and thinking about whether or not I wanted to take a shot at it. A couple of times I almost took a flyer on it as it turns out all I would have been doing was confusing the issue since frankly I was in the 3000 dollar range. I am not surprised on the final price of this piece. While like everything else a lot of items have taken a price plunge as in most collector fields the really rare high end stuff maintains its value.

Earlier in this thread I posted a picture of an old english Lingard Peacroft pearl penrelease folding dirk. This knife carries a date of 1850 on the blade. I bring this up because I bought it on ebay but it is an example of what this relatively new type of buying procedure has done to the commerce of these types of items. I had searched for one of these for some time (decades). The last one I almost bought went for 13,500 dollars. I was actually in contact with a very well known dealer on the west coast he owns the stag one of these with crossguard that appears in Levine 4 the price was considerably more than 13,500. when this one appeared. It was a mess the seller wrote that he could not get it to open unless he pried it open. When I read that I took a gulp and wrote him ( JUST PRESS THE PEN BLADE ). He wrote back thankyou yes that released the blade and it would throw correctly. The knife was a mess the top bolster was spread every thing loose it kind of had to be held together to make it work . The pearl a bit chipped ( but not unreasonably) . Coping pen blade broken a third of the way. In general it looked like parts. However this story is why I cannot impress the importance of knowing your history, patents and the study of your subject. As I gazed at this Lingard I dimly remembered a small fact. This Lingard was made in 1850 however back then the materials they used in the bolsters were quite soft. People then were like people now human nature does not change as a result when someone had an automatic knife they played with them as a result the soft materials in the bolsters would wear the knife would loosen and spread. This was so prevelent that in 1870 ( approx I would have to look up the exact date ) someone pattened a device ( kind of a rivit sheath which was used in knife bolsters which acted to keep the soft pewter silver and similar bolster materials from wearing). Since 1850 is before 1870 ( see even I knew that ) I thought that perhapes this might be the only problem with this piece. Usually when this waring took place the knife was just put away for a few generations until an attic or similar was cleaned out. In fact that is just where this one was found the seller was cleaning out an estate. He had no idea what it was. So there I sat staring at this broken 160 year old handful of parts and wondering if I should go with my instinct . I was surprised that it did not go higher or that there were not more bidders but there were a few. If I remember correctly the final price was under 3,000 which if I had judged incorrectly is alot to pay for a broken knife. When the piece arrived I took it to a jeweler friend of mine frankly I didn't even inspect it to closely just a cursory check since I figgured win lose or draw it was to late to worry about it.

Now once upon a time there might have been five men in the country who did this kind of work you would send them a piece and wait 5 years and they could fix anything they could weld blades make parts anything they charged an arm and a leg were all prima donnas who would not be rushed and would tolerate nothing from any body they were artists. Then along came a $30,000 machine called the laser welder and anyone who could do watch repair or similar and could use that machine could work magic with broken knives.

That being said I gave the Lingard and the correct (coping ) blade ( you collect a lot of old unique parts over 60 years ) all in an envelope ,of parts) . I then explained what I felt was wrong with the knife and left. About 2 weeks later I could contain myself no longer so I gave him a call to see how the knife was coming along. His answer was nonchalant you were right all that it needed was beefing up the interior of the bolsters and sleeving it when I put it back together it works like it is new. The reason I have related this story is because if you know your subject and get lucky sometimes ebay can produce an opportunity which was never available in the past. I have told this story before so if you have heard it my apology. I could not resist telling it since I can almost see that new owner of that KORN opening up that priority package and wondering if he just spent 4400 dollars on a handful of useless parts or a historic treasure. LT

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:18 pm 
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Rich,

Great story, I enjoyed reading it :D

lt632ret wrote:
Now once upon a time there might have been five men in the country who did this kind of work you would send them a piece and wait 5 years and they could fix anything they could weld blades make parts anything they charged an arm and a leg were all prima donnas who would not be rushed and would tolerate nothing from any body they were artists. Then along came a $30,000 machine called the laser welder and anyone who could do watch repair or similar and could use that machine could work magic with broken knives.


