What make it a Bowie?

[ken98k]

Obviously a Bowie can be used as a hunting knife but, when does a hunting knife become a Bowie?
Is it blade length or blade shape? Or is it a combination of the two?

[jerryd6818]

Once again, the confoundry of knife history rears it's ugly head. Read this and make up your own mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowie_knife

[knife7knut]

A good question and one that has been asked since the word came into the English language. I would start with the more or less accepted definition of a clip point blade of at least 9.5 inches and a thickness of .250 inches.Added features would include a straight spine and a sharpened false edge of at least two inches long. From there it is all downhill(or uphill depending on your perspective) from there. Add a cross guard;stag scales(or wood or silver or gold);maybe a brass back and you're in business. A bit of an oversimplification perhaps.
We then introduce the so-called,"spear point" bowie;or is it a bowie? According to the accepted definition it is not;but then again it isn't an Arkansas Toothpick either if you take that definition literally. Most knives I have seen described as such have straight double edges coning to a needle point.
Is it a hunting knife? In the true sense of the word most ANY knife can be considered a,"hunting" knife if that is what it is used for. I remember reading a story of a hunter who used nothing but a Remington Bullet trapper to skin out everything he hunted.
Would a spear point be considered a fighting knife? Again that could apply to any knife.
In the end I guess it is a matter of semantics;call it a bowie if you like. Here are some examples of what has passed for bowie knives in the past;you decide if the description fits.
First is a representation of what is supposedly one of Jim Bowie's original knives. The knife it was copied from is owned by a gentleman named Bart Moore and supposedly it has documentation to prove it.
Second is another,"interpretation" of a Bowie by Carvel Hall with all the bells and whistles.
Third is a Chinese(I think)made copy of a Rambo Bowie.
Fourth is a picture of five "Bowie" knives. The top knife is a Rodgers spear point blade(9")from about 1880. Next is a 1950's era German made one by F.A. Bower. Third is a Fred James horsehead bowie made in the 1960's.Fred actually worked as a cutler for Wostenholm at one time.Fourth is a newly made knife by Silver Stag.Fifth is a massive bowie made of cable Damascus for Colt(probably China or Pakistan).
Fifth up is a series of four Bowies(actually 3;the bottom one is a Hubertus hunting dagger);two by R.J.Richter and one by Voos;all made in Germany in the 1960's or so.
Sixth may or may not be a bowie:it is a huge butcher style knife by Joseph Elliot with a handle made of rings of different types of wood alternating with brass spacers.Thought i'd throw that in to further confuse the issue.
Seventh and eighth are two handmade knives that came out of the same collection.One is stamped "L.J.M." and features a machined fuller down the middle of the blade and handle of Micarta and aluminum spacers with a cast aluminum guard and pommel held together with an Allen bolt. The second is even larger and unmarked with aluminum and brass handle spacers,guard,and pommel.Both are scary sharp.
Ninth is a new Ontario OSP-10 bowie with black finish.
Last is a knife designed by Tak Fukuta and produced by Parker(I believe).
Enjoy looking and decide what is what.

[jerryd6818]

So what are you saying Ray? Any huge fixed blade you want to call a Bowie, is a Bowie????

[leggo]

So would this be a bowie knife ? Made by Linder , Solingen Germany .

[knife7knut]

So what are you saying Ray? Any huge fixed blade you want to call a Bowie, is a Bowie????

Well Jerry if it fits the general idea of what a bowie is defined as in the Wikipedia article I suppose you could.I would classify the knife pictured as a "bowie hunter".Of the knives I pictured only three of them could actually be classified as a true Bowie,"style" knife:The Fred James horsehead;the Colt,and the Ontario SP-10. Not even the vintage Rodgers knife could be termed a true Bowie because it is a spear point.The others;although correctly shaped,are either not thick enough or wide enough to meet the cut(pun intended).

[Mumbleypeg]

Here's a picture of a "Bowie" knife that is in the Alamo museum. The knife is claimed to have belonged to Jesse Robinson, who fought under command of James Bowie in several battles for Texas independence. The guy holding the knife is British rocker Phil Collins who recently donated the knife, along with his extensive collection of Alamo memorabilia (valued at $15 million) to the state of Texas.

Note the knife's large size, the brass top on the blade, and the guard design - features not typical of a "hunting" knife.

http://www.expressnews.com/150years/lea ... 062689.php

Ken

[wlf]

Thanks Ken.

I see the Disney connection now. My son loved his Disney songs, and I do too. I like his music altogether. I'm really glad he's done this.

I wasn't allowed to read your link Ken,here's another,interesting read :

http://www.history.com/news/phil-collin ... -the-alamo

100 million to build the museum just to house his artifacts and he gets to be an Honorary Texan ?? Sounds expensive and cheap.

[gsmith7158]

In the immortal words of Crocodile Dundee "Now that's a knife".

[tongueriver]

It would appear that the definition is so diluted by now that it only has meaning within the context of our own preference. Bernard Levine has a definition that is very narrow and anything without would produce a serious sneer from him (which he is a master at). Some serious study by some very creditable sources have suggested that the "original" bowie carried and used in the sandbar fight by the man himself was most likely very close to a large (what we would call) butcher knife and bore little rememblance to anything attached to the term since that day. Meanwhile, on Ebay, the term (and also "fighting knife") refers to anything from a horse apple to a dump truck.

