exatly what is the classics ?

[cbnutt]

guess i realy dont know what the story is on these ? i seen 2 knifes at the shepard hills here in town that said classic, i think one was a congress pattern , are they special runs, something good to buy that increases value down the road ?? thanks, james.........

[BIGHEAD]

well the Classic series made back in the early '90's were made by someone other than Case but commissioned by Case.The ones they have now are made by Case and are just some older patterns.
these in this link are newer made by Case.
http://www.caseknifeoutlet.com/families ... ics%202009

[Classic Case]

Here's a site with some info for you.
http://www.caseclassicsclub.com/

[Aimus Moses]

The Case Classic series knives are reproduction knives of the early 1900 era pattern knives made from 1990 - 1998. The ideal was they were made to let the average Joe be able to buy a reproduction of an early pattern knife of good quality that he could afford, as apposed to the price of an original Case Brothers, W.R. Case & Sons, and ect. knife. The majority of them were made by Queen Cutlery with Case Cutlery making 4 of the patterns in house at Case. The original good ideal of them being made was lost some where along the way by the greed of some people involved with them. The "business" behind them has nothing to do with their quality. They are top quality made knives. I personally do not think the post 1998 Case Classics are of the same quality as the pre 1998 Classics. The original Classics have the best of both worlds IMHO. They are good to collect, or they make good knives to use. Either way you will be satisfied with them.

Aimus

[deanmm56]

It is my understanding that all but 4 patterns of the Case Classics were made by Blue Grass Cutlery, not Queen Steel. There are a total of 37 different patterns and I don't know how many variations of each pattern were made. Quite a few were prototypes or salesman samples and marked accordingly just like Case did in the early days. As to the quality ...... great knives. If people would care to learn more about the Classic series I would suggest an investment of $12.00 annual dues for the Case Classic Club. A wealth of information and people willing to help. For a dollar a month you can't go wrong.

[wishful]

Dean is correct, Blue Grass.

[Classic Case]

Blue Grass didnt make knives,it is generally accepted that Queen made them for bluegrass.

[deanmm56]

I spent several hours at the Blue Grass Cutlery plant located in Manchester, Ohio discussing the Case Classic series with Mr. David Scott. Due to my conversations with Mr. Scott and all that I have read on the subject it is my impression that YES ... Blue Grass Cutlery did make these knives in Manchester, Ohio. If someone has resources that disprove this , please by all means post the information so I can learn from it.

[wishful]

Thank you for the good info Dean.

[gmusic]

I'm digging.....................this is a question that has haunted us for years.

[knifeaholic]

I spent several hours at the Blue Grass Cutlery plant located in Manchester, Ohio discussing the Case Classic series with Mr. David Scott. Due to my conversations with Mr. Scott and all that I have read on the subject it is my impression that YES ... Blue Grass Cutlery did make these knives in Manchester, Ohio. If someone has resources that disprove this , please by all means post the information so I can learn from it.

Did you actually see the knives being made at their plant? If so, that would clear up a lot of speculation.

If Bluegrass Cutlery has the in-house capability to make knives of that caliber, why aren't they continuing to make knives? I realize that they cannot use the Case trademarks any more, but they could still produce knives that collectors and users would like.

[deanmm56]

The building still stands with the equipment in place but due to a sagging economy, imports from everywhere, including China, hourly wage, productivity and the most important ..... the willingness of the American public to purchase the LEAST expensive products they can find, I'm afraid the knife making industry except for a few companies has went the way of the textile mills in North Carolina, the steel mills in Pennsylvania, the boot maker in Texas .... well you get my point. No I did not see anything being produced and Manchester, Ohio is pretty much a ghost town because of NO manufacturing. Which brings up another question ..... Blue Grass Cutlery made a series of Winchester knives ... bought some from David Scott while I was there, of course he showed me plenty of Case Classics as well .... none of them for sale. Oh, and the reproduction of the Case V 42 or is it the Case 42 V .... Devil's Brigade knife ..... made by none other than Blue Grass Cutlery.
So, were the Winchester series also fabricated by Queens ? Did Blue Grass Cutlery make anything ? I guess a call, email and letter to Mr. David Scott is in order.