How true, and there are several people doing just that, working their "majic" and selling them on fleabay ::disgust::

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Very true one of the most prevelant misuses of selling restored as original are the electro plate names of the models such as the press button victor, or business ect models which have been appearing with more and more regularity . Finding an original old knife with the electro etch can significantly increase the value of a collector piece. Finding one with the etch used to be a really rare event. The electro etch is the first thing to go especially if the knife is or has been used at all. Therefore it used to be that if a knife was in really great shape and had the etch it was original. Now with the ease that an electro pattern can be purchased to specs, and applied by anyone with a inexpensive machine exactly the opposite is true seeing a knife with an etch is almost a red flag ( unless you know the seller or the history (provanance) of the piece ) to stay away if you do not want a restored piece. I almost feel about etched pieces as I do about D guard civil war knives they are just to easy and afford such large returns that it just not worth the chance. Restoration pieces are in the eye of the beholder I have my own opinions . If something is known to be original that is how it should be marketed, If work has been done on it that should be made known. I have no problem with a piece of history being returned to restored original however that fact should when possible be known to the buyer. That is just my opinion. I very seldom ever sell anything anymore ( who knows perhapes some day that will change ) however when I do sell a piece I always make it a point to explain everything I know about a piece. Frankly a lot of buyers out there often do not recognize a doctored piece and some are quite offended and go into violent denial when they are advised that they spent a lot of money for something that is not original. As I said before for better or worse it is all part of the new rules regarding this field of endeaver. I guess knives are not the only artifacts that fall into this quandry I recently read of a number of new bibical artifact finds that have all been proven to be out right fakes. At least a restored knife lets you see an item from the past as it looked and saves it for the future. LT

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:12 am 
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lt632ret wrote:
If something is known to be original that is how it should be marketed, If work has been done on it that should be made known.


In a perfect world, yes. In this world never or very rarely will it ever happen. See, you have to figure in the GREED factor. People can and will do anything for MONEY, so why not doctor up an old knife, buff it real good and put it on fleabay and let the sharks have at it.

lt632ret wrote:
Frankly a lot of buyers out there often do not recognize a doctored piece and some are quite offended and go into violent denial when they are advised that they spent a lot of money for something that is not original.


Did this one time, Never again. The buyer thought I was crazy and did not know what I was talking about. His response was " I have bought many knives from this seller, he would not do that" :roll: Sure he wouldn`t :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:53 am 
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What can I say you are correct. Right and wrong no longer seem to matter. The motto seems to be if you can get away with something it is OK to do. Idiot insurance claims. Financial lies, deals on the job kickbacks ect . Have a car accident instant whiplash. It is almost considered a windfall , fraudulent disability, welfare abuse , but most of all politics. Again right and wrong have nothing to do with how things are done. When I wrote the bill to establish a procedure to legally display and to clarify the automatic knife laws in NYS it took 8 years to have it passed into law. The cost to the people must have been amazing just the procedural cost . However the year that best exemplfys the way the system functions was I believe year 7 the bill sailed through the senate. Then it went to committee everyone complimented me on the idea of establishing a museum to save a viable and I feel somewhat important part of american history. ( especially since now these products are being made in CHINA) I was lauded what a guy I was, not only that, but I have tens of thousands of dollars of artifacts which would (barring the unforseen ) someday be donated to posterity, all these legislators thought it and I, were great. The bill went to committee in the assembly I spoke to them they all thought that I, and the idea of what I was doing was the greatest thing since white bread. Then they would say sorry but the bill will not come out of committee this year. I was amazed WHY what the hell was I missing. Well here it is the majority of the assembly people were from downstate near NYC . In order to pass the bill through the senate one part of it had been changed, it seems, so that a knife museum with automatics could not be started in NYC ( due to NYC own idiot laws regarding knives ) they amended my bill to say that no area with 250,000 people could have such a museum. This didn't matter upstate in this area since we don't have 250,000 critters let alone people so since the museum was to be upstate it posed no problem. Except that the Assembly people on its committee were mainly from the NYC area. So while they all felt that it was a great bill, a great idea, and I was a great guy. They would not vote to take it out of committee until another bill came up in the future which would benefit them and did not affect upstate. You see they could not vote or pass on it no matter how correct, right , or good an idea it might be until they got something out of the deal for them as a trade. So there you have it the innermost functions of the most dysfunctional government in the country the NYS legislature. Luckily it was passed the following year and it snuck through with out anymore problems now why would I say that, (snuck) it was one of the few bills signed by Eliot Spitzer ( remember love client number 9 ) before he was forced to resign. Actually I was half waiting for them to recind any laws he may have signed , However they didn't and it is the law. Can you imagine the scope of this confusion, deceit, greed, and stupidity when you multipy this one small bill with what goes on at the federal level. ( you have to talk to some of these legislators to really understand how little they really know about anything that comes before them or how little they care. ). There aides and law people are really the only ones who make any decisions or who you actually deal with. How many times do you see a legislator die and his wife runs for the office ( just so that things will procede as usual. it show how much they actually do ) You could put a stief 1903 teddy bear in the postition and it will still continue to run business as usual. Strangly enough all the legislators make salarys but are millionaires. Yes as I said you are correct.

