Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

This forum is dedicated to the discussion and display of old knives. The rich history of all the many companies that made them through the early years will be found here as well as many fine examples of the cutlers art. Share pictures of your old knives and your knowledge here!
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

LT,

You stole it ::nod::

I don`t think that is too much, where and when are you going to find another one?

Like my brother always says, "It`s only too much if you don`t have the money"

I seen a broken, beat up one sell on feebay this year for around 5 grand :o
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Well they say fsint heart never filled a flush and the only knives I ever regretted were the ones I didn't buy when I had the chance the good part is that while I am sure he will or did get at least 8 grand for them . I sure didn't have that in them. Anyway thanks for making me feel better about going for it and your right you can always make more money but chances to get some of these relics are getting farther and farther apart. Here is one I bought and believe me it set me back when I bought it . It was many years ago and it was five figures then. Still I am glad I bought it when I had the chance. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by orvet »

Amazing LT! ::tu:: ::tu:: ::drool:: ::drool::

I love looking at your knives, but I like the history lessons even more!
Thanks for sharing the stories and knives with us.

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by philco »

LT,

I'm very pleased to know the temporary museum is now open and available to knife lovers for viewing. I want you and those who are in concert with you in this effort to know that there are folks like me out there who support and appreciate what you are doing for knife collectors everywhere by preserving this important history for all of us.
With that said, I also want you to know my membership application and check will be going out in today's mail as my small contribution to helping in this endeavor.
Best regards,

Phil
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Thankyou for the words and your backing come on over when you can. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

lt632ret wrote:the only knives I ever regretted were the ones I didn't buy when I had the chance
How TRUE!

I passed on plenty that I regret over the years :x


That Case Zipper is awesome :o :shock: ::drool::

Good thing you bought it, these are few and far between too, especially in that condition ::tu::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Personally I feel it is the best example in the world today. I had exactly 2 chances to buy one of these . The one you see belonged to a doctor down south as a kid before 1920 he bought two one he used all his life the other he put away. When he died his wife sold both to a well known dealer who had it awhile since his price was high enough to be considered a lot of money back then. I bought the used one first and was not happy with it so I took a loan and bought the pristene one. The other was in Green bone and was the one that used to appear in Jim Sargeants books. I had not found the one I have and it was up for sale . I like Jim and he is a great knife expert and gentleman . I have known him for years and he has in the past helped me out with information ect. I made the mistake of offering jim a low first price. it was only to see what his counter offer was. Not such a good idea he never made a counter offer and stopped talking to me. Frankly I was ready to pay his original price but never got the chance. So there ya go I have not sugar coated the story that how it went down and that is the way he felt. Interestingly enough I have a friend who lives in the mid west who I told this story to years later, he laughed and said that JIM did the same thing to him over the same knife. He also had known Jim for years. So the moral of the story is some people do not consider haggling part of the buying ritual in some cases not even a little bit. Jim is a knife legend and I think the world of him. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

LT,

Now all you need is one of those Schrade knife display machines, the one that pushes the button to open a switchblade.

Sorry for my lack of a better name for it :?

