Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

[Miller Bro's]

Excellent story LT, those old guys were as tough as nails.

I now pause for a brief intermission and some pretty pictures. Note the guys standing in the frame work of the bridge. Postmarked Oct. 4 1907, John may have worked there when this picture was taken?

[lt632ret]

Nice post cards thankyou for posting them. Needless to say I have a lot of related pics each with its own story. However one good posting deserves another so here are some pics and some history. Prior to 1903 New York Knife did not have a Factory photo Col Bradley used a litho graph. It is pretty rare and I only know of it being printed in one particular publication. I wonder if anyone out there knows what that was ? Lets wee if anyone can answer that question anyway in 1903 The Fuller bros bought NYK ( Mckinley had switched his running platform from in favor of tariffs to against them and the Astute Col wisely decided to sell of course Mckinley was his buddy from the civil war but that is another story ). When the Fuller bros ( who had been the owners of Electric knife out of Newark ( they used to get there knives made on contract by NYK under there tang ). bought the company they wanted a new fangled photo graph. Now in them days photography was not as easy as today. They wanted a giant photo 3 feet or larger wide. There were only a few cameras in the country that could take this kind and size of picture ( called a coffin camera since it was a giant box on a tripod using a glass type negative ). One of these was in NYC. So they got hold of the photographer and he came to Walden set up his camera and took a picture . Now over the years this picture has appeared in some old magazines and people would also take photos of the photo not because of content but rather because of the size since pics this large were almost unheard of. The photo when done was sent to NYK where apparently it was given to someone in the factory to frame and it was then placed in the office of the company where it hung for years. In now hangs in my house and is one of our exhibits. The reason I know about the framing is because if you look at the pic you can see brown lines and a brown circle coming through to the front of the picture if you turn it over you can see the rough cut crate wood used as backing the lines between the slats and the brown circle is a knot hole. Also the backing is partially held on by vintage logo (arm hammer ) tape which was used to hold the slats in just as we do now with packing tape. I bought the picture at an auction some years ago. A pair of old eccentric bros had kept it for years and it came up at there estate. Actually I was surprised because there really was not alot of interest in it when it came up, except for me I was ready to take out a second mortgage however it was not necessary. I have attached a pic of this photo ( Note the pipe running down the building to the water near the falls side. That pipe was the then sewage system for liquid human waste for the workers.) I have also included a picture of the litho graph originally used by the company as its factory pic prior to the photo. ( I used to sell copies of them on ebay ). I also am including a split picture of the factory after it closed and was abandoned Notice the broken windows ect. This pic I believe from the late fortys . Thjere is a lot more I could explain about the factorys history it was eventually used as a firemans site for a practice fire exercise and burnt. It seems people would break in and vandalise as well as probably drink beer and whatever else. Can you imagine NYK and all its treasures and being able to wander through the abandoned factory looking. especially since when they went bankrupt they just closed the doors and walked away leaving it mainly intact. It had to be torn down since it was dangerous plus the water broke through the corner of the building by the falles and it would flood making it even more dangerous . I have pics of the actual damage being done by the high water knocking out the bricks taken as it was happening if any one would like me to dig them out they are also on display. This later pic is also quite large however it is in two pictures I am including that with this posting as well. If you look close you can still see the pipe I mentioned before, it is still running off the building into the Wallkil river ( remember the sewage system.) Down river the Wallkill river runs right past my house it is one of the best smallmouth rivers around I guess that is partly due from what the used let run into the river. I fished right there and caught those fish all my life. There really is a lot more to these tales and I urge any one with an interest to please contact me for a tour my only agenda is to not lose this history and to make people aware of this great heritage, during a time when people took pride in the products they made the country they lived in and the lives they lead. LT PS in an effort to enlarge the 1903 photo I cut off a display of knives below the pic which I should have left for a size reference still you should be able to get an idea. There is 150 years of history here so I am sorry this is not more complete but it is just to much for a posting. LT

[philco]

Lt,

Just so you know, there are several of us out here following every word of this thread. If you check the number of views this thread has received since it began, it is above 400 now, so someone is watching and reading. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with those of us who love knives and knife history.