When I used to sell or trade knives at shows or on ebay or even now my policy which (was in the ad ) would state if you are not happy with this knife or this transaction for any reason your fault my fault whatever ( I do not need to know your reason for disatisfation unless it is important to you for me to know ) please just send it back in the condition you received it for a full refund . Please accept my apology for any inconvience . If you ain't happy then neither am I and my reputation and name are worth more to me than any knife ever made.
Luckily I never had to make my living doing this so I guess that is why my policy could be so liberal. LT

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:06 am 
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Yeah, I can just imagine the RED TAPE involved in doing anything when it comes to the local or federal government. We had a similar experience here in N.H., luckily for us knife collectors we can now own ANY knife made Automatic, Dirk, etc. Common sense has prevailed and the law was passed rather quickly.

Is it legal for you as a collector to own a switchblade in N.Y. state or does the law just cover a museum??

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm 
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In New York state the law states that switchblades are illegal. However as with most laws there are exceptions. One of those exceptions states that anyone with a valid NYS hunting fishing or trapping license may posess an automatic ( switchblade ect ) gravity ect knife . This can be carried when the person is hunting fishing or trapping. It is a stupid type loophole law however it does do something logical and correct it allows ownership and frankly the part about carrying is another example of the nebulus nature of these original laws. If you have a tackle box in the car if you have a fishing rod in the car. In fact if you are carrying a gun then you are automaticly legal since you may have been on your way hunting. If asked by an authority why you have an automatic knife on you were you going fishing or hunting a simple yes is all that is needed ( along with a license ) if asked when, all that you really have to say is before my licence runs out. In fact when explaining these stupid laws to an assemblyman in Albany he said to me I do not know why we are here it is illegal that is that. I then pulled out a copy of the actual law and pointed out the exceptions . I then did not make any points when I stated that I had been a NYS peace officer for 26 years and as such had always felt that as such it behooved me to understand the laws I was enforcing . I then said that I had always been under the impression that this rule should extend to the legislators who passed these laws but apparently I had been mistaken. He did not appreciate my sarcasm. However a memo did go out to all the justices of the peace in NYS to advise there officers before confiscating automatic knives to first check to see if the person had a hunting fishing or trapping license.

Please be aware that NYC has its own laws regarding guns pocket knives. These insane morons under the crime fighting manhatten DA in his quest to make a name and move on the bigger and better things ( wealthy old political family ). Has begun a campaign to straighten out all the violence problems in NYC by confiscating as illegal virtually all pocket knives sold in NYC you know camping knives any pocket knives in fact in one raid on home depot regular slipjoints were deemed a menace to society if ( NOW GET THIS ) if by grasping the blade by the notch and whipping your arm it could be partially opened. They have no idea of reality and apparently cannot read a legal description . I can only assume that after wiping out the pocket knife menace in New York City he will be moving on to make other common simple tools illegal. Then he can move on the anything that can be used as a weapon which I guess will include rocks. THEY ARE NUTS.

