Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

This forum is dedicated to the discussion and display of old knives. The rich history of all the many companies that made them through the early years will be found here as well as many fine examples of the cutlers art. Share pictures of your old knives and your knowledge here!
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by W5RWU »

Keep it coming LT , ::tu:: ::tu:: ::tu::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Chase »

LT,

Phenominal is all I can say!

I knew a big part of the demise of Schrade and I was also aware of what SMK Works did with the Schrade Collection, however, this has really been informative! I am extremely pleased with what you are doing with the Warwarsing Museum and I can't wait to get back up to New York and pay a visit. Thanks for all that you have done, are doing and will continue to do!

Respectfully,

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by knife-nut »

LT, this is one of the most interesting threads I've seen. I wish I could come and see the museum, but I don't think I'll be able to afford a trip there. I wish there was a way to take a virtual tour with our computer somehow. But PLEASE keep up your stories. Thanks, knife-nut. ::tu::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by PA Knives »

Mr. Langston you are my hero. I am in awe of what you have collected and the reasons for doing so. You have personally shown me great kindness (I will never forget where that Union Display came from) and I plan on making a tour of your facility in the near future. As a lover of vintage cutlery and the history associated with it, I raise my glass of Scotch to you (12 year old single malt please) and toast you with the utmost praise and admiration.

Thank You Sir for what you have done

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Thankyou Dave I am looking forward to your visit. LT PS if you recall when I parted with the razor display case I mentioned that these old items were rare and that I would have a job trying to fill its place in the collection . A year or two ago one of my affialiates in the historical society mentioned in passing that a friend of theres had seen a Schrade knife display case in an antique store while on a trip through the rural part of New Jersey near the Penn border. Now Schrade cases span 100 years and most are of the post 1970 era. Needless to say I have quite a few variations of these in fact I have representation right from the beginning ( early 1900's ) all the way through, it makes an interesting display to study and see how these display cases have changed through the years. when you come over I will show you a chronological group all filled with period pieces some still new unused original old stock. However the early ones with etched real glass and beautiful wood pre 1940 back to the 20tys teens and before are treasures and quite rare in a better economy I have seen the empty cases fetch over 2000 dollars. So needless to say when I heard of one sitting around only a hundred or two miles away . I contacted the store ( luckily my associate had the foresite to have gotten the tel number.) A verbal inquiry and description confirmed it was a 1920tys or thirtys version of achrade cut co.

So after taking out a second mortgage ( no just kidding ). In any event I proceeded to western New Jersey I went in and bought the Schrade case ( the owner moved not one cent from his original price ) he knew he had me once I had traveled all that way ) . Now with all that being said the reason I started this long winded diatribe . As I was leaving the store he said to me do you have any interest in razors I have some and I believe an old display case. GULP I casually said sure lets have a look. There was a 1922 Genco sheet steel display case with full markings . The funny thing is I already had a collection of Gencos and the original boxes the razors came in. This unit came with two boxes 6 each total 12 razors . So I am attaching a pic of the Schrade case now filled with antique automatics and the genco display with two original boxes inside 12 razors and the original Williams Hardware CO Clarksburg W Va 1922 catalogue advertisment. This is the display which I now have in lieu of the one you got. Not as rare but still knid of nice.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by tongueriver »