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Some things are not ment to be. In the fiftys Dave Swinden ( Dave worked for 50 years for Schrade he started as a high school kid part time he was hired to wash the windows of the plant he went off to the service came back and eventually rose to vice president of Schrade I am proud to say he is a friend of mine. ) he took those machines to consolidated iron in Newburgh to be junked he saved 3 machines. I have followed those machines all these years. One one went to an employee who lived in Walden it was sold to Rhett Stidam with all the knives for 2000 dollars. The deal took place at a meeting of the two men at the Holiday inn in Newburgh. The second went to another employee and is now in the hands of a well known collector from Pennsylvania. The employee put it on ebay the collector saw it and asked what he would take for it a deal was cut and the collector drove that night in a blinding snow storm to get it . The third was Daves. who when I was a kid lived just up the street in Ellenville where this machine was for years. the machine was also stored in the old Ulster Schrade plant I used to fish ( as a kid ) off a rock that looked up at the window of the room where it sat for years. At the end of Schrade it was being used as a display at the shot show ect. It was supposed to go to me when they got ready and it was still Daves property. When Smokey mountain bought the collection the machine was in the room with the collection and they scoffted it up and by the way were not suppose to but the bank had locked the door to the collection room and frankly Smokey had not played by the rules from the beginning I have written about that before so one more infraction should not surprise anyone. They in turn sold it to Jerry Skelton. Jerry offered it to me. However the price both he and Rhett are asking is not in the realm of reality. Still this is there perogative. This is the gist of the story of the machines. from beginning to end I have been within a few feet of one or more of them since I was 10 years old BUT some things are not to be and that is life. It has not been for lack of effort on my part. If I had gotten it ( the Schrade collection or the machine) it would have become a saved part of history now it is part of a story about history. I have learned over the years that nobody can get everything . Although I sure have tried and have my share. I stated in the beginning that my collection is or is among the best in the world however it is not as good as the original Schrade collection was, I know, because I was the antiquarian for Schrade for a while at the end. ( however that collection is gone ) I begrudge no one anything, we all have our agenda some place money above all else. Who knows perhapes some day I will be forced by need to sell my collections it would have to be a necessity but you never know people need operations and things happen. However for right now I can afford to do whatever I want, drink whatever I want , and tell anyone in the world to go to hell if I so choose. I feel that is about as good as it gets, and the cherry on the cake is that for right now this history is safe and saved. That has been and is my agenda. In conclusion let me say does not having that machine that I have lusted for for over a half a century tick me off? I would be a liar if I did not say, You dang betcha . Then again there are a lot of things in this life that are not ment to be and that irk us all . Apparently this is one of them. So in answer to your question" why yes I am familiar with the machine you mention." LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

I know exactly what you are talking about. I have been trying to buy a large old display knife for over 10 years. The guy that has it found it in an old barn he cleaned out, he got it for free. It is hanging between the floor joists in his basement on two large nails. I have tried repeatedly to buy it from him, no sale. He is not even a knife collector. Why does he keep it? Who knows, every 4 or 5 years he shows it to me hanging right where it has always been. Maybe because I want it so bad he won`t let it go.

If I had no interest in it he would probably sell it in a minute. Some people really aggravate me :lol:
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Hello just got in. What kind of a display is it a sign or actual knife. I have some stuff around is it a pocket display type one of the large bowie types a sign or what? LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

It looks something like this one pictured below.

Except it is about 3 1/2-4 feet long. It is a table knife.

I believe it hung in a store window as an advertising gimmick to draw people in. Much like the pocket knives made by N.Y Knife Co., in fact this one could have been made by them also. Have you ever seen one this large before?
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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That is a dandy ask him if he wants to sell ( stay calm just kidding ). No I do not have one like that I have not seen that pattern ( handle ) by NYK almost any of them might have done it but it sure is nice. I am posting some pics of the NYK knives of that era ( around civil war ) until the 20tys . Also there main display knife for hardware stores was 2 blade hanging giant slipjoint . There are a few other wall type that i shot quickly just walking around the house a couple of the large hanging bowies. Just sort of a sampler for anyone wanting to see this stuff in person. By the way thankyou for responding it helps moving the thread I seem to be getting readers but not much response or writers or questions in the thread. it must be my winning personality oh well, thanks again. LT PS did you see what went on ebay yesterday a gutta percha Korn. I wonder if our conversation shook it out. One of the guys here at AAPK was good enough to write and tell me about it.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Here are some more pics.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

Rich,

Just to clarify, the knife pictured in my last post is not the actual knife I was talking about. I used it as an example of what the large display knife basically looks like. It`s been a few years since I have seen it so my memory is not clear on the exact handle design.

The knife pictured in my last post is from James Ward & Co. maybe you heard of them. They are know to be from Bronxville N.Y., but this knife is marked Riverside, Mass. Very scarce.

You have quite a collection of N.Y.K. table cutlery there ::tu:: I have a bone handle table knife in my collection. It is posted in the N.Y.K. thread here in knife lore.

Before the year is out I am going to pay him a visit and atleast get some pictures of it, if not persuade him to sell it.

No, I did not see the Korn listed, I will try and find it. Maybe we did shake it out with this thread ::shrug::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by RobesonsRme.com »

I thought I had read mention of an Ebay Korn when I first read through this thread, so when I saw it on Ebay, I didn't bring it to anyone's attention.

The knife has not sold, as yet. Bid in the mid $500.00 range.

Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT


LT, you have accumulated a fabulous collection and a wealth of historical data. I wish you the best with the museum.