Phil

[wazu013]

After looking at the beautiful collection of autos made in America from a time when they were able to be made I took all my knives and put them in my tool box. Thank you for posting them. I live in Florida but I grew up in Buffalo, N.Y. The next time I get near there I will make your museum part of my trip.
Wazu013

[Miller Bro's]

That was quite a factory in it`s day! Too bad it is gone. Good thing you saved that large picture of the factory, the only one in the world. That is amazing to see

Also you pointed out the sewer pipe running down the side of the factory, who would have known? This is the kind of history I like and the little details that are usually lost over time.

Here is another real picture postcard, this one is undated. I think it is an earlier version of the one I first posted. The first photo, you could almost walk across the river it was so low. This card the water is much higher, also note there are about 37 school children lined up along the railing at the top. Over to the left are two adults. Another detail is there are not any trees on the right side and there is a white wooden building way in the back in this photo.

Dimitri

[lt632ret]

Wazu looking forward to your visit. I do see that we are getting some readers. Regarding the NYK factory interestingly it was the first factory to make Ripleys because you entered from the top floor years later after NYK closed a factory in Newburgh NY ( just down the road around 13 miles ) also made Ripleys for the same reason Regal Bag was the factory . NYK was the largest knife factory in the world at one time. Amazing how I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast ( or if I even had breakfast ) however almost anything regarding knives sticks in my mind . It must either be some kind of early alzheimer syndrome I had heard that in some cases the afflicted, remembers long terms facts from years ago while forgetting the short term. Until it progresses to forgetting everything which in my case with some of the happenings of my personal life may be welcome. Otherwise perhapes it is some kind of idiot Savant thing you know where a person is severely mentally infirmed and handicapped but does one thing beyond human believe like playing on a piano every song in the world by only hearing it once or an unbelievable mathematics acumen like rainman. I actually maintain that my memory of a plethera of useless knife trivia and dimishing IQ, is do to 50 years of heavily imbibing giant volumes of Crown Royal. LT PS If you look at the pics of the factory you can understand why it was necessary to enter from the top which is actually the only part of the building at street level.

[Owd Wullie]

GREAT STUFF!!!!

Keep it coming!!

I have nothing add other than I am enjoying this thread immensely.

Thanks for sharing and PLEASE continue.
Willie

[W5RWU]

LT , I see you have been really busy. Outstanding , all your hard work has really came together. The temporary home of the museum is mind blowing. Thank you for keeping the history alive . This is fuel for my obsession. If you need anything just say the word.
Randy

[orvet]

Awesome history LT!
Please keep it coming!

There are few of us who can add much to this thread, but we are avid readers.
There are only a handful of people left who know this history, and you are the only one I know of who is telling the story.
Keep telling the story and we will keep listening.

Thanks for sharing this history.

Dale

[Ramrod]

LT,
We are here, quietly watching and learning...
I hope to bring my two sons and lovely wife for a tour next summer...
Thank you
Mark

[lt632ret]

hello Mark, dale, Randy , and anyone out there. This being halloween and since some of you are good enough to read this stuff I thought perhapes a little trick and treat is in order. First the joke( trick) that I believe was insturmental in my being estranged from my family since I told it every year at holloween and I am sure as bad as it is it was part of my plight ready OK WHAT DO YOU CALL A HOT DOG WITH NO MEAT IN IT ? ANSWER A HOLLOW WEENIE . Its bad but it gets really bad after 40 years of hearing it. That was your trick. Now the treat. As you may recall I have harped on the demise of the Schrade collection and how it happened . it was bought by Blue Ridge and Smokey Mountain and instead of being saved for historical display was immediately gutted and sold all over the world more or less effectively destroying this american history. OH wait not quite there is one mad man who had put together a similar collection( only not nearly so grand ). and contrary to these people and there chinese friends plans there is a possibility this history may yet be saved .