Well! I really don't know what to say; I just discovered this thread. Your contributions to the legacy of American cutlery is absolutely unparalleled, LT! Thank you so much! I come over here from time to time, but the posts come slowly so I don't come over from you-know-where very often. I hope you don't mind, but I am going to cut and paste every word you have ever posted on this website to a Word document that I can refer to from time to time. On my 60th birthday a few years ago my son sent me a one-handed Buck Alpha knife in a leather sheath that had some mushy stuff engraved on the blade. I was moved to tears and enthralled with the knife; I had never seen anything like that before. I had always had knives around as tools to fix stuff and butcher and so on. I had heard of ebay and somehow ended up there. However, I started looking at traditional knives that I had known over the years, mostly Schrades, and BAM! I added knives to tobacco, XXX, and whiskey. If people who know me know what I have in the basement they would deem it a problem. Well, my Schrades have been kinder to me than some of my friends have. haha. I got started too late to get very much of the really nice stuff, but I have some that really please me and I don't think that intervention or rehab is going to get ahold of me at this point. I and lots of other people hang on your every word, LT (why isn't Dave Swinden contributing?); don't you worry about the lack of audience. And when we are gone I am hoping this knowledge will endure somewhere. I have been trying to rationalize a trip to the NE US for some years (we are in WY), and along with friends in NH, the factories in Ellenville and in PA, and some geanealogical sites I want to see, I am now pretty much committed to getting out there, as your project is obviously the frosting on the cake. Thank you again! PS: Is your book on autos for sale by KnifeWorld? or where?
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Thankyou for your sentiments I appreciate knowing that others are involved with this study and find it worth remembering. Dave Swinden is really still quite active in the knife industry with Canal street. He also enjoys his family and what personal time he has. Then he also has to make time to keep me from pestering him with questions. He is amazing to watch I remember a knife issue which canal was making which involved some procedures that usually mean that the company goes out and buys a machine for thousands of dollars that performs the desired function. I saw Dave in a corner with a drill press attaching some kind of hand made wooden gizmo ( I am not a mechanical person ) which he had made. I asked him what it was for and he said that this was how they used to perform this function to knives before someone invented and patented a specific machine to do it. He had made the wooden gizmo from memory. Once upon a time there was an era when problems were approached with the mentality that you thought out what the problem was and then fixed or corrected it. Now the mentality is if something is broken you simply throw it away and buy a new one, nothing gets fixed it gets replaced. mechanics today attach a computer to a car to see what is wrong when a light comes on signifying something is wrong . Then it tells you what new parts to put in. That is called a repair . Now if that light is on no one even cares if the car seems to be running perfect it still will not pass inspection if that light is on. It is the same mentality you see when a kid checks you out at the supermarket and cannot give you the correct change of a dollar unless the cash register tells the amount of change. Then if the machine makes a mistake he will fight you to the death that you are wrong and the machine is right. After all how can you argue this is what the machine said was the amount. Another factor is that this field is now full of new genius experts. While people like Dave not only lived this history they made it invariably some clever individual who 10 years ago had never seen a Schrade will attempt to disagree and voice opinions completly wrong for the sole purpose of advancing themselves to others also uninformed . Often they plagarise and claim the info as there own, If they continue to yell, lie and scream ( especially in this medium on the internet) eventually some will begin to question what is true and frankly I can understand not wanting to deal with these self seeking pseudo experts. That by the way is why a lot of people do not contribute. It is also why a museum to physically keep this true history alive is ( at least to me ) important.

People like Herman Williams and dave are of a past breed during a time when Henry Baer would call from Florida and say things like hey Dave I was out fishing for tarpon with Ted Williams today and he used a folding gaff pocket knife to bring in a fish he asked me why we did not make one of these see if you can work up a design for one for when I get back from Florida. So that is what they did .

They were already making 3 backspring knives at imperial and Ulster the third spring area was half a spring and a reverse beer can opener. Using that frame from the Ulster they put in a fullspring in that area and added a gaff. I am attaching pics of the Ulster Fish knife beer can opener several imperial versions and the Ulster Gaffer sold to Sears after that day of fishing with Baer and Ted Williams. The one in the pic is in the original box brand new it belonged to a 90 year old man who never used it and was sold by his kids when he died. The gaffer knife was short lived due to the fact that mostly only salt water fish can be legally gaffed in the US. I also am posting a knife done by Herman Williams one of his first Schrade Stags when he was selling the idea of Schrade reintroducing stag to there line. He recently told me it was the most detailed knife he had done and never did another like it.

Amazingly my book came out in 2001 it is still in print and can be purchased from Paladin Press or ordered through most book stores. I also sell them but really prefer not to. Just let me know. Thankyou for the inquiry and interest. LT PS Hope you make it east I also enjoy the physical study of good whiskey.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by PA Knives »

LT, In my latest book "Great Eastern Cutlery" the History of the Northfield and Tidioute Brands, I was fortunate to find a picture of an old master (he once worked at Walden too) ::tu:: using a tool called a "Fiddle Stick" this crude tool looks something like a bow for a fiddle and was used to cut the handle material for insertion of the shield. Using good old elbow grease, you worked the cutting head around a pattern laid on the handle material. It continually amazes me how something we take for granted was accomplished over a hundred years ago. I wouldn't be the least surprised though that you have one in your collection. The photo I have is tough to see, but if you have an original tool, you might post it for all to see. ::nod:: I have attached my photo for all as well.

