VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
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VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Here are some nice pics of my Cattaraugus King of the Woods in Ebony.
Please see more info about the knife below, at the bottom of the pictures.
By the way, i you have interest in adding this very nice and somewhat rare knife to your personal collection, shoot me a PM email and I'll get back with you.
MY RESEARCH ON THE “KING OF THE WOODS” FOLDING HUNTING KNIVES (Please feel free to correct any "misinformation" in my research...I appreciate any info you have that adds to this information).
The “KING OF THE WOODS” hunting knife was introduced as pattern number 12819, which contained no blade-locking device. The scales were made of jigged bone, thus the “9” at the end of the pattern number which designates Cattaraugus jigged bone scales. All of the “KING OF THE WOODS” knives were etched on the blade, but very few remain with the original delicate “KING OF THE WOODS” etching intact.
At some point, Cattaraugus installed a brass blade-locking device in the liner, and reissued the knife as the 12829. This transition may have initiated in the early 1930’s when Tint Champlin of Cattaraugus Cutlery filed a patent for a lock-back device on March 3, 1931, described as a “blade locking device” with drawings and description of the liner-lock that we see on the 12829 pattern. The patent and drawings were approved on April 5, 1932 (patent #1,852,400 - Here is a link to that patent:
http://www.google.fr/patents?id=IQ5aAAA ... &q&f=false
For some reason, the 12829’s are marked Patented July 2, 1906 on the liner release, yet I’m unable to find a patent or patent filing for this date. The redesign feature added a little more heft to the knife, and it was reported that far less hunters were losing fingers with the new lock-back feature )
The last of the “KING OF THE WOODS” knives was the 12839 pattern, where the manufacturer created a swing-guard attached to the blade by a pin passing through a hole in the tang, and they also moved the blade lock from the liner to the back of the knife.
Interestingly, this exact design of a blade locking device on a pocket knife was patented by John Case in 1906 (here is a link to that patent:
http://www.google.fr/patents?id=kQ5RAA ... &q&f=false
WHY THIS EBONY VERSION LOCK-BACK KNIFE IS "HARD-TO-FIND"
This may likely be quite a one-of-a-kind EBONY “KING OF THE WOODS”. Like the 12829, there is no swing guard, and it does not have a pin-hole where the swing-guard of the 12839 does. Yet it DOES have the style of the blade lock on the back of the knife just like the 12839 pattern. It also was fitted by Cattaraugus craftsman with solid EBONY scales. All the patterns for the King of the Woods that I've seen have jigged bone scales...execpt this one and one other I saw a picture of that has the swing-guard. There is NOT a pattern number anywhere on this knife. So how did this unique knife possibly come to exist?
Cattaraugus experts and collectors that I have consulted with concur that this is an authentic Cattaraugus “KING OF THE WOODS” in EBONY. The most likely speculation is that of the many skilled knife-makers (known as cutlers) employed at the Cattaraugus factory, some occasionally chose to customize personal knives for themselves or their friends using parts from the manufacturing supplies. If there were a pattern designation for this Ebony scale knife, it likely would have been "12826" or an early (possibly a prototype) "12836"
Note: Here’s how the Cattaraugus pattern numbering system works --- the “1” designates one blade, the “2” designates two bolsters, the two-digit model number would be “82” or “83” and the scales designated as “6” to indicate scales made of EBONY --- whereas the number “9” designates jigged bone scales.
Below is a link to information and pictures of the code numbers and the types of handle materials that Cattaraugus Cutlery manufactured their knives with:
https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/ca ... terial.php
SOME DETAILS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR POCKET KNIFE
This knife is about 9.3 inches long fully open, indicating that a professional polishing that a previous owner completed took the blade-length down a fraction of an inch. It absolutely gleams from shiny tip to tip, and the almost perfect EBONY scales have no cracks or hairlines. The shield emblem is superb. Snap is excellent. It has an almost imperceptible wobble that’s just about not worth mentioning. There are some tiny scratches and minimal light pitting on the blade, with some deeper scratches on the stamped tang of the blade than elsewhere…the tang was likely left less polished to preserve the Cattaraugus stamp, which is nicely legible except that a few letters that are worn off. Brass liner, clean as a whistle, with nickel silver bolsters. Hole was factory-drilled in the base of the blade for a ring or thong. When closed, the blade sits a little toward the left side of the center of the liner…and it opens and closes very nicely. The liner is really clean, no rust anywhere on the knife that I can see. The blade locks in tight as a drum. An expert pointed out that the “kick” on the tang appears ground a tiny bit to enable the blade to seat more properly in the case.