I have discussed the NH law with several people including Evan Nappen ( a good man ) . I was so impressed with it that if I was younger and not so invested in what I am doing I would consider moving there. However here is what you must remember. All of these Knife laws are constitutionally illegal. If this was ever taken to the supreme court it would be shown to be a blatant obvious violation of the second amendment. These are leftover bullshit laws enacted for stupid reasons like juvenile delinquent movies ( can you imagine with todays gangs worrying about a pocket knife today gangs have arsenals and drive by shooting) ) or politicians who wanted to make a name for themselves. Macarthy had commys Kevfhauer had switchblades. What happened in NH and Oregon was that someone took the issue to court. When that happens it goes up the judicial ladder however once the subject gets to a top state level the state capitulates and agrees to legalize in that state. This happens because if it continues to a federal level all of these laws would be thrown out. You can get a gun permit and carry a glock to church but a 3 inch 100 year old Schrade double with a spring akin to bobby pin can get you a couple of years in Rahway in NJ. Come on you cannot pray in school due to constitutional rights you can carry a pistol due to constitutions rights. But a hundred year old artifact well now that is illegal. How do you deny the right to carry a simple tool. Even with todays supreme court justices they would all be expunged.

The law i wrote does allow for others who are members of a historical museum to carry and own automatics ( under certain circumstances ) for displays shows. educational purposes and others so it is a start. One interesting point regarding my law was that as a civilian ( you know a simple taxpayer ). I did not have the right to inquire to the Attorney general regarding what the laws were pertaining to the display of these items. Oh I could inquire however there policy and they are not mandated to answer such inquirys, as such since there was no such procedure for these items it ment that if you did so you were at the mercy of what ever the whim of interpretation of any enforcment agency felt was there policy on any given day. The only way I got an answer from the attorney general acknowledging that there was no legal display procedure in place was by sending my inquiry under the auspices of the municipality in which the museum was to be. While still not mandated by law to answer, there procedure is that for a municipality of agency inquiry they will respond. Getting the answer allowed me to press forward with the bill.

As you can see our small museum and the idea it enbolds to save this American history has been a long fight and frankly I wonder if it is worth the effort. I think of the American sweat and blood the American ideals and familys that came to this country the part these people played in our nation from the american steel forged into the tools that helped keep us free . I am an old emotional man I have known 5 generations of these familys I have known the sons and daughters who have gone on to contribute in other fields doctors teachers soldiers these were the true products of this industry ( the familys. ) In my minds eye I see a young man away from home fighting for MY no OUR freedom in a far away place with nothing between himself and eternity but a blood red piece of strong american steel in his hand be it civil, spanish, WWI WWII Korea Viet Nam or any of the other conflicts Then and now. The strength of that steel and the resolve of those people I feel should not be forgotten. Frankly as time goes on and we proceed I wonder if I will ever see the task completed I cannot begin to tell of the other aspects of this project which had had to be over come and frankly it is extremely frustrating to see the lack of concern and interest of even those who were an immediate part of this history . I also realize that this is just one cause in a long list and it is not the top priority in things that need change however as i said i am an old guy and I tend to ramble so thanks for bearing with me. LT

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:37 pm 
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lt632ret wrote:
In New York state the law states that switchblades are illegal. However as with most laws there are exceptions. One of those exceptions states that anyone with a valid NYS hunting fishing or trapping license may posess an automatic ( switchblade ect ) gravity ect knife .


Well, that is better than nothing. But I agree it is a stupid law.

lt632ret wrote:
Please be aware that NYC has its own laws regarding guns pocket knives. These insane morons under the crime fighting manhatten DA in his quest to make a name and move on the bigger and better things ( wealthy old political family ). Has begun a campaign to straighten out all the violence problems in NYC by confiscating as illegal virtually all pocket knives sold in NYC you know camping knives any pocket knives in fact in one raid on home depot regular slipjoints were deemed a menace to society if ( NOW GET THIS ) if by grasping the blade by the notch and whipping your arm it could be partially opened. They have no idea of reality and apparently cannot read a legal description . I can only assume that after wiping out the pocket knife menace in New York City he will be moving on to make other common simple tools illegal. Then he can move on the anything that can be used as a weapon which I guess will include rocks. THEY ARE NUTS.