Dean

[gmusic]

From what I understand Blue Grass is a knife company, much like A.G.Russell. They don't or have not made any of their own knives, they contract out the work and the knives are sold/marketed under their name.

Am I on the right course?

[Classic Case]

The whole thing is kinda one of those hush/hush things.No one seems to want to really give a straight answer on it.The general consenses on these boards are that bluegrass was as gary stated,just a company,and that queen made most of the classics.I dont have definitive proof to that effect,but if bluegrass actually made them,..then why all the smoke and mirrors?

[deanmm56]

Here's what I came up with on the good ole internet :


The Queen Knife Company Story - Shatt & Morgan


Queen Knife Company has made knives for many knife companies as well as many hardware stores including the Case Classics (for BlueGrass Cutlery & Parker Knives) and the Winchester reproductions. This tradition is known as "Contract cutlery," and goes all the way back to the Schatt & Morgan days.
A little history lesson:
The Schatt-Morgan Knife Company was formed in 1890 in Gowanda, New York, and moved to Titusville, PA in 1895 and soon thereafter grew to be the largest knife maker in the U.S. The firm continued at that location until it filed for bankruptcy in 1930. Queen Cutlery was founded in 1918, however, it did not become an official entity until 1922 - the Queen City Cutlery Company. In 1932, Queen purchased the assets of Schatt-Morgan and moved in. The companys current operations are still at that location. Robeson cutlery, founded in 1879 was purchased by the Ontario Knife Company, the sister company of Queen Cutlery, in 1971. All Queen products are made at the Titusville factory. Most other functions -- sales, customer service, accounting, etc. -- are located at the Ontario Knife Factory in Franklinville, NY, about two hours away.

Queen Cutlery's pocket knives have won awards from Blade Magazine, The American Blade Collectors Association and the National Knife Collectors Association.


A few companies that Queen has made knives for:
NOTE: This does not mean that the entire line of a company's knives were/are made by Queen - ie. Queen was/is not the sole manufacturer. For example, Parker now has the Bulldog Brand Knives made in Germany, but there were three patterns made in the U.S. by Queen.



Schatt & Morgan (In-house brand)
Robeson (In-house brand)
Old Hickory (In-house brand, 1970's)
Bluegrass Cutlery
Case Classics
Winchester Reproductions
Moore Maker (established 1985. Matador, Texas)
Marbles (Marbles Safety Axe Co.)
NorthWoods (Marbles)
Scagel (Marbles)
John Primble
Bowie Corp.
Chris Tenney - Tenney Trading Co.
A.G. Russell
Cripple Creek (Blackjack)
Family Tree Series For Parker - Kinfolks, Platts, Standard Knife Company, Crandall
Bulldog Brand
Bowen Knife Co (1970's-1980's)
Bob White Cutlery (1970's)
Sargent/Sarco
Voyles Cutlery (1970's)
Kabar
Swanner Cutlery - Fairfield, Ohio
Sampson
Canal Street Cutlery, Ellenville, NY.


Many thanks for the expert help goes to The Official Queen/Shatt & Morgan Forum at KnifeForums.com.

So, unless I find out otherwise, I stand corrected ..... until further information is unfolded ......

[gmusic]

This is the most excitement we have had in this forum in a year!

The "Case Classic" series is a great knife! True, there may have been liberties taken with the marketing program................but that does not diminish the quality and craftsmanship of the knives.

You see many companies offering 1 ofs and prototypes; and when a program as large and as ambitious as this one comes along, well.

Don't forget, this program span a period of 10 years. There are 36 or 37 patterns, dozens of handle materials, shields, tang stamps, blade shapes, etc. for each pattern, the combinations are nearly endless.