However today I want to bring up the Schrade collection itself I have spoken of it but it is long gone. So what was this mystical collection in fact did it ever exist? Given some time I am sure history will be twisted to try to show that the Chinese always were the producers of Schrades. The Schrade collection was kept in two main places the executive meeting room which might have been 100 feet long had showcases mounted on the walls these filled two entire walls ( the other wall windows ) the last having the entrance and a small utility room . This segment of the collection consisted of examples of just about all of the knives which Schrade had made under most of its tang markings. It was not complete but it was close in fact I had sold some of my collection to Schrade for pieces they did not have. Now when Schrade acquired imperial it came with its collection and these also were dispalyed on the walls. some of those early prototypes Italian knives were breathtaking to a knife nut such as myself Also included in this area were giant display knives and some really neat odditys. Next to the presidents office was another large room this room was filled with more examples of every set and special issue they made. Imagine being a kid and walking into a room with every type of candy ever made it was amazing. Upon the new bank (which had affialiations and foreign backers ) taking over the old bank which Schrade had always used and never had a problem with they fore closed. They immediately padlocked the back collection room. ( Where the machine was that I wrote about earlier ( in this thread ). was kept. From that point on access to that area was not allowed. Now when Smokey agreed to keep the collection in tact I said that i would not stand in the way of them buying it since I had already made the financial plans necessary to at least bid against them. My only stipulation was that I might have to sell 10 or 15 percent of the easily replacable stuff initially due to the initial cost. Smokey stated that they would keep it in tact and so I at word stepped out. The fact is the method was called a stocking horse bid a term I never heard of but if I had bid and the price had been set by the bank and court as it was they would have had to sell some of it to me to break it up but since I did not bid they got it all at pennies on the dollar . If the bank had wanted full value they would have auctioned the knives as was originally planned . The banks reason was that it would take to long to auction does that makes sense to give up millions instead of keeping the auction company another day or two??? But you see they wanted there friends to get it who were friends of the the internationals who bought the bank this is all kind of confusing I agree however after a year of people like myself bitching about what had gone on, this was only one of several other clever moves ( Schrade was not the only chip in the game ( that fell ) congressional hearings were held regarding chinese business practices . Our senator Charles Schumer went to China to investigate he had a nice vacation I assume ate some chinese food and no one wever heard what happened . Chuck is an example of another of our upstanding efficient NY politicos. By the way Schrade owed about 11 or 12 million but had that much on order and was into process of making and delivering the product as they had done over the last 100 years they had borrowed against there sales and in the past had gotten extensions as a common procedure when payment to them backed up they had started dealing with Walmart who would send payment on there own schedule this allowed the new bank to fore close now if they had there money coming and as a regular procedure had extended in the past why would they foreclose and get pennies on the dollar instead of full payment with interest. Because it all went to there assiociates so really they just acquired the manufacturing and lost nothing. Even the lots like number 3 WIP were deliberly made so lage that only a firm with giant storage could buy it WIP work in progress sold for 35,000 dollars it was 28 trailer truck loads of knives and parts.

You know I did not want to rehash this but what the hell. In any event when this all took place and as the trucks were rolling to NY I started taking pics of some of the displays on the walls, the pics are terrible I was being rushed out of the building only a friend of mine downstairs bought me 15 minutes by holding up security so that I could at least have some record that this had existed. So these picture are terrible and some redundant I have a stack of these shots unfortunately due to time and the situation they are not great rhey will however give you an Idea of some of what was there. I scanned 10 multiple pics which is all I can post at one posting . Upon writing this I thought that perhapes you might also like to know the knives which were originally listed for auction I have that list however what I also have is a private list which was sent to several plant officials which shows not only the knives but there then estimated value . Shush don't tell but as soon as I post this I will start scanning that list. Perhapes some ninjas will attack me in the night I sure hope so. By the way even these estimates are low. So here is your treat a partial few pics of the Schrade Collection still on the wall.

[Owd Wullie]

WOW!

[lt632ret]

Knife list of the Schrade collection . originally to be sold at auction

[lt632ret]

more from the collection I think I missed a page.