[knife7knut]

It would appear that the definition is so diluted by now that it only has meaning within the context of our own preference. Bernard Levine has a definition that is very narrow and anything without would produce a serious sneer from him (which he is a master at). Some serious study by some very creditable sources have suggested that the "original" bowie carried and used in the sandbar fight by the man himself was most likely very close to a large (what we would call) butcher knife and bore little resemblance to anything attached to the term since that day. Meanwhile, on Ebay, the term (and also "fighting knife") refers to anything from a horse apple to a dump truck.

Truer words are rarely spoken. I particularly enjoy your,"fighting knife" analogy;I may have to use that at some point in time(with your permission of course). I would also agree that BRL seems to take great pleasure in "honing his snide" to the nth degree.
Whatever the original source and design of the knife we call the bowie. no one can deny that it has definitely been an interesting journey viv-a-vis all the great(and sometimes not-so-great)interpretations.I guess we could call James and Rezin Bowie the Jim Parker of their day.

[1967redrider]

One thing I have learned since getting into knife collecting- a knife "is" what the maker says it is. Aren't there folding "Bowies" out there, maybe made by Parker?

Glad to read Phil Collins is making reparations for Ozzy's treatment of our National landmark. Or at least what Ozzy is rumored to have done to the Alamo.

[ken98k]

Thanks for all your replies.
It seems the classic definition (large heavy wide blade w/clip point and cross guard) has morphed into something quite different over the last hundred years. As hand guns have improved greatly since the days of the single shot, muzzle loading flintlock, the need for a mondo sized knife has diminished. While classic style Bowies are still available, it appears the most common pattern to use the Bowie name seems to be the general size and shape of a WWII Kabar.
Here are my "Bowies"

[FRJ]

Nice ones, Ken. I like that bottom smooth bone in the first picture.

[ken98k]

Nice ones, Ken. I like that bottom smooth bone in the first picture.

The Kabar at the top of the 1st photo is my favorite.

[FRJ]

[leggo]

In the immortal words of Crocodile Dundee "Now that's a knife".

Ha Ha that was the best line in the movie
Do you think it's a bowie or just a really big knife ?

[gsmith7158]

Leggo I would be the last person to ask that question of as I am not a fixed blade guy. I couldn't tell you whether it's abowie or not but it is certainly a whopper of a knife. Almost looks like a small sword.

[Quick Steel]

For a discussion of what makes a Bowie I cannot recommend too highly the writings of Bill Bagwell: Bowies, Big Knives and the Best of Battle Blades. Contains some little known performance characteristics of a true Bowie.

Product Details
Bowies, Big Knives, And The Best Of Battle BladesNov 1, 2000
by Bill Bagwell
Paperback
$34.00Prime

[terryl308]

I don't think there is any "hard and fast rules" as to what makes a "Bowie Knife" since all of the players are long dead. I was asked to make a customer a bowie a while back and said "what exactly do you want?" I managed to find a picture of what Jim Bowie supposedly used in the sand bar fight and it looked a lot like an over sized butcher knife, so that is what I made. Along with Jim Bowie, the knife shape and size are mostly today what people want it to be, a large, thick, clip point, and most have a double guard, and his history are mostly fiction based on a loose story from the memory of people long gone. I will send a photo of what I came up with, just a big a-- butcher knife, about 15" long and 1/4" thick, O-1 tool steel. Terry

[ken98k]

I don't think there is any "hard and fast rules" as to what makes a "Bowie Knife" since all of the players are long dead. I was asked to make a customer a bowie a while back and said "what exactly do you want?" I managed to find a picture of what Jim Bowie supposedly used in the sand bar fight and it looked a lot like an over sized butcher knife, so that is what I made. Along with Jim Bowie, the knife shape and size are mostly today what people want it to be, a large, thick, clip point, and most have a double guard, and his history are mostly fiction based on a loose story from the memory of people long gone. I will send a photo of what I came up with, just a big a-- butcher knife, about 15" long and 1/4" thick, O-1 tool steel. Terry

Nice! did you make the sheath also?

[terryl308]

Yes 98K, I make my own sheaths, self taught, couldn't find and saddle makers that wanted to screw with making a knife sheath, so bought some books and practice, practice, my first few were pretty crude, but after 16 years they are "passable" now I guess. Terry

[Dinadan]

Terry - that is a good looking knife and sheath. If I saw that at a gun show, I would not consider it a Bowie. But I suspect you are right in that it is closer to what Bowie carried than a lot of modern Bowies.

This has been an interesting discussion. I have wondered about the original knife that Jim Bowie carried: just what did it look like. Was it small enough to be good for skinning and general knife uses, or was it big enough to use for chopping wood? He probably carried different knives at different times of his life, too.

Here is one of my favorite interpretations. Supposedly it is based on a knife made in the 1840s in Baton Rouge.

[ken98k]

Terry - that is a good looking knife and sheath. If I saw that at a gun show, I would not consider it a Bowie. But I suspect you are right in that it is closer to what Bowie carried than a lot of modern Bowies.

This has been an interesting discussion. I have wondered about the original knife that Jim Bowie carried: just what did it look like. Was it small enough to be good for skinning and general knife uses, or was it big enough to use for chopping wood? He probably carried different knives at different times of his life, too.

Here is one of my favorite interpretations. Supposedly it is based on a knife made in the 1840s in Baton Rouge.

I love that blade!
I've got this one from EIG Cutlery, Solingen. 5 1/8" blade
Similar, but not nearly as pretty as yours.

[Cookyboy1]

My home made 8.5 "blade bowie .My first attempt at making one .