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

Thanks for the link ::tu::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by knife-nut »

Did you see how much that Korn knife closed for? $4,406.91 :shock: WOW!!
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Actually I was working on a new storage shed and stopped to come in and watch the end of the auction. I was wondering if anyone was going to mention it on this thread. I have been watching this all week as I had mentioned earlier. $4406 for a piece which is being sold as broken will not stay shut will not fire with a nicked rusted undoubtibly pitted blade. Now for anyone who has not ever actually handled one of these it should be noted that the actions on these (mid 1880tys ) is of a floating bolster type the bolster on one side is always loose kind of sitting on a spring the blade is released when the bolster is pressed pushing a lever ( actually a little piece sticking up under the bolster down. ). It is a flakey ( er uncertain ) action at best. it constantly needs minor adjustments. This one is certainly not in mint or even operable condition. I took mine out and went over it carefully and then looked up the patent and checked the patent diagram ( By the way a copy of this diagram can be found in Mark Ericksons book American switchblades ) I also checked over some other patent material I had access to. I contacted the seller after spending considerable time looking at the pictures. I asked for a pic showing the inside of the handle to see the condition of the spring which ( among other things I thought or think might be broken or missing ) According to the seller it was or may be short ( broken on the bolster side. This of course would explain alot. Regarding the knife not staying open or closed. This is not a slip in spring and is an integrel part of the knife so it should prove interesting to repair or replace. The KORN is considered the first US switchblade patent . There is controversy as to whether these were actually made in Germany at least some of them. I am not going into that however there have been some reasons to believe this, also there are some other patents which challenge it being the first which is mainly due to definition of what you called an automatic. I do not want to be embroiled in this either. Suffice it to say that the KORN is certainly a valid important part of this history. Now regarding this piece the handles which are Gutta Percha ( which is kind of a tree sap early rubber type material ) are beautiful these are often as in this case molded to show a picture or scene. As to materials these were made in stag, Gutta percha , and pearl. While stag and pearl can be replaced especially pearl. The original stag is usually identifiable by reference to original examples . Pearl is the easiest to replace since original pearl is the toughest to discern usually minute chips and some aging are the only clues. Gutta percha is to all intents an obsolete material and therefore usually original. This piece is restorable and it will not be until it is carefully checked as to whether it will be a relatively major or minor restoration or if the buyer actually wants to restore the piece at all. I kept looking at the piece all week and thinking about whether or not I wanted to take a shot at it. A couple of times I almost took a flyer on it as it turns out all I would have been doing was confusing the issue since frankly I was in the 3000 dollar range. I am not surprised on the final price of this piece. While like everything else a lot of items have taken a price plunge as in most collector fields the really rare high end stuff maintains its value.

Earlier in this thread I posted a picture of an old english Lingard Peacroft pearl penrelease folding dirk. This knife carries a date of 1850 on the blade. I bring this up because I bought it on ebay but it is an example of what this relatively new type of buying procedure has done to the commerce of these types of items. I had searched for one of these for some time (decades). The last one I almost bought went for 13,500 dollars. I was actually in contact with a very well known dealer on the west coast he owns the stag one of these with crossguard that appears in Levine 4 the price was considerably more than 13,500. when this one appeared. It was a mess the seller wrote that he could not get it to open unless he pried it open. When I read that I took a gulp and wrote him ( JUST PRESS THE PEN BLADE ). He wrote back thankyou yes that released the blade and it would throw correctly. The knife was a mess the top bolster was spread every thing loose it kind of had to be held together to make it work . The pearl a bit chipped ( but not unreasonably) . Coping pen blade broken a third of the way. In general it looked like parts. However this story is why I cannot impress the importance of knowing your history, patents and the study of your subject. As I gazed at this Lingard I dimly remembered a small fact. This Lingard was made in 1850 however back then the materials they used in the bolsters were quite soft. People then were like people now human nature does not change as a result when someone had an automatic knife they played with them as a result the soft materials in the bolsters would wear the knife would loosen and spread. This was so prevelent that in 1870 ( approx I would have to look up the exact date ) someone pattened a device ( kind of a rivit sheath which was used in knife bolsters which acted to keep the soft pewter silver and similar bolster materials from wearing). Since 1850 is before 1870 ( see even I knew that ) I thought that perhapes this might be the only problem with this piece. Usually when this waring took place the knife was just put away for a few generations until an attic or similar was cleaned out. In fact that is just where this one was found the seller was cleaning out an estate. He had no idea what it was. So there I sat staring at this broken 160 year old handful of parts and wondering if I should go with my instinct . I was surprised that it did not go higher or that there were not more bidders but there were a few. If I remember correctly the final price was under 3,000 which if I had judged incorrectly is alot to pay for a broken knife. When the piece arrived I took it to a jeweler friend of mine frankly I didn't even inspect it to closely just a cursory check since I figgured win lose or draw it was to late to worry about it.