[lt632ret]

Last couple I did miss one but this should give you an idea. What a collection it was OH well it may be gone but not forgotten and for those with an interest alot is right here on display in fact in some case some of the items are more inclusive and complete in the museum right now. I believe I found the page I missed it is the last sheet. For those who want a wish list here it is. Happy Halloween. LT

[W5RWU]

Keep it coming LT ,
Happy Halloween Randy

[Chase]

LT,

Phenominal is all I can say!

I knew a big part of the demise of Schrade and I was also aware of what SMK Works did with the Schrade Collection, however, this has really been informative! I am extremely pleased with what you are doing with the Warwarsing Museum and I can't wait to get back up to New York and pay a visit. Thanks for all that you have done, are doing and will continue to do!

Respectfully,

Tom

[knife-nut]

LT, this is one of the most interesting threads I've seen. I wish I could come and see the museum, but I don't think I'll be able to afford a trip there. I wish there was a way to take a virtual tour with our computer somehow. But PLEASE keep up your stories. Thanks, knife-nut.

[PA Knives]

Mr. Langston you are my hero. I am in awe of what you have collected and the reasons for doing so. You have personally shown me great kindness (I will never forget where that Union Display came from) and I plan on making a tour of your facility in the near future. As a lover of vintage cutlery and the history associated with it, I raise my glass of Scotch to you (12 year old single malt please) and toast you with the utmost praise and admiration.

Thank You Sir for what you have done

David L. Anthony

[lt632ret]

Thankyou Dave I am looking forward to your visit. LT PS if you recall when I parted with the razor display case I mentioned that these old items were rare and that I would have a job trying to fill its place in the collection . A year or two ago one of my affialiates in the historical society mentioned in passing that a friend of theres had seen a Schrade knife display case in an antique store while on a trip through the rural part of New Jersey near the Penn border. Now Schrade cases span 100 years and most are of the post 1970 era. Needless to say I have quite a few variations of these in fact I have representation right from the beginning ( early 1900's ) all the way through, it makes an interesting display to study and see how these display cases have changed through the years. when you come over I will show you a chronological group all filled with period pieces some still new unused original old stock. However the early ones with etched real glass and beautiful wood pre 1940 back to the 20tys teens and before are treasures and quite rare in a better economy I have seen the empty cases fetch over 2000 dollars. So needless to say when I heard of one sitting around only a hundred or two miles away . I contacted the store ( luckily my associate had the foresite to have gotten the tel number.) A verbal inquiry and description confirmed it was a 1920tys or thirtys version of achrade cut co.

So after taking out a second mortgage ( no just kidding ). In any event I proceeded to western New Jersey I went in and bought the Schrade case ( the owner moved not one cent from his original price ) he knew he had me once I had traveled all that way ) . Now with all that being said the reason I started this long winded diatribe . As I was leaving the store he said to me do you have any interest in razors I have some and I believe an old display case. GULP I casually said sure lets have a look. There was a 1922 Genco sheet steel display case with full markings . The funny thing is I already had a collection of Gencos and the original boxes the razors came in. This unit came with two boxes 6 each total 12 razors . So I am attaching a pic of the Schrade case now filled with antique automatics and the genco display with two original boxes inside 12 razors and the original Williams Hardware CO Clarksburg W Va 1922 catalogue advertisment. This is the display which I now have in lieu of the one you got. Not as rare but still knid of nice.