Take this one for example..............there may be three of them out there, and only one with these scales.

[deanmm56]

Gary,

Could you ship that particular knife to my residence so I can inspect it just a little closer .... I promise to give it back in er, about 100 years, LOL

Darn pretty knife ... and yes, you are right ... the Case Classic series are great pieces of workmanship. Whoever made them .... they took pride in doing so. Something that has long been forgotten by most of corporate America.

[Aimus Moses]

The building still stands with the equipment in place but due to a sagging economy, imports from everywhere, including China, hourly wage, productivity and the most important ..... the willingness of the American public to purchase the LEAST expensive products they can find, I'm afraid the knife making industry except for a few companies has went the way of the textile mills in North Carolina, the steel mills in Pennsylvania, the boot maker in Texas .... well you get my point. No I did not see anything being produced and Manchester, Ohio is pretty much a ghost town because of NO manufacturing. Which brings up another question ..... Blue Grass Cutlery made a series of Winchester knives ... bought some from David Scott while I was there, of course he showed me plenty of Case Classics as well .... none of them for sale. Oh, and the reproduction of the Case V 42 or is it the Case 42 V .... Devil's Brigade knife ..... made by none other than Blue Grass Cutlery.
So, were the Winchester series also fabricated by Queens ? Did Blue Grass Cutlery make anything ? I guess a call, email and letter to Mr. David Scott is in order.

Dean

To answer your question, yes, Queen makes most of the Winchester knives offered by Blue Grass Cutlery. Blue Grass Cutlery doesn't even make the John Primble brand of knives they offer. To my knowledge Blue Grass Cutlery doesn't make any knives period. Queen made the Case Classics and some of the Winchester knives. I know this to be fact because Queen Cutlery told me so when I spoke with them. Queen even went as far as to repair a Case Classic knife for me because I contacted Case Cutlery and they told me they do not claim the Classic series as a Case Cutlery product and for me to contact Queen Cutlery because THEY made the Classics. I personally think Queen Cutlery went above and beyond by repairing a knife that didn't even have their name on it but they made it, so they repaired it, 20 years after they made it. I don't know what you may have been told at Blue Grass Cutlery but contact Queen Cutlery and ask them about the Case Classic series and who made them. Also while your at it ask them about how many REAL prototypes, salesman samples, and 1 of ?(put your own number here) Classic knives were REALLY made and marked as such by them. Yes, there are a LOT of proto, salesman samples, and 1 or #? Classic knives marked that way but they all didn't come that way originally from Queen Cutlery. There's some other people who were involved with the Classic series that are etch pen happy with the Classic knives. You can see their results everyday on Feebay. If Blue Grass Cutlery makes knives they wouldn't have Queen making their Winchester brand now and have their John Primble brand contracted out. Queen isn't very hush, hush about the Case Classics, and neither is Case Cutlery when you ask about a repair on a Case Classic knife. Queen Cutlery made them and should be proud to say they did because they are good quality made knives. I'd be very interested in hearing the reply you get from Mr. Scott at Blue Grass Cutlery about the Case Classic knives. And just to keep everything straight, boxing up, putting a 1 year warranty paper in the box with the knives, and shipping them isn't considered making the knives. I mean you no ill will, nor nothing personal toward you Dean regarding this post. If I offened you, I apologize to you, you are not my target. This post is about the long drawn out questions of the Case Classic knives. It's about time for the B.S. to be stopped about the Case Classic series knives and who really made them. It's not like it's a matter of national security God's sake.

Aimus

[wishful]

Well put!

[gmusic]

Hello Aimus,

Please do something for me. When you have time maybe you could ask your friends at Queen Cutlery to revile the correct number of protos, SSs, and 1 ofs so we can clear this mystery up. I am very curious about this myself.