Several Cattaraugus collectors expressed to me how much they would like to own this knife...when I first showed it to my wife, she said, "Wow, it's heavy!"
Note: Because there appears to be no documentation in any knife collecting book about this unique pattern of knife, I am relying heavily on the speculation and conjecture of Cattaraugus knife experts that have graciously shared their opinions with me; I am a novice collector/researcher and probably know much less about knives than you do. I’m not an authority on Cattaraugus, yet consensus is that this knife is beautiful, and “the Real McCoy.”
Hope my research is accurate, and looking forward to hearing from you.
Please see more info about the knife below, at the bottom of the pictures.
By the way, i you have interest in adding this very nice and somewhat rare knife to your personal collection, shoot me a PM email and I'll get back with you.
MY RESEARCH ON THE “KING OF THE WOODS” FOLDING HUNTING KNIVES (Please feel free to correct any "misinformation" in my research...I appreciate any info you have that adds to this information).
The “KING OF THE WOODS” hunting knife was introduced as pattern number 12819, which contained no blade-locking device. The scales were made of jigged bone, thus the “9” at the end of the pattern number which designates Cattaraugus jigged bone scales. All of the “KING OF THE WOODS” knives were etched on the blade, but very few remain with the original delicate “KING OF THE WOODS” etching intact.
At some point, Cattaraugus installed a brass blade-locking device in the liner, and reissued the knife as the 12829. This transition may have initiated in the early 1930’s when Tint Champlin of Cattaraugus Cutlery filed a patent for a lock-back device on March 3, 1931, described as a “blade locking device” with drawings and description of the liner-lock that we see on the 12829 pattern. The patent and drawings were approved on April 5, 1932 (patent #1,852,400 - Here is a link to that patent:
http://www.google.fr/patents?id=IQ5aAAA ... &q&f=false
For some reason, the 12829’s are marked Patented July 2, 1906 on the liner release, yet I’m unable to find a patent or patent filing for this date. The redesign feature added a little more heft to the knife, and it was reported that far less hunters were losing fingers with the new lock-back feature )
The last of the “KING OF THE WOODS” knives was the 12839 pattern, where the manufacturer created a swing-guard attached to the blade by a pin passing through a hole in the tang, and they also moved the blade lock from the liner to the back of the knife.
Interestingly, this exact design of a blade locking device on a pocket knife was patented by John Case in 1906 (here is a link to that patent:
http://www.google.fr/patents?id=kQ5RAA ... &q&f=false
WHY THIS EBONY VERSION LOCK-BACK KNIFE IS "HARD-TO-FIND"
This may likely be quite a one-of-a-kind EBONY “KING OF THE WOODS”. Like the 12829, there is no swing guard, and it does not have a pin-hole where the swing-guard of the 12839 does. Yet it DOES have the style of the blade lock on the back of the knife just like the 12839 pattern. It also was fitted by Cattaraugus craftsman with solid EBONY scales. All the patterns for the King of the Woods that I've seen have jigged bone scales...execpt this one and one other I saw a picture of that has the swing-guard. There is NOT a pattern number anywhere on this knife. So how did this unique knife possibly come to exist?