[tongueriver]

Well! I really don't know what to say; I just discovered this thread. Your contributions to the legacy of American cutlery is absolutely unparalleled, LT! Thank you so much! I come over here from time to time, but the posts come slowly so I don't come over from you-know-where very often. I hope you don't mind, but I am going to cut and paste every word you have ever posted on this website to a Word document that I can refer to from time to time. On my 60th birthday a few years ago my son sent me a one-handed Buck Alpha knife in a leather sheath that had some mushy stuff engraved on the blade. I was moved to tears and enthralled with the knife; I had never seen anything like that before. I had always had knives around as tools to fix stuff and butcher and so on. I had heard of ebay and somehow ended up there. However, I started looking at traditional knives that I had known over the years, mostly Schrades, and BAM! I added knives to tobacco, XXX, and whiskey. If people who know me know what I have in the basement they would deem it a problem. Well, my Schrades have been kinder to me than some of my friends have. haha. I got started too late to get very much of the really nice stuff, but I have some that really please me and I don't think that intervention or rehab is going to get ahold of me at this point. I and lots of other people hang on your every word, LT (why isn't Dave Swinden contributing?); don't you worry about the lack of audience. And when we are gone I am hoping this knowledge will endure somewhere. I have been trying to rationalize a trip to the NE US for some years (we are in WY), and along with friends in NH, the factories in Ellenville and in PA, and some geanealogical sites I want to see, I am now pretty much committed to getting out there, as your project is obviously the frosting on the cake. Thank you again! PS: Is your book on autos for sale by KnifeWorld? or where?

[lt632ret]

Thankyou for your sentiments I appreciate knowing that others are involved with this study and find it worth remembering. Dave Swinden is really still quite active in the knife industry with Canal street. He also enjoys his family and what personal time he has. Then he also has to make time to keep me from pestering him with questions. He is amazing to watch I remember a knife issue which canal was making which involved some procedures that usually mean that the company goes out and buys a machine for thousands of dollars that performs the desired function. I saw Dave in a corner with a drill press attaching some kind of hand made wooden gizmo ( I am not a mechanical person ) which he had made. I asked him what it was for and he said that this was how they used to perform this function to knives before someone invented and patented a specific machine to do it. He had made the wooden gizmo from memory. Once upon a time there was an era when problems were approached with the mentality that you thought out what the problem was and then fixed or corrected it. Now the mentality is if something is broken you simply throw it away and buy a new one, nothing gets fixed it gets replaced. mechanics today attach a computer to a car to see what is wrong when a light comes on signifying something is wrong . Then it tells you what new parts to put in. That is called a repair . Now if that light is on no one even cares if the car seems to be running perfect it still will not pass inspection if that light is on. It is the same mentality you see when a kid checks you out at the supermarket and cannot give you the correct change of a dollar unless the cash register tells the amount of change. Then if the machine makes a mistake he will fight you to the death that you are wrong and the machine is right. After all how can you argue this is what the machine said was the amount. Another factor is that this field is now full of new genius experts. While people like Dave not only lived this history they made it invariably some clever individual who 10 years ago had never seen a Schrade will attempt to disagree and voice opinions completly wrong for the sole purpose of advancing themselves to others also uninformed . Often they plagarise and claim the info as there own, If they continue to yell, lie and scream ( especially in this medium on the internet) eventually some will begin to question what is true and frankly I can understand not wanting to deal with these self seeking pseudo experts. That by the way is why a lot of people do not contribute. It is also why a museum to physically keep this true history alive is ( at least to me ) important.

People like Herman Williams and dave are of a past breed during a time when Henry Baer would call from Florida and say things like hey Dave I was out fishing for tarpon with Ted Williams today and he used a folding gaff pocket knife to bring in a fish he asked me why we did not make one of these see if you can work up a design for one for when I get back from Florida. So that is what they did .

They were already making 3 backspring knives at imperial and Ulster the third spring area was half a spring and a reverse beer can opener. Using that frame from the Ulster they put in a fullspring in that area and added a gaff. I am attaching pics of the Ulster Fish knife beer can opener several imperial versions and the Ulster Gaffer sold to Sears after that day of fishing with Baer and Ted Williams. The one in the pic is in the original box brand new it belonged to a 90 year old man who never used it and was sold by his kids when he died. The gaffer knife was short lived due to the fact that mostly only salt water fish can be legally gaffed in the US. I also am posting a knife done by Herman Williams one of his first Schrade Stags when he was selling the idea of Schrade reintroducing stag to there line. He recently told me it was the most detailed knife he had done and never did another like it.