That Razor case is GORGEOUS, when on the rare occasion I get to show off my 40 + year collection, I always save the Union Display Case for last and I tell the story of how you generously agreed to sell it to me. I know it was tough, but somehow I think it will end up in your museum again someday. I have attached a photo of it. I know I have shown it before, but truly it is the pride of my collection and a piece that I cherish, not only for what it is, but how it came to reside for a time with me. NOTICE how I said "for a time" because if something is truly a collectible, it will be so forever and pass from holder to holder for eternity.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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The tool you refer to was am empty spool of thread with two sharpened attached at one end pieces of steel . Like two long steel sharp ice picks attached at one end stuck through a spool . the handle was behind a template and the sharp tool manipulated through the template cutting only the pattern. I do not have one of them I have seen many in fact I am enclosing a picture from the schrade collection showing old original tools which will show what I am talking about. Now this tools use really ended with Geo Schrades shield boring machine. I am including a pic from his book ( Geo Schrade the man and his accomplishments 1982.). A while back I was given a box with all the templates and some of the bits which were used on this very same machine. Unfortunately my quest for the machine as far as I could take it leads me to believe it was destroyed. I also over the years managed to get a prototype bit used for this purpose it has a flywheel kind of weight on the shaft a handle through the shaft to hold it steady and guide it one of the little rotating little cutting tit is broken off there were two used the same as the spool and steels. This is I believe a one of a kind and came from Henry Baers collection. As the story goes when George sold his interest in Schrade to his brothers he took his inventions and went off to europe to sell them first stop was England where he was stone walled. The English cuttlers felt that the machine would take away jobs so they protested the use of the shield borer. Now here is where my memory clouds ( and I have no idea where I originally found it to look it up. ) Apparently there was a handle material I believe it was Gutta Percha. ( a form of hard rubber ). Which they wanted to shield but because of the nature of the material was difficult to work with in making clean cuts by hand. obviously a shield must fit neatly this stuff chipped ect. So the English cutlers allowed the machine in originally only to be used on these . Once the machine which wasent a hell of a lot more sophisticated than hand tools or a bench press was installed is soon became used on all materials. Here are some pics. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by D.P. Hunter »

I don't know how I missed this thread, although I have been rather preoccupied with what I have been doing. I have been to LT's home before he built, while he was building, and then after he built the backyard museum. It is indeed a treasure and even more incredible than the pictures posted can depict. Rich has undertaken a real labor of love and I highly recommend that you visit his place if you have a chance.

Interestingly enough the building in Wawarsing which is slated to become the museum was built with a knife manufacturer's money at the behest of one of the wives to be the local school house. It was the Napanoch School house for many years.

The work that the Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum is undertaking is very important ~ both for the sake of preserving the tremendous slice of history that LT and his colleagues have passionately accumulated ~ and for the sake of Wawarsing which has become a disheveled little town since the departure of Imperial Schrade. It is hard to believe ~ driving through it today ~ that it has been a source for more than a century and a half of important american knife history along with LT's childhood neighborhood Walden ~ a scant half hour away.

I salute LT and his colleagues for the work they are doing!
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by tongueriver »

My membership is in the works, right after we get the new boiler installed and I get a look at my checking account. It has been tight around here lately. But I do have the form printed and ready to go!
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

PA Knives wrote:In my latest book "Great Eastern Cutlery" the History of the Northfield and Tidioute Brands, I was fortunate to find a picture of an old master (he once worked at Walden too) using a tool called a "Fiddle Stick" this crude tool looks something like a bow for a fiddle and was used to cut the handle material for insertion of the shield.
David, I posted some time back about the tool that was used. It is called a Parser, here is the link to the thread. Also, there is a link in that thread that shows Stan Shaw explaining the use of it. Check it out ::nod::


http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 89#p111789
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by oldblinddog »

There is a book with this thread (I hope)?
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Miller Bro's »

Here is a slightly better picture of the Shielding Parser in use by knife maker Graham Clayton circa 1988.

I found this in Simon Moore`s fine book.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by PA Knives »

GREAT photos, thank you. Although I have to say that I like the name "fiddle Stick" better, just because it sounds more antique. ::nod:: I guess I am old school ::tounge:: I would love to see one in action some day. I can see about 10 of these hanging on a wall in a lone CT town, waiting for the English Crafters to put them to use. Ahhhhh the romance of cutlery.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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Actually the only place around here that I know of with a few of these hanging around would be the Walden historical society about 3 miles down the road. Unfortunately the only time they are able to display and present a lot of the wonderful stuff that they have managed to collect over many years, is but a few days a year such as Walden day and a few holidays. They of course had a head start in collecting artifacts. They have been around many years still if you do get a chance to visit or are in the area on one of those days they do have many nice represenative items from there rich cutlery past. I know you are wondering why we have not joined forces, suffice if to say that it just never worked out. Still you can always give them a call and I believe they have a web site. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by orvet »