Cattaraugus experts and collectors that I have consulted with concur that this is an authentic Cattaraugus “KING OF THE WOODS” in EBONY. The most likely speculation is that of the many skilled knife-makers (known as cutlers) employed at the Cattaraugus factory, some occasionally chose to customize personal knives for themselves or their friends using parts from the manufacturing supplies. If there were a pattern designation for this Ebony scale knife, it likely would have been "12826" or an early (possibly a prototype) "12836"
Note: Here’s how the Cattaraugus pattern numbering system works --- the “1” designates one blade, the “2” designates two bolsters, the two-digit model number would be “82” or “83” and the scales designated as “6” to indicate scales made of EBONY --- whereas the number “9” designates jigged bone scales.
Below is a link to information and pictures of the code numbers and the types of handle materials that Cattaraugus Cutlery manufactured their knives with:
https://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/ca ... terial.php
SOME DETAILS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR POCKET KNIFE
This knife is about 9.3 inches long fully open, indicating that a professional polishing that a previous owner completed took the blade-length down a fraction of an inch. It absolutely gleams from shiny tip to tip, and the almost perfect EBONY scales have no cracks or hairlines. The shield emblem is superb. Snap is excellent. It has an almost imperceptible wobble that’s just about not worth mentioning. There are some tiny scratches and minimal light pitting on the blade, with some deeper scratches on the stamped tang of the blade than elsewhere…the tang was likely left less polished to preserve the Cattaraugus stamp, which is nicely legible except that a few letters that are worn off. Brass liner, clean as a whistle, with nickel silver bolsters. Hole was factory-drilled in the base of the blade for a ring or thong. When closed, the blade sits a little toward the left side of the center of the liner…and it opens and closes very nicely. The liner is really clean, no rust anywhere on the knife that I can see. The blade locks in tight as a drum. An expert pointed out that the “kick” on the tang appears ground a tiny bit to enable the blade to seat more properly in the case.
Several Cattaraugus collectors expressed to me how much they would like to own this knife...when I first showed it to my wife, she said, "Wow, it's heavy!"
Note: Because there appears to be no documentation in any knife collecting book about this unique pattern of knife, I am relying heavily on the speculation and conjecture of Cattaraugus knife experts that have graciously shared their opinions with me; I am a novice collector/researcher and probably know much less about knives than you do. I’m not an authority on Cattaraugus, yet consensus is that this knife is beautiful, and “the Real McCoy.”
Hope my research is accurate, and looking forward to hearing from you.
- Owd Wullie
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Member of The West Texas Chapter Of Gun Ownin', Pickup Truck Drivin', Jingoistic, Right Wing, History Changin', Huge Carbon Footprint Leavin' Conspirators.
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Hi!
Several collectors emailed me, privately, that they were interested in adding this knife to their Cattaraugus collection. I decided to post it on the "big auction site," and created a minimum price that I would accept for it...that is what is meant by Reserve not Met. The Reserve Not Met will disappear when my minimum price is met, and sometimes rare items go above the minimum when a very collectable knife is available for purchase.
Again, thank you for your interest, and I hope this explains?
Several collectors emailed me, privately, that they were interested in adding this knife to their Cattaraugus collection. I decided to post it on the "big auction site," and created a minimum price that I would accept for it...that is what is meant by Reserve not Met. The Reserve Not Met will disappear when my minimum price is met, and sometimes rare items go above the minimum when a very collectable knife is available for purchase.
Again, thank you for your interest, and I hope this explains?
- johnnierotten
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
I believe He knows what "reserve not met" means.......He's just surprised that it hasn't been met yet with the amount thats been bid on it..The Reserve Not Met will disappear when my minimum price is met
johnnierotten
So far,So good...So What!!
So far,So good...So What!!
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Oh I got it. Thanks! I think that the uniqueness of this special knife to someone that collects KOTW's will merit a unique price. We'll see...
- Miller Bro's
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
To me, I believe the knife has been re-handled.
The wear and pitting on the blade is not consistent with the condition of the handles.
The whole knife has been polished and cleaned inside and out, usually a sign of repair work.
JMO
The wear and pitting on the blade is not consistent with the condition of the handles.
The whole knife has been polished and cleaned inside and out, usually a sign of repair work.