Guns & Knives are banned in NYC, yet still so much crime and murder, is the law working??
It`s all political, banning knives makes for good headline news for the politician in office trying to make a name for himself, as you pointed out about this Manhatten DA.

What is next for NYC, a raid on all the restaurants to confiscate their carving knives :lol:


lt632ret wrote:
I have discussed the NH law with several people including Evan Nappen ( a good man ) . I was so impressed with it that if I was younger and not so invested in what I am doing I would consider moving there.


Come on over! Plenty of room for more knife collectors here ::nod::


lt632ret wrote:
What happened in NH and Oregon was that someone took the issue to court. When that happens it goes up the judicial ladder however once the subject gets to a top state level the state capitulates and agrees to legalize in that state.


I believe, now don`t quote me on this!, the bill was written by Jennifer Coffey, she was an EMT, she was looking to buy an auto knife and found out it would be illegal for her to possess when she was off duty. She challenged it and finally the new law was signed into law.


lt632ret wrote:
As you can see our small museum and the idea it enbolds to save this American history has been a long fight and frankly I wonder if it is worth the effort.


It is well worth the effort ::nod:: I appreciate what you have done so far, any knife collector here should realize that ::tu:: Keep up the good work :wink:

PS, So technically when Schrade was still in business their factory collection of switchblades was illegal and could have been seized :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:04 am 
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Regarding the Schrade collection, Again due to the nebulus nature and ambiguiity of the law legality was up to the interpretation of any given represenative of any enforcment agency depending upon the whim or descretion of the day. Ask Evan about what happened in PENN years ago an incumbent sherriff was having the annual knife show in his town. He called his people in and told them to confiscate all automatics he wanted to get some publicity for reelection. Now in Penn they have a codisil for collectors in the law however this is how he chose to interpret the law that day. Even though the show had been held for years with no problem. The result was a massive legal nightmare. Expensive knives were confiscated and marked with evidence numbers. there were court and legal cost on both sides. Finally after years all the charges were dropped the owners got back there mutilated artifacts and in general it was a nightmare. The same possibility existed in NY only the result would have been even worse since the New York law is even more vague than the Penn laws. I would not allow that possibility to happen to my collection I spent 26 years working in NY correctional facilitys if someone on a whim confiscates my Case clasp zipper and then gives it back etched with evidence and a number I am afraid my reaction would end up with me spending the rest of my life back in those same facilitys ( without being allowed to go home at night). When I was the watch commander and new officers would transfer in one of my quotes to them was ( Stupid laws may well be legal however it makes them no less stupid and laws that are enforced unequally are worse than no laws at all. ). The other thing to remember is that when it comes to the law nothing is implied if it is not specific and you are dependent upon someones good will or opinion to determine enforcment what you have is not law you have corruption. Actually unfortunately in many cases you have NYS. LT PS correct on the NH law however the reasons I mentioned were also part of there decision to legalize rather than attempt to enforce what was an untenable position. If persued all of these laws would go the same way. At least that is my opinion and a lot of other people in the field. If Schrade had been allowed to continue to produce automatics they may well have still been in business. However it seems these laws only apply to American competing firms because the cheap imports automatics keep pouring in every day all over the country. I am pretty long winded but, it is impossible to address every aspect of this entire subject by email from the laws to the history to the corruption ect it would take volumes and it seems since no one else is responding you and I are apparently the only people reading this or feel it is even worthy of discussuin. Glad you are here at least I get to vent . LT

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:32 am 
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lt632ret wrote:
If Schrade had been allowed to continue to produce automatics they may well have still been in business. However it seems these laws only apply to American competing firms because the cheap imports automatics keep pouring in every day all over the country.


They have been pouring in since the ban in 1958. I guess the govt. does not mind illegal stuff being imported into this country, but American companies cannot make them?