Now once upon a time there might have been five men in the country who did this kind of work you would send them a piece and wait 5 years and they could fix anything they could weld blades make parts anything they charged an arm and a leg were all prima donnas who would not be rushed and would tolerate nothing from any body they were artists. Then along came a $30,000 machine called the laser welder and anyone who could do watch repair or similar and could use that machine could work magic with broken knives.

That being said I gave the Lingard and the correct (coping ) blade ( you collect a lot of old unique parts over 60 years ) all in an envelope ,of parts) . I then explained what I felt was wrong with the knife and left. About 2 weeks later I could contain myself no longer so I gave him a call to see how the knife was coming along. His answer was nonchalant you were right all that it needed was beefing up the interior of the bolsters and sleeving it when I put it back together it works like it is new. The reason I have related this story is because if you know your subject and get lucky sometimes ebay can produce an opportunity which was never available in the past. I have told this story before so if you have heard it my apology. I could not resist telling it since I can almost see that new owner of that KORN opening up that priority package and wondering if he just spent 4400 dollars on a handful of useless parts or a historic treasure. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

Rich,

Great story, I enjoyed reading it :D
lt632ret wrote:Now once upon a time there might have been five men in the country who did this kind of work you would send them a piece and wait 5 years and they could fix anything they could weld blades make parts anything they charged an arm and a leg were all prima donnas who would not be rushed and would tolerate nothing from any body they were artists. Then along came a $30,000 machine called the laser welder and anyone who could do watch repair or similar and could use that machine could work magic with broken knives.
How true, and there are several people doing just that, working their "majic" and selling them on fleabay ::disgust::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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Very true one of the most prevelant misuses of selling restored as original are the electro plate names of the models such as the press button victor, or business ect models which have been appearing with more and more regularity . Finding an original old knife with the electro etch can significantly increase the value of a collector piece. Finding one with the etch used to be a really rare event. The electro etch is the first thing to go especially if the knife is or has been used at all. Therefore it used to be that if a knife was in really great shape and had the etch it was original. Now with the ease that an electro pattern can be purchased to specs, and applied by anyone with a inexpensive machine exactly the opposite is true seeing a knife with an etch is almost a red flag ( unless you know the seller or the history (provanance) of the piece ) to stay away if you do not want a restored piece. I almost feel about etched pieces as I do about D guard civil war knives they are just to easy and afford such large returns that it just not worth the chance. Restoration pieces are in the eye of the beholder I have my own opinions . If something is known to be original that is how it should be marketed, If work has been done on it that should be made known. I have no problem with a piece of history being returned to restored original however that fact should when possible be known to the buyer. That is just my opinion. I very seldom ever sell anything anymore ( who knows perhapes some day that will change ) however when I do sell a piece I always make it a point to explain everything I know about a piece. Frankly a lot of buyers out there often do not recognize a doctored piece and some are quite offended and go into violent denial when they are advised that they spent a lot of money for something that is not original. As I said before for better or worse it is all part of the new rules regarding this field of endeaver. I guess knives are not the only artifacts that fall into this quandry I recently read of a number of new bibical artifact finds that have all been proven to be out right fakes. At least a restored knife lets you see an item from the past as it looked and saves it for the future. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

lt632ret wrote:If something is known to be original that is how it should be marketed, If work has been done on it that should be made known.
In a perfect world, yes. In this world never or very rarely will it ever happen. See, you have to figure in the GREED factor. People can and will do anything for MONEY, so why not doctor up an old knife, buff it real good and put it on fleabay and let the sharks have at it.
lt632ret wrote:Frankly a lot of buyers out there often do not recognize a doctored piece and some are quite offended and go into violent denial when they are advised that they spent a lot of money for something that is not original.
Did this one time, Never again. The buyer thought I was crazy and did not know what I was talking about. His response was " I have bought many knives from this seller, he would not do that" :roll: Sure he wouldn`t :lol:
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