Great stuff to know LT! ::tu::
Here is a link to their web site: http://thewaldenhouse.org/

I found this page there amusing. A patch from from The Walden High School that features an open knife in the center of the patch.
It seems the good folks of Walden are proud of their cutlery heritage and rightfully so, IMHO.
http://www.adprose.org/waldenhouse/Hist ... teries.htm

If you scroll down this page you will find some pics of a talk LT gave to the Historical Society about the history of the knife industry in the Hudson Valley. I wish I could have been to that one.
http://www.adprose.org/waldenhouse/phot ... events.htm

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by edgy46 »

Video of parser being used. I do not have the ability to post a link, but if you go to the latest roundtable thread the last post by Smiling Knife has a link to a video of Trevor Ablett making a knife. To the right there is a list of other related videos. down this list is a video of a parser being used. Maybe someone can post a link. There are quite a few very interesting videos about knifemaking on this website. (youtube)
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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edgy46 wrote:Video of parser being used. I do not have the ability to post a link, but if you go to the latest roundtable thread the last post by Smiling Knife has a link to a video of Trevor Ablett making a knife. To the right there is a list of other related videos. down this list is a video of a parser being used. Maybe someone can post a link. There are quite a few very interesting videos about knifemaking on this website. (youtube)

My computer won't allow me to play the video to make sure I have it right but here is the link Edgy is referrring to...............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlF6OTED ... re=related

If someone will be so kind, please let me know if this link works for you.

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Yes indeed it worked fine thankyou. Also if you look back I had posted the pics of the templates used on the Geo Schrade machine and now the function of the proto tool I posted seems a bit more clear as i had mentioned one of the cutting tits is broken off the point of that tool but now its use is clearer. Thankyou LT.
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by Chase »

LT,

I wanted to publicly thank you for your hospitality and tour of your home and the temporary museum. My Mom and Uncle Harold were impressed, as was I. We thank you for taking the time to share your treasures with us and I look forward to a future visit when I have more time to spend discussing knives!

Fellow AAPKers

...I strongly encourage you to take the trek to Wallkill NY to visit the treasures that LT has and enjoy LT's company as well. He has a vast amount of knowledge and shares whatever he can!

Astounding is the word that comes to mind!

Thanks again

Tom
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by lt632ret »

Thanks Tom it was great to see you . I wish we would have had more time. Thinking over your visit there were many things that came to mind which we never got to perhapes next time. I am glad you found the experience enjoyable. Again to anyone with an interest give me a call and I will try to help set up a time for a visit. Feel free to email or call sometimes I am out of town usually at a poker table so please try to give me some time if possible. Actually Tom picked an excellant time to come over since I had just gotten back from Atlantic City the day before and I was particularly clean having taken a shower at the hotel and a bath at the tables. Strange thing about poker you can do everything right and still come out broke I guess that is why they call it gambling. As Jerry Reed used to say when your hot your hot when your not your not.

Perhapes I should sell some knives naaa not for a while but life is funny you never know. Actually I just bought a couple and another 1920 vintage Schrade display case. Could someone explain to me why while everything due to the economy seems to be going down in price, except the stuff that I buy which goes up. This display case which I do not have yet came from a small general store somewhere in Colorado I bought it at online auction from South Dakata. Can you imagine actually finding a small store like this and walking in to find one of these. I guess this happens I get emails and calls from people who find press button guardian models and all kinds of similar rare pieces they then usually tell me they paid 10 bucks to some little old lady who sold them the knife at a yard sale and then gave them a cup of tea and a piece of cake to go with it. Not me I pay through the nose. Oh well I guess a lot has to do with my demeaner, somewhat less than gentle look and beligerent attitude. In any event being on this subject got me thinking about an article I did several years ago about poker old artifacts, out of the way general stores ect. This was written in the fall of 2002. I called it The desert Legend . ( I used to write for a friend of mine gradus who used to publish a magazine called the AKA Automatic Knife Association ( switchblades ). I have added the attachments with this fictional tale. I thought this might add a little variation to my usual postings I hope you enjoy it and please consider stiopping in for a visit should you be in the area. LT
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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LT
Great tale ::tu::
An uncontrolled accumulator. ::shrug::
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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

Post by orvet »

LOL
Great story LT!

Maybe you have more in common with Hemingway than you thought. :wink:

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Re: Wawarsing Historical Society and Knife Museum

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LT, I hope you don't have TOO MUCH in common with Hemingway!
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