G. Ibberson advertising knife

[montemojo]

Any infomation appreciated, on the main blade front tang reads G. Ibbersonwith a violin over the lettering. Backside reads made in england. Small blade front side reads G. Ibberson & co. with a violin also. Backside reads hand forged. On the liner there's W30. It has carbon steel blades and peened pins. The handle scales are ivory

Ibberson ivory

[GerryD]

I think these advertising knives were made buy the shed load and then in most cases given away to customers or maybe at trade fairs. I have one for King George IV Whisky but I suspect they were made much later into the sixties. My example has carbon steel blades and simulated ivory scales.
Your example looks much better than mind!

[GerryD]

Just another thought some companies stamped the scales with the assemblers number but I thought these identifications were on the inside of the knife but still visible.
Gerry

[montemojo]

Hi Gerry thanks for the input, I put a loop on the scales and they seem to have a grain kind of like wood. The code was on the inside of the liner clearly visible reading W30 at the top of the liner where the blades retract into. I will try the hot needle test to see if the scale melts.
Again thanks,

Monte

[GerryD]

I've just looked on the inside of the scales and mine has a 34 and either a scratch or a type of signature!!!!
I wouldn't put the pin in myself though.

[montemojo]

Gerry, I cant find a good place to try the hot pin test. I used a 50x loop, it seemed to have a texture to it. I have a couple more that are supposed to be ivory. A bulldog warncliffe whittler and another sheffield that I have trouble seeing makers mark on the tang it looks to be quite old. I'll post after I'm done looking at them.
Thanks
Monte

[montemojo]

OK now, here's what I did. I pulled out a few knives.
Top to bottom:
1 Robeson pocketease
2 Ibberson OP knife
3 bulldog warncliffe
4 W. A. Co_ _ey sheffield

I took the 50x lighted loop looked at each. The Robeson seem to have lines in the color dark and light cream and slick looking. The Ibberson had dark and light cream color of lines yet less defined than the Robeson with a cotton like texture not found on the Robeson. The bulldog had light and darker lines almost couldn't tell the difference and had a cotton like texture similar to the Ibberson. The W.A. Co_ _ey had light and dark lines. Darker than all the others. With a cotton like texture. The Robeson's dark and light lines look totally different than the others.
Monte

Ivory or not

[kootenay joe]

Ivory can be difficult to identify with certainty, but not always. The appearance we see on the surface depends on the angle of the cut relative to long axis of the tusk and whether the ivory piece is from deep in the tusk or closer to the surface.
When you see a grain in which the lines are not perfectly parallel and areas of very irregular grain then you might be looking at ivory. Parallel lines indicates man made, so called "French Ivory" of which there were many types so of which are very ivory like.
I have 2 'ivory' Bulldog knives (Congress & Sowbelly) but i think it is 're-constituted ivory', made from ivory dust from cutting room floor mixed with an epoxy.
In these pics you can see how the Bulldog knives have handles that are not like the other knives shown here all of which have ivory handles.
kj

[montemojo]

Thanks Roland, so if I were to do a hot pin test to my bulldog it would likely melt into the scale because of the epoxy? The Robeson I looked at under the loop was slick with parallel lines I'm sure it is french ivory. The Ibberson looks like wood cut on an angle. The W. A. Co_ _ ley looks similar to ibberson just not cut on as much of an angle. I looked at them for about 30 minutes with the loops. The Robeson looked totally different than the others and the two sheffield knives were the most alike. I beleive the Ibberson is ivory. But I am uncertain of its age. Gerry's knife has similar tang stamps but not the same. I was hoping the W and the 30 inside the knife on the liner would help. Thanks
Monte

[montemojo]

I guess I could take them to the hometown jewlrey shop and they could verify wether its ivory or plastic.