What can I say you are correct. Right and wrong no longer seem to matter. The motto seems to be if you can get away with something it is OK to do. Idiot insurance claims. Financial lies, deals on the job kickbacks ect . Have a car accident instant whiplash. It is almost considered a windfall , fraudulent disability, welfare abuse , but most of all politics. Again right and wrong have nothing to do with how things are done. When I wrote the bill to establish a procedure to legally display and to clarify the automatic knife laws in NYS it took 8 years to have it passed into law. The cost to the people must have been amazing just the procedural cost . However the year that best exemplfys the way the system functions was I believe year 7 the bill sailed through the senate. Then it went to committee everyone complimented me on the idea of establishing a museum to save a viable and I feel somewhat important part of american history. ( especially since now these products are being made in CHINA) I was lauded what a guy I was, not only that, but I have tens of thousands of dollars of artifacts which would (barring the unforseen ) someday be donated to posterity, all these legislators thought it and I, were great. The bill went to committee in the assembly I spoke to them they all thought that I, and the idea of what I was doing was the greatest thing since white bread. Then they would say sorry but the bill will not come out of committee this year. I was amazed WHY what the hell was I missing. Well here it is the majority of the assembly people were from downstate near NYC . In order to pass the bill through the senate one part of it had been changed, it seems, so that a knife museum with automatics could not be started in NYC ( due to NYC own idiot laws regarding knives ) they amended my bill to say that no area with 250,000 people could have such a museum. This didn't matter upstate in this area since we don't have 250,000 critters let alone people so since the museum was to be upstate it posed no problem. Except that the Assembly people on its committee were mainly from the NYC area. So while they all felt that it was a great bill, a great idea, and I was a great guy. They would not vote to take it out of committee until another bill came up in the future which would benefit them and did not affect upstate. You see they could not vote or pass on it no matter how correct, right , or good an idea it might be until they got something out of the deal for them as a trade. So there you have it the innermost functions of the most dysfunctional government in the country the NYS legislature. Luckily it was passed the following year and it snuck through with out anymore problems now why would I say that, (snuck) it was one of the few bills signed by Eliot Spitzer ( remember love client number 9 ) before he was forced to resign. Actually I was half waiting for them to recind any laws he may have signed , However they didn't and it is the law. Can you imagine the scope of this confusion, deceit, greed, and stupidity when you multipy this one small bill with what goes on at the federal level. ( you have to talk to some of these legislators to really understand how little they really know about anything that comes before them or how little they care. ). There aides and law people are really the only ones who make any decisions or who you actually deal with. How many times do you see a legislator die and his wife runs for the office ( just so that things will procede as usual. it show how much they actually do ) You could put a stief 1903 teddy bear in the postition and it will still continue to run business as usual. Strangly enough all the legislators make salarys but are millionaires. Yes as I said you are correct.

When I used to sell or trade knives at shows or on ebay or even now my policy which (was in the ad ) would state if you are not happy with this knife or this transaction for any reason your fault my fault whatever ( I do not need to know your reason for disatisfation unless it is important to you for me to know ) please just send it back in the condition you received it for a full refund . Please accept my apology for any inconvience . If you ain't happy then neither am I and my reputation and name are worth more to me than any knife ever made.
Luckily I never had to make my living doing this so I guess that is why my policy could be so liberal. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

Yeah, I can just imagine the RED TAPE involved in doing anything when it comes to the local or federal government. We had a similar experience here in N.H., luckily for us knife collectors we can now own ANY knife made Automatic, Dirk, etc. Common sense has prevailed and the law was passed rather quickly.

Is it legal for you as a collector to own a switchblade in N.Y. state or does the law just cover a museum??
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

In New York state the law states that switchblades are illegal. However as with most laws there are exceptions. One of those exceptions states that anyone with a valid NYS hunting fishing or trapping license may posess an automatic ( switchblade ect ) gravity ect knife . This can be carried when the person is hunting fishing or trapping. It is a stupid type loophole law however it does do something logical and correct it allows ownership and frankly the part about carrying is another example of the nebulus nature of these original laws. If you have a tackle box in the car if you have a fishing rod in the car. In fact if you are carrying a gun then you are automaticly legal since you may have been on your way hunting. If asked by an authority why you have an automatic knife on you were you going fishing or hunting a simple yes is all that is needed ( along with a license ) if asked when, all that you really have to say is before my licence runs out. In fact when explaining these stupid laws to an assemblyman in Albany he said to me I do not know why we are here it is illegal that is that. I then pulled out a copy of the actual law and pointed out the exceptions . I then did not make any points when I stated that I had been a NYS peace officer for 26 years and as such had always felt that as such it behooved me to understand the laws I was enforcing . I then said that I had always been under the impression that this rule should extend to the legislators who passed these laws but apparently I had been mistaken. He did not appreciate my sarcasm. However a memo did go out to all the justices of the peace in NYS to advise there officers before confiscating automatic knives to first check to see if the person had a hunting fishing or trapping license.