If Schrade continued making switchblades after 1958 and selling them the govt. would have come down hard on them it would have been big news all over the country. I can see it now "Schrade Cut. Co. caught making illegal switchblade knives, govt. confiscates all knives" Yet, the imports keep coming in for 52 years and ,I don`t know about you but I have never heard anything about any switchblade knives being confiscated from any import company.

lt632ret wrote:
it seems since no one else is responding you and I are apparently the only people reading this or feel it is even worthy of discussuin.


They are probably reading it but don`t know what to say about all this. There is a very small percentage of collectors that spend much time here in Knife Lore. This is where I spend most of my time ::nod::

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:25 am 
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LT and MB
I think i can shed some light on to why there is not many responses to this thread
I feel like i am back to my childhood...when there is a conversation taking place and in that exchange of words there are lessons or history to be learned, i would pay close attention to what was being told and hope that some day i would be able to add to the conversation. My knowledge of the history of knives is just beginning, so to be able to sit here and read the lessons that you are teaching is invaluble to others and myself. You are the professors and we are the students and out of respect and to some extent awe, We dont know what can be said that will add to the lessons that you are teaching
I find the knife lore forum to be of great intrest I enjoy learning the history of the great american knife and tool companies of days gone by
Collectors/historians like yourselves is much needed, not only do you value the knife but also the history behind them, and you are always willing to pass it along to others like myself .With that being said PLEASE continue with your lessons WE are listening and learning.
LT Thanks for sharing the museum with us
Travman


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:54 pm
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Heck thanks for coming in I was starting to feel like it was the SETI project you know where they keep sending signals and waiting to hear from ET. Seriously thanks for the nice words and showing your interest. I had a friend his name was John Clark he worked for New York knife in 1917. he past away a few years ago at the age of 105 or 106. The last I spoke to him was when he was 104. He lived about 3 miles from me on an old back road. The last time I saw him he could not talk to long since he had to finish cleaning his storm windows ( the old style that you took off every year aw hell none of you probably even remember them just as well they were a pain in the ass.) Anyway he was 104 cleaning his windows and rushing around because he had to go on a church trip upstate for a old folks get together he assured me that the old widows there were great especially if you could get a couple of the special bloody marys they served, down them. John once told me the story of when he got fired for not coming to work at NYK one day. It seems the foreman called him in to ask why he had been absent and inquired if he had been sick. John would not lie so he told him that he had gone squirrel hunting . The foreman fired him since he could not have workers taking off to go hunting even if it was to feed his family. However he told John that he was a hard worker and obviously honest so he gave him a recomendation and told John to go down the block to Walden knife ( always known as the lower shop about a half mile downstream from NYK) for a job and he was working the next day. He told me that he never did that again since if he lost that job there was only one more factory in town, Schrade, where he could go for a job. John was a good worker he told me how he had pestered his foreman for a year about a raise and how proud the foreman was when he came to him one day and proclaimed that finally he had gone to bat for him and the higher ups had given in . The foreman was prouder than John. John looked in his pay envelope that week and sure enough there it was ONE CENT an hour . Believe it or not that the way it was. Well I guess bread was only a couple of cents a loaf so there ya go. John was a friend of Dave Swindens father Dave is without a doubt the greatest living authority on Schrade in the world I know Dave well, he went from working after school at Schrade to vice president and was with them 50 years. Like I said John was a friend of Daves father . John used to tell me of how he would be over at the Swinden residence and would sit and listen to the radio with Dave on his lap ( it is a little wierd time wise because when he told me this story Dave was around 75 then. of course John was over 100 ) He would fall asleep and Daves mother would wake john up when he fell asleep listening to the radio and send him home.

John lived alone and he was quite active he took a fall and was not found for a couple of days . It was in the winter and he like a lot of folks still burned wood so it got pretty cold so even though he was still alive when someone came over looking for him, the cold had gotten to him and he died in the hospital of phenumonia. Otherewise chances are he might still be drinking bloody marys. I remember asking him once when he was well past 100 how he was feeling he looked at me dead serious and said that a couple of days before he had an ear ache ( not bad for 100 ) . They were a tough breed in those days and they did not die easily I hope there memory and history will be just as tenacous. LT

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LT LTD. Cutlery Collectables


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