[kootenay joe]

Monte, i would not rely on a jewler unless he has a specific interest in ivory. As for a 'hot pin test', i have never done it and so i cannot comment on what smell an ivory/epoxy mix would give off.
I use a 9x loupe. I have not seen a 50x loupe but i wonder if this higher magnification makes it harder for a non-expert to distinguish real from man made.
If you can get in-focus pictures of the handles with natural light and then crop the pic to just the knife and then enlarge to 200% or more and posted, people here might be able to say what it is.
kj

[montemojo]

Thanks KJ, all my pics so far have been taken with a smart phone. I will see what I can do. I dont think anyone does the pin test. I know I read it somewhere. I'm sure One of my freinds with a decent camera would not mind helping me. If the weather is good tomorow I'll get them posted.
Again thanks for all the help


Monte

[Miller Bro's]

Don't stick a hot pin in the handles!

Take the knife and on the back side where there is no printing rub the handle briskly then smell the handle if it has a chemical smell it is celluloid. Modern plastic usually will not create an odor, smooth bone and ivory create no odor unless burned, the point is you don't want to do a destructive test on those fine handles.

With experience you will be able to distinguish between all of them rather easily.

[montemojo]

Thanks Dimitri, I wont stick a hot pin to them. They are to nice and I have read about it but could never figure where one would do such things. I can get some better pictures up tomorrow. I'm lost with the ivory. I knew it was going to be a learning experience. Im going to rub the pile sides of a few tonight and see if can grasp on to what you and Roland are trying to teach me.
Thanks, and God bless all.

Monte

[kootenay joe]

Regarding pictures: i use a tripod, cheapo, under $20, and it holds the camera steady, which for sharp focus is necessary. Unless you have a camera with image stabilization, it makes a difference; tripod gets better pics than hand held.
kj

[montemojo]

ok, here is picture. i hope this will help

ivory

ivory

.

[kootenay joe]

closer cropping and bigger blow up(so it fills entire screen) would be better.
For me this is a hard one to tell and i have a few in this unsure category.
It could be ivory, nothing in the picture rules out ivory. But, nothing in the picture clinches it as ivory.
Try this: lay out the knife or knives you think might be ivory along with some celluloid handled knives, or Micarta. Lightly touch each one briefly. Ivory feels slightly cooler. I use the backs of my fingers for temperature testing.
I just did this with some of my known ivory knives and at the first instance of touch they are cooler. It takes just seconds for ivory to warm from your touch so it is first impression that counts.
I have an interest in ivory and i have a fair bit of it around but i am a novice as far as in depth knowledge of ivory goes.
I learn from reading what others have to say, so i hope there will be others posting here too.
kj

[montemojo]

Thanks for all your time Roland. I will follow your suggestions and keep on til I get it down. I took Dimitri's advive and did rub on my knives til about 2 this morning. I now know what celluloid smells like and have a blister on my thumb. I'm glad its my thumb and not the knife like the pin test would have done. I know its not celluloid it had no smell. The bulldog and the weidmanshell had an awful odor to them. My older cell knives had an odor also but wasn't as strong. By the way the bulldog and the weidmannsheil "I think thats the correct spelling" are out gassing
Thanks Monte

[Miller Bro's]

This is the best guide to identifying real or imitation ivory I have found and is easy to understand for the novice.

Read the entire thing don't skip any of it

https://www.realorrepro.com/article/Ivo ... -confusing

[kootenay joe]

Now i need to find a "black light". I have never heard of this before and "black" and "light" exist as opposites. maybe i bin in the bush too long ?
kj

[Miller Bro's]

Roland, you can get them just about anywhere. Walmart, Home depot, etc.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Scorpion-Mas ... lsrc=aw.ds

[montemojo]

Thanks Dimitri, the scales on the OP knife closely resemble the peice in fig. 19 of the article by Mark Chervenka. I plan to read it a couple more times. I will spend some time at the library reading some of the books mentioned in the article. I will try to do a little research in the area on the burnt chimney knives made on contract by boker. Just to add to the abundant information here at the AAPK. Mabe it will help some collectors in the future.

Monte