JMO
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
I'm certain you are right, it's been repaired, polished and cleaned. If so, the ebony scales could have been sanded and polished too...I did see another 12839, also without a stamp on the tang, with the swing guard that this one does not have, and its ebony scales were also in very good shape with an extremely worn original blade. Could be you are right and that both knives had the scales replaced with ebony...or maybe ebony is a harder wood...and wears better? Not sure if we will ever know the complete history...some collectors that are pretty familiar with Catt knives that I showed it to think the knife has factory scales. Appreciate your feedback!
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Here is the other one I found on AAPK with ebony scales with substantial wear, and the scales are still in nice shape...
- Miller Bro's
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Ellis,
The only reason I say they were replaced rather than sanded down is if you look where the scale meets the front bolster that groove is fairly deep. I believe if it was sanded down either the scale would be lower than the bolster or the groove would have been sanded down too and the groove would not be very deep. All the ones I have had the groove was not very deep to begin with. Also, yes Ebony is a pretty hard wood.
The other example you just posted has steel pins. It looks like your knife has a spun brass pin on the bottom. The old companies never used brass pins on Ebony. Mostly steel and nickle silver pins.
The only reason I say they were replaced rather than sanded down is if you look where the scale meets the front bolster that groove is fairly deep. I believe if it was sanded down either the scale would be lower than the bolster or the groove would have been sanded down too and the groove would not be very deep. All the ones I have had the groove was not very deep to begin with. Also, yes Ebony is a pretty hard wood.
The other example you just posted has steel pins. It looks like your knife has a spun brass pin on the bottom. The old companies never used brass pins on Ebony. Mostly steel and nickle silver pins.
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
I thank you sir for this excellent observation! I love learning more and more about knives from you. If you notice anything else, I'd love to hear more....it amazes me how much I have yet to learn
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Just had to look closer...the kotw that I posted appears to have steel or nickel/brass pins for the top two pins that are smaller, and the bottom pin, which is larger, appears to be brass.
- Miller Bro's
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
That is the one that bothers meellisrichman wrote:the bottom pin, which is larger, appears to be brass.
Glad to help, and I like your positive attitude about learning moreellisrichman wrote:I thank you sir for this excellent observation! I love learning more and more about knives from you. If you notice anything else, I'd love to hear more....it amazes me how much I have yet to learn
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- muskrat man
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
JMHO on the knife, coming from a repairman point of view. The brass pin while all others are nickel/steel tells me it is a replacement. I personally think the handles are original solely because of how well the shield is inletted. The whole knife has seen a lot of sanding and hand polishing. Refurbishing ebony handles is easily done, as is regrooving the front bolster (to keep proper handle-bolster transition both would need equal amounts of material removed thus removing or at least making the groove shallower). It's a nice knife, just not 100% original. Again, JMHO I'd of took the $300+ if I was you.
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- johnnierotten
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Yep.....real quick...I'd of took the $300+ if I was you.
johnnierotten
So far,So good...So What!!
So far,So good...So What!!
Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Well this knife belongs too me,,and the blade isnt really worn much at all,,if anything its pretty full. It just hasnt been ruined with a buffing wheel. And I assure you that its Original and hasnt been messed with.ellisrichman wrote:Here is the other one I found on AAPK with ebony scales with substantial wear, and the scales are still in nice shape...
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- johnnierotten
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Hello all, I really thank you for your comments. Just fyi, I placed the knife back on ebay at the price I think the knife is worth. Regards, Ellis
- johnnierotten
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
Well...you might should have went with the $300....
Good Luck!!
Good Luck!!
johnnierotten
So far,So good...So What!!
So far,So good...So What!!
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Re: VERY Cool Catt in EBONY
I apologize for what i wrote about your knife. It is indeed in wonderful original condition. I have a ton to learn about collecting, and appreciate all the experts opinions and the insights that I'm getting. Maybe somewhere there's a KOTW with ebony scales sitting in an attic that's never seen the light of day...would love to own that one
Best regards,
Ellis
Best regards,
Ellis