Thanks, Gary

[Aimus Moses]

Gary I did ask Queen Cutlery for a number when I spoke with them. A person at Queen told me no where close to as many as has been claimed to be made by other people involved with the series, and most definitely not as many as what's shown up on Feebay. The person at Queen said if we made that many proto, S.S., and 1 of's that are claimed to be, we would have had to run as many of those a day as we did the production knives. I asked for a guesstimate (is that a word?) on just the prototypes and the answer I got was "VERY FEW REAL ONE'S". I said that I had read somewhere about the amounts of proto, S.S., and 1 of's was hard to tell. The person at the other end of the phone laughed and said "I read Goldie Locks and the three bears but I don't believe it ever happened!". I was asked if I believed everything I read. I replied no, not everything, only the Bible for sure. Then I was told that I shouldn't believe everything that I read about the proto, S.S., and 1 of's. The person I spoke with said the number of proto, S.S, and 1 of's were over inflated just like their prices were in certain books, and the reason was greed for money. They continued by saying "you can believe what someone writes in a book, but I work where the Classics were made and I was working here when the Classics were made, so I know better, and the other people involved with them does too". That person said if I wanted a proto, S.S., or 1 of's Classic to get an etch pen and make one because they are still being pumped out everyday now.

Aimus

[deanmm56]

Aimus,

No offense taken in any form or fashion ..... as a collector I am just trying to learn. I will definitely pen that letter to Mr. Scott .... here's hoping i get a reply and please read my previous post as well.

Thanks,

Dean

[deanmm56]

Another viewpoint from a Case Collector :

As I understand it from personal conversations with David Scott, Blue Grass Cutlery produced the Classics under license from W.R. Case & Sons. This was granted when Jim Parker owned WRC. Blue Grass Cutlery manufactured ‘most’ of the bone scales that were used in the Classics with the only ‘original’ Rodgers jigging machine left in the states. The materials used for the celluloid’s/plastic/etc. scales were purchased as scrap from a totally different industry. David also told me that he purchased the Stag that was used.

According to David Scott, President of BGC, the WRC contract was for many patterns and BGC could sell them to any market should WRC failed to meet their obligation for any reason. See part of my correspondence with David Scott in the Winchester/Case article. The contract was for the first series of Classics – many patterns - and BGC paid WRC a royalty for each knife. When Jim lost WRC, he essentially became a distributor for BGC. In my conversations with David, he acknowledged Queen as a major player as well as another ‘un-named’ source. That in addition to the four patterns made at WRC. Keep in mind that WRC, like other cutlery companies, contracted knives from other manufacturers for many-many years.

On the side of most boxes used in the Classics, we read “BGC … Produced… “. I’ve also been told by David that BGC made the Classics. But if we look at the big picture, ‘made-to-order’(click) is pretty much the same as ‘produced’(click) which totally differs from saying WRC, Queen and the infamous Secret Squirrel ‘manufactured’(click). The question: “Is BGC the Secret Squirrel?”

It has always been a case of semantics, Dean. It can take a lot of one-on-one conversations to see a relationship. Keep up the quest, my friend!

[Aimus Moses]

Dean, I'm sorry if I sounded angered and offended you. That was not my intent and I apologize to you. I'm just so sick of people trying to keep the Case Classic series a big secret. As far as BGC putting handles on the Classic knives, they may have done the "PROTOTYPES, S.S., & 1 of's" exotic handled knives. I have a Case Classic knife that has Cocobolo wood handles on it. It's pattern number starts with a 7. It's not marked as a "Money" knife (proto, S.S. or 1 of) but I know it's not one of them "Money" knives and it did not come with those handles originally as a Case Classic. I do not take anything from the Case Classic knives. Everyone that owns one has a quality made knife. Mr. Levine gave the best advice about knives, read the knife, not what's written on it.

Aimus

[deanmm56]

Aimus,

Again, I took no offense in your posting. As a collector of Classics for just a few years I want to learn as much as possible concerning who made them, when , where and how. So, I'm searching for the truth, for with the truth you find out the real history of the knives. Through this one discussion I've learned a lot and thank all who took time to post.

Dean