Amazingly my book came out in 2001 it is still in print and can be purchased from Paladin Press or ordered through most book stores. I also sell them but really prefer not to. Just let me know. Thankyou for the inquiry and interest. LT PS Hope you make it east I also enjoy the physical study of good whiskey.

[PA Knives]

LT, In my latest book "Great Eastern Cutlery" the History of the Northfield and Tidioute Brands, I was fortunate to find a picture of an old master (he once worked at Walden too) using a tool called a "Fiddle Stick" this crude tool looks something like a bow for a fiddle and was used to cut the handle material for insertion of the shield. Using good old elbow grease, you worked the cutting head around a pattern laid on the handle material. It continually amazes me how something we take for granted was accomplished over a hundred years ago. I wouldn't be the least surprised though that you have one in your collection. The photo I have is tough to see, but if you have an original tool, you might post it for all to see. I have attached my photo for all as well.

That Razor case is GORGEOUS, when on the rare occasion I get to show off my 40 + year collection, I always save the Union Display Case for last and I tell the story of how you generously agreed to sell it to me. I know it was tough, but somehow I think it will end up in your museum again someday. I have attached a photo of it. I know I have shown it before, but truly it is the pride of my collection and a piece that I cherish, not only for what it is, but how it came to reside for a time with me. NOTICE how I said "for a time" because if something is truly a collectible, it will be so forever and pass from holder to holder for eternity.

[lt632ret]

The tool you refer to was am empty spool of thread with two sharpened attached at one end pieces of steel . Like two long steel sharp ice picks attached at one end stuck through a spool . the handle was behind a template and the sharp tool manipulated through the template cutting only the pattern. I do not have one of them I have seen many in fact I am enclosing a picture from the schrade collection showing old original tools which will show what I am talking about. Now this tools use really ended with Geo Schrades shield boring machine. I am including a pic from his book ( Geo Schrade the man and his accomplishments 1982.). A while back I was given a box with all the templates and some of the bits which were used on this very same machine. Unfortunately my quest for the machine as far as I could take it leads me to believe it was destroyed. I also over the years managed to get a prototype bit used for this purpose it has a flywheel kind of weight on the shaft a handle through the shaft to hold it steady and guide it one of the little rotating little cutting tit is broken off there were two used the same as the spool and steels. This is I believe a one of a kind and came from Henry Baers collection. As the story goes when George sold his interest in Schrade to his brothers he took his inventions and went off to europe to sell them first stop was England where he was stone walled. The English cuttlers felt that the machine would take away jobs so they protested the use of the shield borer. Now here is where my memory clouds ( and I have no idea where I originally found it to look it up. ) Apparently there was a handle material I believe it was Gutta Percha. ( a form of hard rubber ). Which they wanted to shield but because of the nature of the material was difficult to work with in making clean cuts by hand. obviously a shield must fit neatly this stuff chipped ect. So the English cutlers allowed the machine in originally only to be used on these . Once the machine which wasent a hell of a lot more sophisticated than hand tools or a bench press was installed is soon became used on all materials. Here are some pics. LT

[D.P. Hunter]

I don't know how I missed this thread, although I have been rather preoccupied with what I have been doing. I have been to LT's home before he built, while he was building, and then after he built the backyard museum. It is indeed a treasure and even more incredible than the pictures posted can depict. Rich has undertaken a real labor of love and I highly recommend that you visit his place if you have a chance.

Interestingly enough the building in Wawarsing which is slated to become the museum was built with a knife manufacturer's money at the behest of one of the wives to be the local school house. It was the Napanoch School house for many years.

The work that the Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum is undertaking is very important ~ both for the sake of preserving the tremendous slice of history that LT and his colleagues have passionately accumulated ~ and for the sake of Wawarsing which has become a disheveled little town since the departure of Imperial Schrade. It is hard to believe ~ driving through it today ~ that it has been a source for more than a century and a half of important american knife history along with LT's childhood neighborhood Walden ~ a scant half hour away.

I salute LT and his colleagues for the work they are doing!