Please be aware that NYC has its own laws regarding guns pocket knives. These insane morons under the crime fighting manhatten DA in his quest to make a name and move on the bigger and better things ( wealthy old political family ). Has begun a campaign to straighten out all the violence problems in NYC by confiscating as illegal virtually all pocket knives sold in NYC you know camping knives any pocket knives in fact in one raid on home depot regular slipjoints were deemed a menace to society if ( NOW GET THIS ) if by grasping the blade by the notch and whipping your arm it could be partially opened. They have no idea of reality and apparently cannot read a legal description . I can only assume that after wiping out the pocket knife menace in New York City he will be moving on to make other common simple tools illegal. Then he can move on the anything that can be used as a weapon which I guess will include rocks. THEY ARE NUTS.

I have discussed the NH law with several people including Evan Nappen ( a good man ) . I was so impressed with it that if I was younger and not so invested in what I am doing I would consider moving there. However here is what you must remember. All of these Knife laws are constitutionally illegal. If this was ever taken to the supreme court it would be shown to be a blatant obvious violation of the second amendment. These are leftover bullshit laws enacted for stupid reasons like juvenile delinquent movies ( can you imagine with todays gangs worrying about a pocket knife today gangs have arsenals and drive by shooting) ) or politicians who wanted to make a name for themselves. Macarthy had commys Kevfhauer had switchblades. What happened in NH and Oregon was that someone took the issue to court. When that happens it goes up the judicial ladder however once the subject gets to a top state level the state capitulates and agrees to legalize in that state. This happens because if it continues to a federal level all of these laws would be thrown out. You can get a gun permit and carry a glock to church but a 3 inch 100 year old Schrade double with a spring akin to bobby pin can get you a couple of years in Rahway in NJ. Come on you cannot pray in school due to constitutional rights you can carry a pistol due to constitutions rights. But a hundred year old artifact well now that is illegal. How do you deny the right to carry a simple tool. Even with todays supreme court justices they would all be expunged.

The law i wrote does allow for others who are members of a historical museum to carry and own automatics ( under certain circumstances ) for displays shows. educational purposes and others so it is a start. One interesting point regarding my law was that as a civilian ( you know a simple taxpayer ). I did not have the right to inquire to the Attorney general regarding what the laws were pertaining to the display of these items. Oh I could inquire however there policy and they are not mandated to answer such inquirys, as such since there was no such procedure for these items it ment that if you did so you were at the mercy of what ever the whim of interpretation of any enforcment agency felt was there policy on any given day. The only way I got an answer from the attorney general acknowledging that there was no legal display procedure in place was by sending my inquiry under the auspices of the municipality in which the museum was to be. While still not mandated by law to answer, there procedure is that for a municipality of agency inquiry they will respond. Getting the answer allowed me to press forward with the bill.

As you can see our small museum and the idea it enbolds to save this American history has been a long fight and frankly I wonder if it is worth the effort. I think of the American sweat and blood the American ideals and familys that came to this country the part these people played in our nation from the american steel forged into the tools that helped keep us free . I am an old emotional man I have known 5 generations of these familys I have known the sons and daughters who have gone on to contribute in other fields doctors teachers soldiers these were the true products of this industry ( the familys. ) In my minds eye I see a young man away from home fighting for MY no OUR freedom in a far away place with nothing between himself and eternity but a blood red piece of strong american steel in his hand be it civil, spanish, WWI WWII Korea Viet Nam or any of the other conflicts Then and now. The strength of that steel and the resolve of those people I feel should not be forgotten. Frankly as time goes on and we proceed I wonder if I will ever see the task completed I cannot begin to tell of the other aspects of this project which had had to be over come and frankly it is extremely frustrating to see the lack of concern and interest of even those who were an immediate part of this history . I also realize that this is just one cause in a long list and it is not the top priority in things that need change however as i said i am an old guy and I tend to ramble so thanks for bearing with me. LT
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